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FREEDO + Salvia = ???

FREEDO
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3/15/2013 7:32:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Today is a day I have dreamed about.

I'm someone who talks an awful lot about perception of consciousness without ever taking a real psychedelic.

At some point tonight, my world may be turned inside out.

I can hardly contain my enthusiasm.

I will get back to you on the details.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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3/15/2013 7:42:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I've often been frustrated by the lack of rigorous attempt to explain the unexplainable psychedelic experience. I will attempt to go into more pure detail than has ever been done. If my way of words stand any match.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
lewis20
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3/15/2013 8:08:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I've not heard good things about Salvia, why not dmt or shrooms or something?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

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FREEDO
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3/15/2013 8:12:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 8:08:59 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I've not heard good things about Salvia, why not dmt or shrooms or something?

Because I don't have those.
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fnord
FREEDO
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3/15/2013 8:13:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Unfortunate news, I got all excited and it may not be tomorrow instead. The local smoke shop that sells it may close before I get there.
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fnord
imabench
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3/15/2013 8:54:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Im pretty sure the plot of the third "Hangover" movie is going to be based on what happens to Freedo....
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lannan13
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3/16/2013 1:13:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I you think that's far out there you should see my dreams.
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muzebreak
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3/16/2013 2:21:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 7:42:55 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I've often been frustrated by the lack of rigorous attempt to explain the unexplainable psychedelic experience. I will attempt to go into more pure detail than has ever been done. If my way of words stand any match.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
SarcasticIndeed
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3/16/2013 2:58:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/15/2013 7:59:59 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Oh god this is gonna be amazing.

Got me more thrilled than every movie trailer up to now.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
FREEDO
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3/16/2013 11:22:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Son of a motherless duck.

So...lets start off by saying that this was the weirdest thing that has ever happened to me in my life, that's for sure. I did smoke salvia. Craziness did ensue.

I should say first answer some questions I had most been wondering myself, before going into more detail.

Was it a terrifying experience?

No. I had told myself that I didn't care if this was the case. But, looking back, I'm pretty grateful for this. This is a big thing you think about, going into it. Will I be one of the ones to have those crazy scary trips? I half-assumed that it was going to be. Because I reacted very badly the first time I smoked weed. With salvia, I wasn't concerned in the least. And I'll get to why in a second.

Was it uncomfortable?

Yes. I was plagued by a different kind of negativity that made it very uncomfortable. Although I wasn't scared, I wasn't enjoying it. I attribute this entirely to the setting. I was with a rather large group of friends. Which is a mistake. Most people seek help from those around them while on salvia. As if they are a tie to reality. I was exactly the opposite. I felt like everyone was hostile, impatient and invading my trip, trying to take me away, both mentally and physically. This wasn't true at all, of course. They were just watching. They did talk a little though. And I wish they hadn't. It really messed with my head.

What was my emotional state, exactly?

This is going to sound really weird. But, for the most part, it was apathy. Which is completely not what I expected. The thing that surprised me the very most about my reaction is that I was so curious about it going in, yet once I started tripping, I didn't care about it in the slightest. Don't get me wrong. The trip was extremely intense, weird and interesting. But all my thoughts were focused on the people around me and not on what I was actually experiencing. Which is the exact opposite of normal. It surprised me. The whole thing was very surprising, really. Not what I expected at all.

-----

Ok, now. What happened? Timeline from start to finish.

1.
I sat down on the couch with my friends Bert and Ernie (names have been changed). They already smoked it without me a couple days ago and both had fun mild experiences. Bert became a dinosaur and Ernie started trying to find "Mr. Trump".

2.
Since I bought it and haven't gone yet, I go first. I take the water pipe. Ernie holds the bowl to pull it out when I say. I light it and give a big inhale. I sit up straight and look at the big brick fireplace in front of me.

3. First effects come on very quickly. My vision starts mutating in an easy to understand way. Just like waves and dips. They become more rapid and extreme. I exhale without thinking about it and begin laughing. Not hysterical laughter like some people have. Only up until a few second later when it makes the transition from easy to understand to impossible to understand.

