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Raising Taxes to pay for health care

Shayla-Mihaly
Posts: 1
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12/18/2014 12:19:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I would like to see taxes raised across the board and get free health care for everybody. I have no problem paying higher taxes to get good health care insurance.

Thanks Shayla Mihaly
chelseawwy
Posts: 1
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12/18/2014 10:49:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/18/2014 12:19:50 PM, Shayla-Mihaly wrote:
I would like to see taxes raised across the board and get free health care for everybody. I have no problem paying higher taxes to get good health care insurance.

Thanks Shayla Mihaly

However, not everyone can afford paying higher taxes. Currently, there are some people who are having huge financial burdens to pay the current tax. Even though free health care is preferable, increasing taxes shouldn't be a solution in reaching the aim. Raising taxes to get free health care services may also cause lower quality of health care services, therefore, I do not think raising taxes should be used to provide free health care.
JAultman
Posts: 1
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2/17/2015 9:52:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The proponent of increasing taxes across the board offers no limitation on her argument. Are you in favor of increasing any and all taxes, of whatever nature, to secure national healthcare? If so, is there a limit on how high you'd increase taxes to realize this goal? Your argument is too conclusory and lacks any support or dimension. Thus, it can't be taken seriously.
LittleGnomeChomsky
Posts: 3
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2/17/2015 5:31:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Every single country with universal health care spends substantially less money per person and as a percentage of the economy than the US, while at the same time provide coverage to the whole population as opposed to only part of it. Even more surprisingly, US government healthcare spending per capita is already in the top 10 world wide. Considering how much money is spent, healthcare outcomes in the US are quite mediocre.

By introducing UHC, actual amount of money spent on healthcare per person has decreased in every single real world example. Instead of paying the insurance companies, you're going to be buying your insurance directly from the government under UHC. As it exists right now, US government programs like medicare and medicade have about 10% of the overhead of insurance companies. These programs are prohibited by law from using their massive purchasing power and economy of scale to negotiate for lower prices. They could be run at even less cost with a simple legislative change (opposed most strongly by insurance company lobbyists). They are also not out to screw you over to make a quick buck like many health insurance companies are.

If people can't afford to get regular health care they get sick. Sometimes small problems like a chest infection go untreated because it isn't affordable or the risk of not seeking treatment might reasonably seem to outweigh the cost of the treatment. If that infection becomes life threatening pneumonia, hospitals are forced to administer emergency care and what would have been cheap to fix becomes very expensive. If the person can't pay (most bankruptcies are over medical bills) than society ends up shouldering the cost anyway only now it's literally thousands of times greater than it would have been had free care been provided.

Even if it is their own fault (it seldom is) sick people cost the economy a great deal. Sick people miss work and are less productive. They are less able to take the risks and pursue the ventures they otherwise would stifling innovation and growth. The US system perversely incentivises people to avoid seeking care immediately when it is both cheapest to treat and least disruptive to the economy.

Just like having an educated population, a healthy population is good for the economy. Would you argue that you shouldn't have to pay taxes to maintain a public road you don't use? I hope not, because even if you don't use that road doesn't mean you aren't benefiting from it existing, sometimes in ways you might not realize. Roads are the lifeblood of our infrastructure, people the lifeblood of our economy. Also I love my country and I don't like seeing fellow citizens having to choose between things like cancer treatment and sending their kids to college. It's barbaric and as the rest of the developed world has proven, quite unnecessary.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,154
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2/22/2015 4:44:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Surely heath care is less important than food, housing, heat, water, clothing.
So I would argue that before free healthcare for everyone, there should be free food, and housing at a minimum, and probably heat, water and clothing as well.
People who do not have food to eat will surely become ill, and need health care, and if they are living on the street, or without heat, same. So clearly these things are more important.
Once these things are provided free of charge for all persons, we could look at health care.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/22/2015 10:52:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You're all making the assumption that we know what country you're talking about. This is the internet. We don't all live in the same country.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,154
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2/23/2015 8:27:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 10:52:12 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
You're all making the assumption that we know what country you're talking about. This is the internet. We don't all live in the same country.

I'm not sure I understand your point.
Do wants and needs change depending on what country you live in?
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/23/2015 10:25:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 8:27:36 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/22/2015 10:52:12 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
You're all making the assumption that we know what country you're talking about. This is the internet. We don't all live in the same country.

I'm not sure I understand your point.
Do wants and needs change depending on what country you live in?

Yes, especially in this context. I don't need my government to raise taxes to pay for health care. Most people in first-world countries don't. We have that already.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,154
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2/23/2015 12:15:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 10:25:31 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:27:36 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/22/2015 10:52:12 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
You're all making the assumption that we know what country you're talking about. This is the internet. We don't all live in the same country.

I'm not sure I understand your point.
Do wants and needs change depending on what country you live in?

Yes, especially in this context. I don't need my government to raise taxes to pay for health care. Most people in first-world countries don't. We have that already.

Why is you country different than any other?
Are there some countries where the taxpayers want to pay more taxes?
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/23/2015 12:30:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 12:15:03 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/23/2015 10:25:31 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:27:36 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/22/2015 10:52:12 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
You're all making the assumption that we know what country you're talking about. This is the internet. We don't all live in the same country.

