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Obesity Paradox

yoda878
Posts: 902
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9/19/2012 8:32:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Most people that are thin with diabetes have type 1. which is more severe then type 2 where as you could possibly loose enough weight to cure T2. Type 1 is usually caused by other factors. Many surgeries can cause type 1 or you could just develop it.... The only way to cure type 1 diabetes is to get a pancreas transplant. So it really cant be compared because they are different, and a few of the type 2 people wouldn't even be sick if they lost weight.

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phantom
Posts: 6,774
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9/20/2012 12:21:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Fat people are happy! Happy people live longer! My hypothesis is valid.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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9/29/2012 5:29:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
you sure that's quite what it said?

I didn't look very far into it... but from the first little bit I read it said that Obese people WITH DIABETES had lower mortality rates than normal-weight people WITH DIABETES...

So..
AMONG THOSE WHO ALREADY HAVE DIABETES the fat people have lower mortality rates.

I don't think it said fat people are healthier in general.. or that the fat live longer...
I'm pretty sure the fat are much More likely to Get diabetes.. among other problems..
and pretty sure they don't live as long on average..

and, also.. I've heard that staying Near-starving (so long as you don't Actually begin starving) makes your body react such that it's more efficient... and those people tend to live longer.
Remember a study with rats... and stuff.. o.O
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
johnnyboy54
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9/29/2012 5:37:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Its because the protective flub makes us more resistant to impact. It provides padding.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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9/29/2012 5:53:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 5:29:46 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
you sure that's quite what it said?

I didn't look very far into it... but from the first little bit I read it said that Obese people WITH DIABETES had lower mortality rates than normal-weight people WITH DIABETES...

So..
AMONG THOSE WHO ALREADY HAVE DIABETES the fat people have lower mortality rates.

I don't think it said fat people are healthier in general.. or that the fat live longer...
I'm pretty sure the fat are much More likely to Get diabetes.. among other problems..
and pretty sure they don't live as long on average..

and, also.. I've heard that staying Near-starving (so long as you don't Actually begin starving) makes your body react such that it's more efficient... and those people tend to live longer.
Remember a study with rats... and stuff.. o.O

"Dr. Carl Lavie, medical director of cardiac rehabilitation and prevention at the John Ochsner Heart and Vascular Institute in New Orleans, was one of the first researchers to document the obesity paradox, among patients with heart failure in 2002. He spent more than a year trying to get a journal to publish his findings."

...

"But there were hints everywhere. One study found that heavier dialysis patients had a lower chance of dying than those whose were of normal weight or underweight. Overweight patients with coronary disease fared better than those who were thinner in another study; mild to severe obesity posed no additional mortality risks."

...

"In 2007, a study of 11,000 Canadians over more than a decade found that those who were overweight had the lowest chance of dying from any cause."

...yes, I'm pretty sure that's what it said.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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9/30/2012 12:59:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/29/2012 5:53:38 PM, Ren wrote:
"Dr. Carl Lavie, medical director of cardiac rehabilitation and prevention at the John Ochsner Heart and Vascular Institute in New Orleans, was one of the first researchers to document the obesity paradox, among patients with heart failure in 2002. He spent more than a year trying to get a journal to publish his findings."

...

"But there were hints everywhere. One study found that heavier dialysis patients had a lower chance of dying than those whose were of normal weight or underweight. Overweight patients with coronary disease fared better than those who were thinner in another study; mild to severe obesity posed no additional mortality risks."


In both the cases in which the study was explained just a little bit it said how it was dealing with Obese/thin people already identified as unhealthy

"In 2007, a study of 11,000 Canadians over more than a decade found that those who were overweight had the lowest chance of dying from any cause."

True, but then it goes on to say how BMI's are a bad way of assessing what someone's proper weight should be...

For example.. Junior year of high school I worked out every day and was on the track team to boot...
I went for my physical and my doctor showed me my placing on the BMI chart.. at 5'8" and 190lbs I was Right next to the "obese" category...
But I was in great lifting and Running shape, and had only a little bit of fat on me.

My doctor said that BMI's are all kind of wrong for assessing what someone should weigh, and that I needn't worry about it at all.

