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Nootropic Stacks

Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/12/2013 3:30:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Does anyone else here use nootropics? I've been using them for a while, and a recent modification to my regimen prompted me to share information with (and hopefully learn something from) all of you. Presently, I'm stacking these guys:

Piracetam (2 x 2.6g)
Choline (2 x 500mg Alpha GPC or L-Carnitine, once daily, and from assorted foods)
Omega-3 (1-2 horse pills daily, plus fish)
L-Theanine (2-3 x 200 mg, plus green tea)
Caffeine (occasionally, a cup or two of coffee or 1 200mg vivarin)
New: Phenylpiracetam (1 x 100mg, may replace piracetam)

Also thinking about adding an unspecified (because insufficiently thoroughly researched) dose of 5-HTP every day or two. If you have any suggestions, improvements, alternative strategies, etc., I would like to hear them. Also, post your stacks if you've got 'em.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/18/2013 1:25:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/12/2013 3:30:30 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Does anyone else here use nootropics? I've been using them for a while, and a recent modification to my regimen prompted me to share information with (and hopefully learn something from) all of you. Presently, I'm stacking these guys:

Piracetam (2 x 2.6g)
Choline (2 x 500mg Alpha GPC or L-Carnitine, once daily, and from assorted foods)
Omega-3 (1-2 horse pills daily, plus fish)
L-Theanine (2-3 x 200 mg, plus green tea)
Caffeine (occasionally, a cup or two of coffee or 1 200mg vivarin)
New: Phenylpiracetam (1 x 100mg, may replace piracetam)

Also thinking about adding an unspecified (because insufficiently thoroughly researched) dose of 5-HTP every day or two. If you have any suggestions, improvements, alternative strategies, etc., I would like to hear them. Also, post your stacks if you've got 'em.

I'd some advice regarding this... I've never considered doing it before.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/18/2013 3:40:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 1:25:33 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/12/2013 3:30:30 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Does anyone else here use nootropics? I've been using them for a while, and a recent modification to my regimen prompted me to share information with (and hopefully learn something from) all of you. Presently, I'm stacking these guys:

Piracetam (2 x 2.6g)
Choline (2 x 500mg Alpha GPC or L-Carnitine, once daily, and from assorted foods)
Omega-3 (1-2 horse pills daily, plus fish)
L-Theanine (2-3 x 200 mg, plus green tea)
Caffeine (occasionally, a cup or two of coffee or 1 200mg vivarin)
New: Phenylpiracetam (1 x 100mg, may replace piracetam)

Also thinking about adding an unspecified (because insufficiently thoroughly researched) dose of 5-HTP every day or two. If you have any suggestions, improvements, alternative strategies, etc., I would like to hear them. Also, post your stacks if you've got 'em.

I'd some advice regarding this... I've never considered doing it before.

It's not exactly formalized (so the technical research will have to be done personally), but browsing Longecity is usually pretty fruitful. They almost always have pretty comprehensive reviews and citations. Their conscientiousness has helped me a great deal.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/18/2013 7:53:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 3:40:39 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/18/2013 1:25:33 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/12/2013 3:30:30 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Does anyone else here use nootropics? I've been using them for a while, and a recent modification to my regimen prompted me to share information with (and hopefully learn something from) all of you. Presently, I'm stacking these guys:

Piracetam (2 x 2.6g)
Choline (2 x 500mg Alpha GPC or L-Carnitine, once daily, and from assorted foods)
Omega-3 (1-2 horse pills daily, plus fish)
L-Theanine (2-3 x 200 mg, plus green tea)
Caffeine (occasionally, a cup or two of coffee or 1 200mg vivarin)
New: Phenylpiracetam (1 x 100mg, may replace piracetam)

Also thinking about adding an unspecified (because insufficiently thoroughly researched) dose of 5-HTP every day or two. If you have any suggestions, improvements, alternative strategies, etc., I would like to hear them. Also, post your stacks if you've got 'em.

I'd some advice regarding this... I've never considered doing it before.

It's not exactly formalized (so the technical research will have to be done personally), but browsing Longecity is usually pretty fruitful. They almost always have pretty comprehensive reviews and citations. Their conscientiousness has helped me a great deal.

You're joking, right?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/19/2013 4:27:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/18/2013 7:53:13 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/18/2013 3:40:39 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/18/2013 1:25:33 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'd some advice regarding this... I've never considered doing it before.

It's not exactly formalized (so the technical research will have to be done personally), but browsing Longecity is usually pretty fruitful. They almost always have pretty comprehensive reviews and citations. Their conscientiousness has helped me a great deal.

You're joking, right?