4. At this point, I almost immediately dive into the strongest part of the trip. Now....oh, now....this is where it gets tricky. I did not trip in the traditional sense of hallucinating. Something crazier happened. I had been hoping to feel new dimensions of space, as many people report. That did not happen. But what did is just as extreme and it's something I hadn't thought about. You could say that it's a sort of synthenesia. Except that synthenesia is usually understood as mixing senses together. I'm not sure whether you could say that. It's more accurate to say that an entirely new sense appeared. Which is something I didn't think about happening at all. But it was like synthenesia in the sense that it was very closely related to sight (and also thought). I..in a sense...opened new eyes. I had my actual eyes open for most of the trip and I could see this other sight along with it and distinctly tell them apart, in the same way that touch is different from sight. My actual eyes didn't really see anything strange. I have this idea imagination should actually be considered a sense. Whenever you imagine something, you receive a vague but real perception of it. What salvia may have done to me is take that imaginary vision and make it 1000 times more real and tangible, so it seemed even more real than normal senses. And it really was thought...actualized. My thoughts had distinct shapes, color, movement and a sort of...storyline. I'll call this thought-vision.

5.
This is really the same step but I find it necessary to be separated here.
What did I see in this new thought-vision? Here's a really rough picture:
http://oi48.tinypic.com...
So....to explain what's going on there....Everything was a braid. I closed my eyes and leaned my head back. My mind kind of followed the movement. In normal perception, your mind has no shape. But salvia created a shape for it. It was a spiraling braid that moved backwards and to the left. It spiraled out of it's front and into it's back. However, there's also an element of contradiction here, as the shape of my perception is a completely distinct characteristic from the appearance of the thought-vision inside it. The thought vision moved opposite of the perception, curving into the braid. To complicate this even more....this can't be taken literally in normal vision terms. Because I saw all of the vision at once like a complete scope and scene. The curvature and movement did nothing to distort the completeness of it's appearance. I was thinking of a scene and my mind attached a highly tangible and strange visualization to it.
What I saw exactly is hard to explain as well. Much like the way it's seen, it seems to contradict. In the same way that you can have multiple distinct ideas in your head at once, I had multiple things in mine. Except that they were attached to the same shape. This seems to be because they come from a similar domain. These three distinct things were: a barn, a tractor and a farm. You can call this the barn-tractor-farm, since they have a connected persona.
Oddly, I don't think it was very important. And I hardly payed any attention to it.

6.
It's at this point my friends started talking and I felt invaded by them. I felt very rushed for some reason. I'm not sure if this happened during or before the barn-tractor-farm. A lot of people report extension of time. Even living an entire life time inside the trip. My friends, themselves, said they felt like it was dragging on forever. The exact opposite happened to me. The whole main trip seemed to go by much faster than it really did. There wasn't much time to think about it. And I didn't have the will to anyway. I think the barn-tractor-farm turned into something else, as if it was a part of a story. But I've forgotten it. In a lot of ways, it was like a dream where it easily starts slipping through your fingers once it's over.

7.
At first, I was sitting cross-legged. At some point I fell over, turned myself around backwards, hiding my face, and began making noises. Based on the noises, my friends thought I was in serious pain. But I wasn't. In fact, I don't think I was concerned with my body at all. I practically forgot it was there. I was too busy thinking about everything around me and what was going on in my head. I remember yelling very loudly for no reason. Later, I found out that it wasn't loud at all. Just a prolonged grunt or something. But it seemed very loud to me.

.....
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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3/16/2013 11:23:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Continuation....

8.
The strongest part is now over. It's still very intense but I have the first signs of coming down. I utter my first words "what the fuuuuuck???". This point was actually the most confusing part because it allowed my thinking to return coherently to analyze the situation. Confusion became my everything.

9.
At this point I start talking more. For some reason I have a strong desire to do so. It's attached with my feeling of being rushed. I can tell that my friends think I stopped tripping, now that I'm talking. I become upset with them for this because I know that I haven't. I don't remember what I said. My friends tell me I told them to shoosh. After doing so, Bert called me an assshole. Being called that didn't upset me, because I knew he was joking. That's just his kind of humor. But I was upset that he would say that while he knew I just took salvia.

10.
The main trip is now over. Thought-vision disappears. I begin trying to explain that I felt rushed. I don't think it came out right. Bert and Ernie do their hits. Nothing happens to Bert. Ernie stands up, jumps on the floor and starts yelling "I GET IT! I GET IT! GUYS, I GET IT NOW!! WE ARE THE TRIP! WE ARE THE TRIP, HAHAHAHA!! WE ARE THE TRIP!!! I'M GOING TO FIND THE TRUMP BERRIES!!!". For some reason, Mr. Trump turned into Trump berries.
At this point I'm taken over by a feeling that surprises me. I begin to suspect that Ernie slipped weed into the bowl with the salvia, as I feel stoned. But I then slowly realize that I feel too stoned for just one hit. This was surprising because I had repeatedly heard how "salvia is not legal weed!". Yet, after the initial trip, it felt exactly like being very stoned to me.