I would easily fall into the "overweight" category of the study.. Almost the obese category.. but at 190 No one would call me particularly pudgy or overweight Much less Obese! (This summer I dropped to 185 after a 2 weeks hiking and stuff in peru and everyone seemed worried that I looked so skinny.. Meanwhile 185 is Still Well-within the Overweight category for my height)

...yes, I'm pretty sure that's what it said.

It also suggested that many people think that the reason for this is the faulty standards by which some medical professionals and various studies come up with "standards" as to what constitutes being overweight.

Depends on your build, and general fitness.

If, Given your build, you're overweight.... Then that can help cause problems like diabetes and heart disease.
(sure the Fat might deal with heart disease better than others... :/ .... but Getting heart disease as a side effect of being a fatty isn't a good idea)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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9/30/2012 1:05:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I wonder if the studies showing that those people who fall into the "overweight" category are generally more healthy break it down by Men and Women..

From what I know BMI standards are More appropriate to be used as Generalizations for Women than for Men... as Women tend not to have as much percentage Muscle-mass... so if they're substantially above the norm it's probably mostly from extra fat.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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9/30/2012 1:10:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2012 12:59:32 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
(sure the Fat might deal with heart disease better than others... :/ .... but Getting heart disease as a side effect of being a fatty isn't a good idea)

Really before anything can be determined as to whether "fat people" even deal with heart disease better than skinny people do.. the standards as to what constitutes being overweight have to be legitimate...

so all these studies (if they rely on the BMI for sorting) are getting off on the wrong foot.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
emospongebob527
Posts: 790
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10/1/2012 8:15:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This isn't a paradox, it's a correlation without causation.
"not to toot my own horn (it aint need no tooin if u know what im saying), but my writings on "viciousness: the one true viture (fancy spelling for virtue)" and my poem "A poem I wrote about DDO" put me in a class of my damn own. im just an UNRECONGIZED geniuse" -bananafana
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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10/1/2012 8:53:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You don't see a lot of fat old people do you?
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s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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10/2/2012 11:12:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/19/2012 7:16:45 AM, Ren wrote:
Mortality rates are lower for those who are overweight. Being lean or skinny may be straight unhealthy.

http://www.nytimes.com...

Visceral fat has been found a greater indicator of disease than adiposity, and its deposition is facilitated by stress hormones, such as cortisol.
venumssi
Posts: 11
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10/5/2012 8:22:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Prevention is better than treatment for obesity. Most of the cases obesity prevent with good diet and healthy life style.
http://homeocares.com...
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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10/5/2012 12:32:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/5/2012 8:22:59 AM, venumssi wrote:
Prevention is better than treatment for obesity. Most of the cases obesity prevent with good diet and healthy life style.
http://homeocares.com...

How does this in anyway address the topic, "Obesity Paradox"? The New York Times article reported a study in which overweight people, who suffered from degenerative diseases, were less likely to die from the disease than those who were underweight.
venumssi
Posts: 11
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10/10/2012 4:40:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Being Fat or Lean is not the Main Criteria for being Healthy.With eating Sufficient Food,our Intake of food should be Protein,Calcium and Vitamins rich food & Every Day a walk of 30-45 mins and an Exercise of 30 min makes People Healthy. Eating Excess food and Exercising doesn't mean we are Healthy.

http://homeocares.com...
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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10/10/2012 9:43:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/10/2012 4:40:48 AM, venumssi wrote:
Being Fat or Lean is not the Main Criteria for being Healthy.With eating Sufficient Food,our Intake of food should be Protein,Calcium and Vitamins rich food & Every Day a walk of 30-45 mins and an Exercise of 30 min makes People Healthy. Eating Excess food and Exercising doesn't mean we are Healthy.

Sorry. I said the study compared the mortality rates of overweight people to that of underweight people. I re-read the article, and it doesn't say that, at all; in fact, the study compared the mortality rates of overweight and obese people to that of normal weight people and found that the overweight and obese were less likely to die from a degenerative disease than the normal weight people.

Health is not some magical combination of nutrients. Health is when an organism reaches homeostasis, considering not only that which you're taking in but, also, your body's reaction and accommodation to the chemicals, in the form of nutrients, your ingesting.

I believe stress leading to an excessive sympathetic response plays a greater role in sickness and disease than that which we put in our mouths.