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Male rights in unexpected pregnancy

tvellalott
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7/7/2010 9:35:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Ok, so how do we all feel about this subject. It takes two to tango, yet a womens rights massively outweigh the mans. I understand the baby grows inside the womens womb, so it is ultimately her right to choose whether or not to keep the baby, but if a man doesn't want to be a father, should he have to pay for the baby for the extent the childhood?

Discuss.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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7/7/2010 9:43:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 9:35:44 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Ok, so how do we all feel about this subject. It takes two to tango, yet a womens rights massively outweigh the mans. I understand the baby grows inside the womens womb, so it is ultimately her right to choose whether or not to keep the baby, but if a man doesn't want to be a father, should he have to pay for the baby for the extent the childhood?

Discuss.

It depends... if the man and woman are married, he has a legal obligation to the child. Morally, I believe he better damn well pay since it does take "two to tango". If he knocks her up, he better get ready with child support or stay by her side. Then again, I'm a child of divorce (like most) so I might be biased. :P
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
tvellalott
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7/7/2010 11:50:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Take a married or even a long-term couple out of the picture.

Two people have consensual sex.
They use protection.
She gets pregnant and decides to keep the baby.

Where does the man stand in that situation?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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7/7/2010 11:52:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 11:50:57 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Take a married or even a long-term couple out of the picture.

Two people have consensual sex.
They use protection.
She gets pregnant and decides to keep the baby.

Where does the man stand in that situation?

I'm assuming the condom broke in this situation. :P
xxdarkxx
Posts: 3,090
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7/8/2010 12:21:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 11:52:37 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 7/7/2010 11:50:57 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Take a married or even a long-term couple out of the picture.

Two people have consensual sex.
They use protection.
She gets pregnant and decides to keep the baby.

Where does the man stand in that situation?

I'm assuming the condom broke in this situation. :P

OR condom didn't break, chick is on the pill and she gets prego

sh!t is whack
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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7/8/2010 12:26:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have to get to bed soon (it's almost 3:30 am), but just a thought to stimulate discussion.

If a guy gets a girl pregnant, legally he has no say in whether or not she keeps the baby. Yet, if he leaves her, he's still forced to pay child support. I haven't really thought about it (tired, had a wild night), but that doesn't seem right.
I-am-a-panda
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7/8/2010 2:04:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Either:

A) The man cedes all rights to the child to the female and doesn't have to pay child support, etc.

B) The man takes responsibility for the child, has to pay child support, in full punctually, and has rights to the child (This is shoudl the couple seperate).
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tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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7/8/2010 7:14:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 2:04:38 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Either:

A) The man cedes all rights to the child to the female and doesn't have to pay child support, etc.

B) The man takes responsibility for the child, has to pay child support, in full punctually, and has rights to the child (This is shoudl the couple seperate).

I believe that in Case A, the female can go to court and force the husband to pay for child support.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/8/2010 8:11:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 7:14:03 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 7/8/2010 2:04:38 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Either:

A) The man cedes all rights to the child to the female and doesn't have to pay child support, etc.

B) The man takes responsibility for the child, has to pay child support, in full punctually, and has rights to the child (This is shoudl the couple seperate).

I believe that in Case A, the female can go to court and force the husband to pay for child support.

Good luck. My dad doens't pay. The state used to take his money they stopped, he doesn't pay, and the state's been "working on it" for about 7 months now.

I believe before they do anything like that they should discus plans on what to do, and what they will do if she does get pregnant.
Anyone that leaves just cause there's a kid is an *sshole, and not worth anyones time. Of course their are times when they lie, which is why having signed papers with the final ruling is the best way to go.
If he says he will support the kid in the papers and the time comes and he runs, the court should go after him.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Ragnar_Rahl
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7/8/2010 8:20:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
No prior contract?

Dealing with the child is the right and responsibility of the one with the child inside them. No payments by right. Don't like it? Make a contract that says otherwise.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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7/8/2010 8:22:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Of course, in addition to various criminal penalties, rapists should be civilly liable for the cost of abortion or child support :P.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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7/8/2010 8:26:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 9:35:44 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Ok, so how do we all feel about this subject. It takes two to tango, yet a womens rights massively outweigh the mans. I understand the baby grows inside the womens womb, so it is ultimately her right to choose whether or not to keep the baby, but if a man doesn't want to be a father, should he have to pay for the baby for the extent the childhood?

Discuss.

i've said this before: if the woman has the right to abort the baby then the man should have the right to opt out of supporting it.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/8/2010 8:27:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
And even if a jurisdiction does make different default rules here (It shouldn't, the present default is obvious), it should at least allow contracting out of it. Presently no jurisdiction does :(.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/8/2010 8:36:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 8:20:53 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
No prior contract?

Dealing with the child is the right and responsibility of the one with the child inside them.