I am not. I am not suggesting that you conduct your own battery of clinical trials, but that there is a whole pool of research with which you should acquire at least a cursory familiarity. I am not a neuroscientist, or a pharmacologist, but this has not stopped me from studying some of the terminology, from researching certain structures (particularly as relates to the pharmacokinetics/dynamics of the drug I am considering), and from assimilating this for future use. If ever there were an imperative I could support, it might be "Study."
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/19/2013 4:28:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 4:27:02 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/18/2013 7:53:13 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/18/2013 3:40:39 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/18/2013 1:25:33 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'd some advice regarding this... I've never considered doing it before.

It's not exactly formalized (so the technical research will have to be done personally), but browsing Longecity is usually pretty fruitful. They almost always have pretty comprehensive reviews and citations. Their conscientiousness has helped me a great deal.

You're joking, right?

I am not. I am not suggesting that you conduct your own battery of clinical trials, but that there is a whole pool of research with which you should acquire at least a cursory familiarity. I am not a neuroscientist, or a pharmacologist, but this has not stopped me from studying some of the terminology, from researching certain structures (particularly as relates to the pharmacokinetics/dynamics of the drug I am considering), and from assimilating this for future use. If ever there were an imperative I could support, it might be "Study."

Oh please. I can't even begin to grasp what I would do.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/19/2013 4:37:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 4:28:18 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/19/2013 4:27:02 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/18/2013 7:53:13 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/18/2013 3:40:39 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/18/2013 1:25:33 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'd some advice regarding this... I've never considered doing it before.

It's not exactly formalized (so the technical research will have to be done personally), but browsing Longecity is usually pretty fruitful. They almost always have pretty comprehensive reviews and citations. Their conscientiousness has helped me a great deal.

You're joking, right?

I am not. I am not suggesting that you conduct your own battery of clinical trials, but that there is a whole pool of research with which you should acquire at least a cursory familiarity. I am not a neuroscientist, or a pharmacologist, but this has not stopped me from studying some of the terminology, from researching certain structures (particularly as relates to the pharmacokinetics/dynamics of the drug I am considering), and from assimilating this for future use. If ever there were an imperative I could support, it might be "Study."

Oh please. I can't even begin to grasp what I would do.

Well, that's probably for the best. If you thought you had a method for studying something about which (and the conceptual layout of which) you knew nothing, it would probably be an unfruitful bunch of reading. I think you might start from the center, though--take piracetam. As you read about its function, its mechanisms of action, the studies done over it, etc., just start researching everything you don't understand--if you don't know what an allosteric modular is, for example, or what an AMPA receptor is, you have points of ignorance which only research can hope to rectify.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/20/2013 9:15:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Alpha brain, vivid, lucid dreams every night
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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11/21/2013 8:58:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think that if you take nootropics and aren't trying to deal with a serious mental disorder of some sort, you are an idiot for opening yourself up to all sorts of potential problems.

Firstly, piracetam. That stuff can be addictive and has ruined lives. Google "Isochroma," and have fun spending the rest of the day reading his delusional, manic, piracetam-fueled threads that span THREE YEARS over several forums.

Then you have Xenix's sad story:

http://www.longecity.org...

Longecity has some really intelligent people, but most of these are those who are trying to solve REAL disorders that modern medicine has failed to treat. The rest of the community is a bunch of self-destructive fools. I'm talking mostly about those who promote "nootropic stacks."

I believe that if you are taking a nootropic stack, you are a moron and need to find something better to do with yourself, like asking yourself some honest, hard questions about why the hell you are consuming so many drugs on a regular basis and what are you trying to achieve? Is it worth the risk? Do you think these drugs are safer just because they are legal?
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/25/2013 4:00:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/21/2013 8:58:50 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
I think that if you take nootropics and aren't trying to deal with a serious mental disorder of some sort, you are an idiot for opening yourself up to all sorts of potential problems.

Firstly, piracetam. That stuff can be addictive and has ruined lives. Google "Isochroma," and have fun spending the rest of the day reading his delusional, manic, piracetam-fueled threads that span THREE YEARS over several forums.

Then you have Xenix's sad story:

http://www.longecity.org...

Longecity has some really intelligent people, but most of these are those who are trying to solve REAL disorders that modern medicine has failed to treat. The rest of the community is a bunch of self-destructive fools. I'm talking mostly about those who promote "nootropic stacks."

I believe that if you are taking a nootropic stack, you are a moron and need to find something better to do with yourself, like asking yourself some honest, hard questions about why the hell you are consuming so many drugs on a regular basis and what are you trying to achieve? Is it worth the risk? Do you think these drugs are safer just because they are legal?