11.
My trip seems completely untypical from others. Others seem to trip wildly and then quickly snap back to normal. I did not snap back to normal. The stoned feeling took a good half n' hour to dull out. I was offered a hit of weed. I accepted. Again, surprisingly, this was a good choice. I had heard not to take weed with salvia. But I think it really helped my come-down. I'm not saying this will work for anyone else. It grounded me somehow. After some discussion about our experiences where I repeatedly state that I am still tripping, we walk outside. The other guys are completely normal. I'm still stoned. I step out in the sun. It was absolutely sublime experience. Now I began to laugh hysterically. Not the reflex laugh others report, where they can't stop. It was genuine laughter and it felt great.

12.
We go back inside. This is an odd step. Just as I think I'm coming down, I begin have hallucinations of lines, spots, static and auras all around the room. Sort of like when you look at a light and then look somewhere else. All the major objects left a mark on my sight like a light does.

13.
It's been a few hours now. I can't tell whether I'm still high from the one hit or if I am still being affected by the salvia. I'm inclined to say that it's the salvia. I truly to feel fundamentally different. I went to my favorite cafe, bought some food and played guitar. I entered an amazing mood that I still feel.

-----
What did I learn from this experience?

I definitely get the sense that there was subconscious meaning behind this trip. I don't think the barn-tractor-farm had any importance. It was just random. What I see my trip telling me is that I am completely at peace with myself....yet I have some sort of issue with other people. That rings deeply with my experience. Perhaps it's something I can work on.

This was a very humbling experience and I have a new appreciation for the difficulty in explaining it.

I have some left over. And I think I'll try it again...maybe later tonight.

Now taking Q&A.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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3/16/2013 11:59:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was originally planning on doing it again tonight but I'm giving it a second thought as I find it weird how long I've still felt high.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Skepsikyma
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3/17/2013 12:28:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Salvinorin A is an interesting chemical, though I'm more informed when it comes to alkaloids and don't know much about it aside from its modes of action and general strangeness.

I've always wondered what conscious parts of the brain do when deprived of sensory input during dissociation, and I'm disappointing that there isn't more research into what, precisely, the neurological activity consists of. I'd love to understand where those images came from.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Cermank
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3/17/2013 12:34:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is one the most amazing things I've heard on the net. The strangest thing is I can strongly relate to your 'braid-curve-vision-thought'. I think I've had dreams like that, but I am not sure. Will you do it alone the next time?
FREEDO
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3/17/2013 12:36:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/17/2013 12:34:50 AM, Cermank wrote:
This is one the most amazing things I've heard on the net. The strangest thing is I can strongly relate to your 'braid-curve-vision-thought'. I think I've had dreams like that, but I am not sure. Will you do it alone the next time?

Possibly. It's against the rules. But I think the feeling of people around me really hindered my focus on the experience.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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3/17/2013 1:10:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/17/2013 12:36:08 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/17/2013 12:34:50 AM, Cermank wrote:
This is one the most amazing things I've heard on the net. The strangest thing is I can strongly relate to your 'braid-curve-vision-thought'. I think I've had dreams like that, but I am not sure. Will you do it alone the next time?

Possibly. It's against the rules. But I think the feeling of people around me really hindered my focus on the experience.

Have you ever seen the film daredevil? He has a sensory depravation chamber in there, which is essentially a metal coffin with some water in it. I thought it would be interesting to try salvia or another hallucinogen in one.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
FREEDO
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3/17/2013 1:12:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/17/2013 1:10:23 AM, muzebreak wrote:
Have you ever seen the film daredevil? He has a sensory depravation chamber in there, which is essentially a metal coffin with some water in it. I thought it would be interesting to try salvia or another hallucinogen in one.