That could solve alot of problems, guys don't get sex, children aren't born.
However there would prolly be more rapists.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/8/2010 8:40:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 8:36:24 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:20:53 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
No prior contract?

Dealing with the child is the right and responsibility of the one with the child inside them.

That could solve alot of problems, guys don't get sex, children aren't born.
If that happens guys start signing contracts and we're back to square one, no harm done

However there would prolly be more rapists.
You missed the later post :P
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/8/2010 8:41:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Ok, so how do we all feel about this subject. It takes two to tango, yet a womens rights massively outweigh the mans. I understand the baby grows inside the womens womb, so it is ultimately her right to choose whether or not to keep the baby, but if a man doesn't want to be a father, should he have to pay for the baby for the extent the childhood?:

I've made this argument before in opposition to abortion. If it requires one male and one female to create a new life, and the woman has rights to the ultimate disposition of the child's future, why is she the only one who gets to deny responsibility.

Notwithstanding my loathing for deadbeat dad's everywhere, it's a simple philosophical question about fairness. The answer is, being male precludes you from having as many rights as the female does. Sexist? Perhaps. Reality? Absolutely.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
lovelife
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7/8/2010 8:54:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 8:40:49 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:36:24 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:20:53 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
No prior contract?

Dealing with the child is the right and responsibility of the one with the child inside them.

That could solve alot of problems, guys don't get sex, children aren't born.
If that happens guys start signing contracts and we're back to square one, no harm done

However there would prolly be more rapists.
You missed the later post :P

Maybe guys start killing themselves cause they don't want to deal with responsibility.

And lol I read that one first, just chose to ignore it, because it doesn't matter what the law does, rapists will be there raping people (I would hope its at least people their raping. And I wonder if necrophilia in rape cases would be better. Less emotional distress to the victim)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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7/8/2010 8:57:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 8:41:32 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Ok, so how do we all feel about this subject. It takes two to tango, yet a womens rights massively outweigh the mans. I understand the baby grows inside the womens womb, so it is ultimately her right to choose whether or not to keep the baby, but if a man doesn't want to be a father, should he have to pay for the baby for the extent the childhood?:

I've made this argument before in opposition to abortion. If it requires one male and one female to create a new life, and the woman has rights to the ultimate disposition of the child's future, why is she the only one who gets to deny responsibility.

Notwithstanding my loathing for deadbeat dad's everywhere, it's a simple philosophical question about fairness. The answer is, being male precludes you from having as many rights as the female does. Sexist? Perhaps. Reality? Absolutely.

It is sexist and wrong, but at the same time you have to talk about things. She shouldn't go off and have an abortion without taking his wishes into consideration too. He shouldn't just leave her to care for the child, perhaps all along. Lesbianism seems like the best choice for females. Odds are if they get pregnant, they planned it, or someones not as lez or loyal as she seems.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/8/2010 9:00:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 8:59:04 AM, Mirza wrote:
It is his semen, and he has every right to be part of authority over it.

So he should stay and be a male authority (parent) to what he helped create
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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7/8/2010 9:02:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 9:00:52 AM, lovelife wrote:
So he should stay and be a male authority (parent) to what he helped create
Yes, that is correct.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/8/2010 9:09:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 8:54:31 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:40:49 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:36:24 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:20:53 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
No prior contract?

Dealing with the child is the right and responsibility of the one with the child inside them.

That could solve alot of problems, guys don't get sex, children aren't born.
If that happens guys start signing contracts and we're back to square one, no harm done

However there would prolly be more rapists.
You missed the later post :P

Maybe guys start killing themselves cause they don't want to deal with responsibility.

And lol I read that one first, just chose to ignore it, because it doesn't matter what the law does, rapists will be there raping people
Which contradicts the notion that rape will INCREASE :P.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/8/2010 9:12:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 9:09:33 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:54:31 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:40:49 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:36:24 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:20:53 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
No prior contract?

Dealing with the child is the right and responsibility of the one with the child inside them.

That could solve alot of problems, guys don't get sex, children aren't born.
If that happens guys start signing contracts and we're back to square one, no harm done

However there would prolly be more rapists.
You missed the later post :P

Maybe guys start killing themselves cause they don't want to deal with responsibility.

And lol I read that one first, just chose to ignore it, because it doesn't matter what the law does, rapists will be there raping people
Which contradicts the notion that rape will INCREASE :P.

Lol nope. I believe it will increase. The torture the government can place on males, is nothing compared to being forced to
1) Be responsible
2) Not do guys
3) Still have sex

Most guys (not all but most) couldn't survive like that, become desperate, and will eventually go for rape.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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7/8/2010 9:14:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 9:12:29 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/8/2010 9:09:33 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:54:31 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:40:49 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:36:24 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:20:53 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
No prior contract?

Dealing with the child is the right and responsibility of the one with the child inside them.