Seems to work fine for me. And I am willing to accept whatever risks might ensue (the chronic mega-dosing of Xenix and Isochroma notwithstanding). I know precisely why I take all of these things--for me, it's a question of power, of being able to push the limit of my cognition. It's interesting, in that way, because I'm not just taking "a bunch of drugs"--Omega-3 is an essential fatty acid, L-theanine is an amino acid in green tea, caffeine is an infrequently-dosed stimulant (which, in moderate doses, is not harmful), and acetylcholine is an important neurotransmitter. I think substituting insults like "idiot" and "fool", the pejorative use of the word "drugs", and a couple of online horror stories (which, all things considered, I do not take to be that horrifying) for conscientious research can only lead you to misunderstand what is at stake in these regimens.
zenpit
Posts: 4
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12/3/2013 2:16:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
First of all: Piracetam, nor any Racetam, is chemically/physically/psychologically addictive. There has been many clinical tests, most double blind, that have proven this. Isochroma, whom I am very familiar with, had mental issues before taking nootropics and was taking absurd amounts well outside of the dosing range.

If you are going to make a nootropic stack, the first question you should ask yourself is "What am I trying to accomplish with this stack?" Many nootropics have varying benefits and you should thoroughly research each item before putting a stack together. Also as a beginner into the nootropics world I would recommend a simple Piracetam stack and build on it as you become more certain about what you would like to get out of the stack as a whole.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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1/24/2014 2:09:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Two promising new drugs with which I've been considering experimenting:

PRL-8-53: technically, I have no idea how it works, only that it works, and very well, on improving memory. It seems to have a relatively high LD50 (almost kilogram-for-kilogram in rat studies), though there are reports of physical sluggishness following mega-doses (which I tend regardless to stay away from), and, for whatever reason, seems to have cumulative positive effects on recall (though, scientifically speaking, I can find only one study on PubMed for the drug, and it dates to 1978; to its credit, it was at least double-blind and placebo-controlled)--in the study, there wasn't significant improvement in the following hours during which the original evaluation was conducted, but, days later, there was rapid growth (and, interestingly, the demographics displaying the most intense improvement were the group which initially performed the worst and those over thirty), with nearly 100% gains for many by week's end. As far as I can find, responsible use carries no deleterious side effects or contraindications.

NSI-189: Same principle--improvement of memory--except the mechanism of action is more thoroughly understood. It's the pioneer of a class of drugs called neurogeneratives, which, as one with even rudimentary etymological competence could discern, operates by wide stimulation of neurogenesis (the process by which fresh new neurons are birthed); in rat studies, regular dosing resulted in a 20% improvement in hippocampal volume (the drug itself was synthesized to test the hypothesis that hippocampal decay was a cause or precursor to, as well as consequence of, major depression, and that reversing this neural atrophy could offer a cure outside the realm of e.g., SSRIs)--as far as I know, Phase I clinical trials are complete (or at least through 1b), and, so far, there are no observed harms in human patients. I have also read over non-clinical reports (e.g., records kept after large group purchases), and initial reports are very inspiring.
briangle
Posts: 1
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2/4/2014 10:07:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/21/2013 8:58:50 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
I think that if you take nootropics and aren't trying to deal with a serious mental disorder of some sort, you are an idiot for opening yourself up to all sorts of potential problems.

wow, start off by calling people you disagree with idiots...
Firstly, piracetam. That stuff can be addictive and has ruined lives. Google "Isochroma," and have fun spending the rest of the day reading his delusional, manic, piracetam-fueled threads that span THREE YEARS over several forums.

and then hyperbole supported by a single anecdote...

Then you have Xenix's sad story:

http://www.longecity.org...

oh make that 2 anecdotes....

Longecity has some really intelligent people, but most of these are those who are trying to solve REAL disorders that modern medicine has failed to treat. The rest of the community is a bunch of self-destructive fools. I'm talking mostly about those who promote "nootropic stacks."

I believe that if you are taking a nootropic stack, you are a moron and need to find something better to do with yourself, like asking yourself some honest, hard questions about why the hell you are consuming so many drugs on a regular basis and what are you trying to achieve? Is it worth the risk? Do you think these drugs are safer just because they are legal?
i think you are a moron from this post, but it's ok - i am fluent in moron and think i get the point you were trying to make - that drugs should only be for disorders, rather than for improving an already healthy subject. the problem is, you provide no real logic to back this up - 2 anecdotes and mention of 'tons of problems.'
never mind the 100s of academic studies, the definition of nootropics generally including Low Side Effects, and the fact that your entire argument is terrible...
unless it was meant to waste my time, in which case - bravo.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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2/4/2014 10:25:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 10:07:59 PM, briangle wrote:
At 11/21/2013 8:58:50 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
I think that if you take nootropics and aren't trying to deal with a serious mental disorder of some sort, you are an idiot for opening yourself up to all sorts of potential problems.

wow, start off by calling people you disagree with idiots...
Firstly, piracetam. That stuff can be addictive and has ruined lives. Google "Isochroma," and have fun spending the rest of the day reading his delusional, manic, piracetam-fueled threads that span THREE YEARS over several forums.

and then hyperbole supported by a single anecdote...