I'm not sure I understand your point.
Do wants and needs change depending on what country you live in?

Yes, especially in this context. I don't need my government to raise taxes to pay for health care. Most people in first-world countries don't. We have that already.

Why is you country different than any other?
Are there some countries where the taxpayers want to pay more taxes?

I'm not sure how your questions makes sense in the context of this discussion. The issue was raising taxes to pay for health care. I was poking fun at the fact that it was raised in such a way that the statement generalizes and was addressed to all of us. So I pointed out that this statement does not apply to all of us. Many of us live in a country where our taxes already pay for health care.

Maybe someone can clarify where the root of our miscommunication lies.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,154
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2/23/2015 12:43:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 12:30:39 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/23/2015 12:15:03 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/23/2015 10:25:31 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:27:36 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/22/2015 10:52:12 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
You're all making the assumption that we know what country you're talking about. This is the internet. We don't all live in the same country.

I'm not sure I understand your point.
Do wants and needs change depending on what country you live in?

Yes, especially in this context. I don't need my government to raise taxes to pay for health care. Most people in first-world countries don't. We have that already.

Why is you country different than any other?
Are there some countries where the taxpayers want to pay more taxes?

I'm not sure how your questions makes sense in the context of this discussion. The issue was raising taxes to pay for health care. I was poking fun at the fact that it was raised in such a way that the statement generalizes and was addressed to all of us. So I pointed out that this statement does not apply to all of us. Many of us live in a country where our taxes already pay for health care.

Maybe someone can clarify where the root of our miscommunication lies.

If everyone in your country has free healthcare, then there is no need to raise taxes.
It seems to me that the OP only applies to countries that have taxes, and do not have free health care for everyone. that would exclude you.
It wasn't addressed to all of us.
Or, looking at it another way, do you support in principle raising taxes so everyone has free health care - regardless of where you live.

Since you live where everyone has free health care, yourself included, how does that work for you? Good idea?
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/23/2015 1:01:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 12:43:28 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/23/2015 12:30:39 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/23/2015 12:15:03 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/23/2015 10:25:31 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:27:36 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/22/2015 10:52:12 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
You're all making the assumption that we know what country you're talking about. This is the internet. We don't all live in the same country.

I'm not sure I understand your point.
Do wants and needs change depending on what country you live in?

Yes, especially in this context. I don't need my government to raise taxes to pay for health care. Most people in first-world countries don't. We have that already.

Why is you country different than any other?
Are there some countries where the taxpayers want to pay more taxes?

I'm not sure how your questions makes sense in the context of this discussion. The issue was raising taxes to pay for health care. I was poking fun at the fact that it was raised in such a way that the statement generalizes and was addressed to all of us. So I pointed out that this statement does not apply to all of us. Many of us live in a country where our taxes already pay for health care.

Maybe someone can clarify where the root of our miscommunication lies.

If everyone in your country has free healthcare, then there is no need to raise taxes.
It seems to me that the OP only applies to countries that have taxes, and do not have free health care for everyone. that would exclude you.
It wasn't addressed to all of us.

The statement, "I would like to see taxes raised across the board and get free health care for everybody", does not suggest to me that this is being directed only at a subset of people. It sounds more like the OP is addressed to everyone, assuming that the statement is relevant to everyone.

And yes, I was facetiously making the point that there is no need to raise taxes since we already have free healthcare (making the same assumption and generalization to express a point).

Or, looking at it another way, do you support in principle raising taxes so everyone has free health care - regardless of where you live.

No, because that is a nonsensical statement given that some countries have universal healthcare paid for by taxes. I support that for countries where this is not the case. But for all other countries, what you're asking is, " given that you have universal healthcare paid for by taxes, would you support an increase in taxes to pay for universal healthcare?". Unless the increases in taxes is zero, it makes no sense to pay more for something you already have.

Since you live where everyone has free health care, yourself included, how does that work for you? Good idea?

Yes, I think it's a good idea. I'm very happy about it. I'm happy to have the healthcare, and I'm happy that my taxes pay for healthcare. Our current government is less supportive of it, even though most citizens here strongly support it, because our current government is very pro USA on everything.
Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,154
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2/23/2015 1:06:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 1:01:20 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/23/2015 12:43:28 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/23/2015 12:30:39 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/23/2015 12:15:03 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/23/2015 10:25:31 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:27:36 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/22/2015 10:52:12 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
You're all making the assumption that we know what country you're talking about. This is the internet. We don't all live in the same country.

I'm not sure I understand your point.
Do wants and needs change depending on what country you live in?

Yes, especially in this context. I don't need my government to raise taxes to pay for health care. Most people in first-world countries don't. We have that already.

Why is you country different than any other?
Are there some countries where the taxpayers want to pay more taxes?

I'm not sure how your questions makes sense in the context of this discussion. The issue was raising taxes to pay for health care. I was poking fun at the fact that it was raised in such a way that the statement generalizes and was addressed to all of us. So I pointed out that this statement does not apply to all of us. Many of us live in a country where our taxes already pay for health care.