I've read a lot about them. I would definitely not suggest salvia in one. You could drown yourself. You have no idea what you're doing. DMT would probably be best. Isolation tanks are pretty good on their own though.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Buddamoose
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3/17/2013 1:15:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I did salvia a couple times, its okeh. Not anywherd near LSD/Acid, but deff a good middle ground thats still an intense trip
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
FREEDO
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3/17/2013 1:17:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/17/2013 1:15:26 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
I did salvia a couple times, its okeh. Not anywherd near LSD/Acid, but deff a good middle ground thats still an intense trip

It's different for everyone. Some people who have done many other things report it being the strongest. Others, like my friend, don't get much of anything. Some people have enjoyable experiences while others have terrible experiences. It's mysterious.

Care to share your own experiences? Are there any similarities you could draw with mine?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
muzebreak
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3/17/2013 1:19:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/17/2013 1:12:54 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/17/2013 1:10:23 AM, muzebreak wrote:
Have you ever seen the film daredevil? He has a sensory depravation chamber in there, which is essentially a metal coffin with some water in it. I thought it would be interesting to try salvia or another hallucinogen in one.

I've read a lot about them. I would definitely not suggest salvia in one. You could drown yourself. You have no idea what you're doing. DMT would probably be best. Isolation tanks are pretty good on their own though.

I see what you mean, though I didn't necessarily mean one with water. I'm jealous that you've tried an isolation tank. I've always thought it would be really interesting.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Buddamoose
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3/17/2013 1:20:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hallucinogenic drugs though, have never been a gateway to a religious or epiphenetic( real word check???) experience though. The whole thing about hallucinogenics is uhhh, ur hallucinating. Of course ur gonna hallucinate all kinds of crazy stuff. Like my conversation with a garden gnome about his life story. Just cause he said he met and talked to Jesus doesnt make it true XD
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
FREEDO
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3/17/2013 1:21:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/17/2013 1:19:16 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/17/2013 1:12:54 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/17/2013 1:10:23 AM, muzebreak wrote:
Have you ever seen the film daredevil? He has a sensory depravation chamber in there, which is essentially a metal coffin with some water in it. I thought it would be interesting to try salvia or another hallucinogen in one.

I've read a lot about them. I would definitely not suggest salvia in one. You could drown yourself. You have no idea what you're doing. DMT would probably be best. Isolation tanks are pretty good on their own though.

I see what you mean, though I didn't necessarily mean one with water. I'm jealous that you've tried an isolation tank. I've always thought it would be really interesting.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I tried one. I haven't. There's a public one in San Fran, which is near me, that I've been planning to go to.

When I said they were "pretty good on their own" I meant that people completely trip balls in them without taking any drugs.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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3/17/2013 1:23:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/17/2013 1:20:08 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
Hallucinogenic drugs though, have never been a gateway to a religious or epiphenetic( real word check???) experience though. The whole thing about hallucinogenics is uhhh, ur hallucinating. Of course ur gonna hallucinate all kinds of crazy stuff. Like my conversation with a garden gnome about his life story. Just cause he said he met and talked to Jesus doesnt make it true XD

I think that psychedelics provide the possibly for a lot more than hallucinations. Like my experience with salvia here. It had a lot more to do with changing my perception of consciousness.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
muzebreak
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3/17/2013 1:23:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/17/2013 1:17:24 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Care to share your own experiences? Are there any similarities you could draw with mine?

Iv tried salvia a couple times. The first time, I laughed uncontrollably and, according to my brother like Mickey Mouse, for 10 minutes straight. And I felt a strange pulling sensation near the base of my spine. And the other times, I just felt a high similar to weed. Iv never hallucinated from it, but I think that's because I only had 10x.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
muzebreak
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3/17/2013 1:25:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/17/2013 1:21:58 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/17/2013 1:19:16 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 3/17/2013 1:12:54 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/17/2013 1:10:23 AM, muzebreak wrote:
Have you ever seen the film daredevil? He has a sensory depravation chamber in there, which is essentially a metal coffin with some water in it. I thought it would be interesting to try salvia or another hallucinogen in one.

I've read a lot about them. I would definitely not suggest salvia in one. You could drown yourself. You have no idea what you're doing. DMT would probably be best. Isolation tanks are pretty good on their own though.

I see what you mean, though I didn't necessarily mean one with water. I'm jealous that you've tried an isolation tank. I've always thought it would be really interesting.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I tried one. I haven't. There's a public one in San Fran, which is near me, that I've been planning to go to.

When I said they were "pretty good on their own" I meant that people completely trip balls in them without taking any drugs.

Ah, we'll atleast I don't have to be jealous anymore.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.