Then you have Xenix's sad story:

http://www.longecity.org...

oh make that 2 anecdotes....

Longecity has some really intelligent people, but most of these are those who are trying to solve REAL disorders that modern medicine has failed to treat. The rest of the community is a bunch of self-destructive fools. I'm talking mostly about those who promote "nootropic stacks."

I believe that if you are taking a nootropic stack, you are a moron and need to find something better to do with yourself, like asking yourself some honest, hard questions about why the hell you are consuming so many drugs on a regular basis and what are you trying to achieve? Is it worth the risk? Do you think these drugs are safer just because they are legal?
i think you are a moron from this post, but it's ok - i am fluent in moron and think i get the point you were trying to make - that drugs should only be for disorders, rather than for improving an already healthy subject. the problem is, you provide no real logic to back this up - 2 anecdotes and mention of 'tons of problems.'
never mind the 100s of academic studies, the definition of nootropics generally including Low Side Effects, and the fact that your entire argument is terrible...
unless it was meant to waste my time, in which case - bravo.


My position is that the benefits do not outweigh the risks when you do not have a serious disorder that you are trying to treat.

My own experience has demonstrated that "100s of academic studies" do not mean jack sh!t when determining the safety profile of a drug. I'll bet there are far more studies on the dangers of Heroin abuse, and very little on the dangers of SSRIs that are taken according to doctor's orders... yet, SSRIs cause far more painful and longer-lasting harm than Heroin is even capable of.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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2/4/2014 10:28:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And if you think anecdotal evidence is not valid when evaluating drugs, then have fun browsing pubmed.com to find answers to your nootropic questions, since any answers from people who have personal experience with your drugs don't have valid information.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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zenpit
Posts: 4
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4/22/2014 7:08:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 10:28:33 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
And if you think anecdotal evidence is not valid when evaluating drugs, then have fun browsing pubmed.com to find answers to your nootropic questions, since any answers from people who have personal experience with your drugs don't have valid information.

I personally think that anecdotal experiences are almost if not more important than clinical evaluations of drugs. I honestly wish that they would have the clinical participants write out their anecdotal experiences /during/ said experiments to get a better idea of the overall outcome of the testing.

And when it comes to Nootropics you are going to do a lot of digging in libraries, and the internet to figure out more about them. I won't sit here and say they are bad though, Piracetam has never caused me any negative effects even when doing a mega-dose. I've only read one report of a negative experience from nootropics and it was from someone with preexisting conditions that was taking high doses of every thing his stack was comprised on.

I'd rather get anecdotal reviews from people taking the recommended amount, than those "pioneers" that decided "Hey what's 50 g of Phenylpiracetam feel like??". Not that those aren't fun to read, but I find that they aren't a grand representation of how a typical dose of a nootropic feels.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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4/22/2014 7:19:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:08:33 PM, zenpit wrote:
I personally think that anecdotal experiences are almost if not more important than clinical evaluations of drugs. I honestly wish that they would have the clinical participants write out their anecdotal experiences /during/ said experiments to get a better idea of the overall outcome of the testing.

I agree. For the record, I've never been harmed by nootropics. I have, however, been harmed by legitimate prescription.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
zenpit
Posts: 4
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4/22/2014 7:40:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:19:46 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 4/22/2014 7:08:33 PM, zenpit wrote:
I personally think that anecdotal experiences are almost if not more important than clinical evaluations of drugs. I honestly wish that they would have the clinical participants write out their anecdotal experiences /during/ said experiments to get a better idea of the overall outcome of the testing.

I agree. For the record, I've never been harmed by nootropics. I have, however, been harmed by legitimate prescription.

I've had my unfortunate incidents with prescription drugs hence the zealot like approach I'm taking towards nootropics and other drugs that big govt doesn't have its greedy paws on.. >.> <.< :D

What nootropics are you currently taking mate?
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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4/22/2014 8:04:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:40:02 PM, zenpit wrote:
At 4/22/2014 7:19:46 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 4/22/2014 7:08:33 PM, zenpit wrote:
I personally think that anecdotal experiences are almost if not more important than clinical evaluations of drugs. I honestly wish that they would have the clinical participants write out their anecdotal experiences /during/ said experiments to get a better idea of the overall outcome of the testing.

I agree. For the record, I've never been harmed by nootropics. I have, however, been harmed by legitimate prescription.


I've had my unfortunate incidents with prescription drugs hence the zealot like approach I'm taking towards nootropics and other drugs that big govt doesn't have its greedy paws on.. >.> <.< :D

What nootropics are you currently taking mate?

None. I've taken piracetam before but that was it.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
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zenpit
Posts: 4
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4/22/2014 8:13:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 8:04:51 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:


None. I've taken piracetam before but that was it.

Oh wow. I've taken quite a few, any reason why you stopped with Piracetam?