Maybe someone can clarify where the root of our miscommunication lies.

If everyone in your country has free healthcare, then there is no need to raise taxes.
It seems to me that the OP only applies to countries that have taxes, and do not have free health care for everyone. that would exclude you.
It wasn't addressed to all of us.

The statement, "I would like to see taxes raised across the board and get free health care for everybody", does not suggest to me that this is being directed only at a subset of people. It sounds more like the OP is addressed to everyone, assuming that the statement is relevant to everyone.

And yes, I was facetiously making the point that there is no need to raise taxes since we already have free healthcare (making the same assumption and generalization to express a point).

Or, looking at it another way, do you support in principle raising taxes so everyone has free health care - regardless of where you live.

No, because that is a nonsensical statement given that some countries have universal healthcare paid for by taxes. I support that for countries where this is not the case. But for all other countries, what you're asking is, " given that you have universal healthcare paid for by taxes, would you support an increase in taxes to pay for universal healthcare?". Unless the increases in taxes is zero, it makes no sense to pay more for something you already have.

Since you live where everyone has free health care, yourself included, how does that work for you? Good idea?

Yes, I think it's a good idea. I'm very happy about it. I'm happy to have the healthcare, and I'm happy that my taxes pay for healthcare. Our current government is less supportive of it, even though most citizens here strongly support it, because our current government is very pro USA on everything.

Thanks fro the reply.
Do you have a large welfare state, spend a lot of tax money on food and housing for the poor?
I take it you are happy with the medical care you are getting, are most people?
(if you are young you may not have had to use it very much.)
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/25/2015 10:20:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 1:06:51 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/23/2015 1:01:20 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/23/2015 12:43:28 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/23/2015 12:30:39 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/23/2015 12:15:03 PM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/23/2015 10:25:31 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/23/2015 8:27:36 AM, Welfare-Worker wrote:
At 2/22/2015 10:52:12 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
You're all making the assumption that we know what country you're talking about. This is the internet. We don't all live in the same country.

I'm not sure I understand your point.
Do wants and needs change depending on what country you live in?

Yes, especially in this context. I don't need my government to raise taxes to pay for health care. Most people in first-world countries don't. We have that already.

Why is you country different than any other?
Are there some countries where the taxpayers want to pay more taxes?

I'm not sure how your questions makes sense in the context of this discussion. The issue was raising taxes to pay for health care. I was poking fun at the fact that it was raised in such a way that the statement generalizes and was addressed to all of us. So I pointed out that this statement does not apply to all of us. Many of us live in a country where our taxes already pay for health care.

Maybe someone can clarify where the root of our miscommunication lies.

If everyone in your country has free healthcare, then there is no need to raise taxes.
It seems to me that the OP only applies to countries that have taxes, and do not have free health care for everyone. that would exclude you.
It wasn't addressed to all of us.

The statement, "I would like to see taxes raised across the board and get free health care for everybody", does not suggest to me that this is being directed only at a subset of people. It sounds more like the OP is addressed to everyone, assuming that the statement is relevant to everyone.

And yes, I was facetiously making the point that there is no need to raise taxes since we already have free healthcare (making the same assumption and generalization to express a point).

Or, looking at it another way, do you support in principle raising taxes so everyone has free health care - regardless of where you live.

No, because that is a nonsensical statement given that some countries have universal healthcare paid for by taxes. I support that for countries where this is not the case. But for all other countries, what you're asking is, " given that you have universal healthcare paid for by taxes, would you support an increase in taxes to pay for universal healthcare?". Unless the increases in taxes is zero, it makes no sense to pay more for something you already have.

Since you live where everyone has free health care, yourself included, how does that work for you? Good idea?

Yes, I think it's a good idea. I'm very happy about it. I'm happy to have the healthcare, and I'm happy that my taxes pay for healthcare. Our current government is less supportive of it, even though most citizens here strongly support it, because our current government is very pro USA on everything.

Thanks fro the reply.
Do you have a large welfare state, spend a lot of tax money on food and housing for the poor?
I take it you are happy with the medical care you are getting, are most people?
(if you are young you may not have had to use it very much.)

It could be classified as a liberal welfare state model. I'm not sure what would be considered large, but apparently our total social spending (includes things like government pensions, old age security, unemployment, etc.), is less than what is spent in the US and Australia as a proportion of GDP (http://stats.oecd.org...). I'm surprised to learn that, actually.

I think most people are happy with the healthcare here. Given how the world has changed, it's not quite what it used to be. People complain about the wait times for non-emergency treatment, but the general sentiment seems to be that at least we're not the US (this is just something I commonly hear, and I can't speak for the whole country).

I have made some use of our healthcare system, and I've seen my mother use it extensively. I've been at least satisfied with it every time and any waits have always seemed fair (if there's a chance that waiting could be harmful to you, you're not made to wait). I've come away really appreciating the system, and I've never seen a bill before. I don't even have an idea how much any treatment I or any of my family members have had actually costs. We've never had to worry about it.

I was in California for a conference a couple of years ago, and I remember a colleague having to pay 800$ just to be told that he fractured his toe and to have a splint put on it. I can see why healthcare bankrupts some people in the states.