That could solve alot of problems, guys don't get sex, children aren't born.
If that happens guys start signing contracts and we're back to square one, no harm done

However there would prolly be more rapists.
You missed the later post :P

Maybe guys start killing themselves cause they don't want to deal with responsibility.

And lol I read that one first, just chose to ignore it, because it doesn't matter what the law does, rapists will be there raping people
Which contradicts the notion that rape will INCREASE :P.

Lol nope. I believe it will increase. The torture the government can place on males, is nothing compared to being forced to
1) Be responsible
The only party that enforces such "responsibility" is the government.

2) Not do guys
Wait, you're favoring a prohibition on gays? And relating that to the thread?

3) Still have sex
Um, if the guys are being forced to have sex their motives aren't the ones causing the rape :P
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/8/2010 9:15:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
It is sexist and wrong, but at the same time you have to talk about things. She shouldn't go off and have an abortion without taking his wishes into consideration too.:

Ideally that would be great, but ultimately she is going to have the last say.

He shouldn't just leave her to care for the child:

It's a hypothetical situation. Should a woman have all the say in the life of the child? She gets to decide whether to keep it, she gets to decide not have it. The male has no say in either direction. His opinion about keeping the baby is immaterial (as far as it relates to a court of law) and his desiring for not having the baby is also immaterial.

She has both options, he has none. This is the dilemma that the original poster presented.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
lovelife
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7/8/2010 9:18:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 9:14:39 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

1) Be responsible
The only party that enforces such "responsibility" is the government.

I'm talking on their own, without the government.

2) Not do guys
Wait, you're favoring a prohibition on gays? And relating that to the thread?

No not prohibiting, just think of all the strait guys that would rather rape a woman than do anything with a guy.

3) Still have sex
Um, if the guys are being forced to have sex their motives aren't the ones causing the rape :P

Sex is their motive, no ones forcing it, unless its them.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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7/8/2010 9:23:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 9:15:12 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
It is sexist and wrong, but at the same time you have to talk about things. She shouldn't go off and have an abortion without taking his wishes into consideration too.:

Ideally that would be great, but ultimately she is going to have the last say.

He shouldn't just leave her to care for the child:

It's a hypothetical situation. Should a woman have all the say in the life of the child? She gets to decide whether to keep it, she gets to decide not have it. The male has no say in either direction. His opinion about keeping the baby is immaterial (as far as it relates to a court of law) and his desiring for not having the baby is also immaterial.


They could decide on adoption. I'm sure if I ever got pregnant I'd give the kid to my friend. She loves children, I hate them, so does my bf. Still gunna talk about it later when it gets closer to we might actually have sex, but I would bet thats what would happen.

She has both options, he has none. This is the dilemma that the original poster presented.

If he insists on talking to her about "what if" before just going to feel good, then I'm sure he would have plenty of options. Talk about if either wants kids, and plans on what to do if something unexpected happened and she got pregnant. Not that hard.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Ragnar_Rahl
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7/8/2010 9:23:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 9:18:48 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/8/2010 9:14:39 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

1) Be responsible
The only party that enforces such "responsibility" is the government.

I'm talking on their own, without the government.

???

What are you talking about precisely? your last paragraph seems to be a muddle of confusion

2) Not do guys
Wait, you're favoring a prohibition on gays? And relating that to the thread?

No not prohibiting, just think of all the strait guys that would rather rape a woman than do anything with a guy.
What's your point? That isn't the only option they're limited to in my proposal. They can also A. Find a woman who is confident in her birth control methods. B. sign a contract to abide by the present-day term. C. Hire a hooker.

None of which leads to massive civil liability plus jail, or execution, or castration, all valid options as far as I'm concerned :P


3) Still have sex
Um, if the guys are being forced to have sex their motives aren't the ones causing the rape :P

Sex is their motive, no ones forcing it, unless its them.
You said "Forcing them to..." as a modifier for your numbered list.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
annhasle
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7/8/2010 9:27:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 9:15:12 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
It is sexist and wrong, but at the same time you have to talk about things. She shouldn't go off and have an abortion without taking his wishes into consideration too.:

Ideally that would be great, but ultimately she is going to have the last say.

He shouldn't just leave her to care for the child:

It's a hypothetical situation. Should a woman have all the say in the life of the child? She gets to decide whether to keep it, she gets to decide not have it. The male has no say in either direction. His opinion about keeping the baby is immaterial (as far as it relates to a court of law) and his desiring for not having the baby is also immaterial.

She has both options, he has none. This is the dilemma that the original poster presented.

That's not entirely true. My mom planned on aborting one of my sisters but my Dad wanted to keep it so he slapped a lawsuit on her. And he won; so she carried that baby full term and then gave the baby to him. They only reached that conclusion since she had already carried five kids to a full term and there were no health implications.
Now, this did take place in Europe so I guess it depends on where you live. I know in America, men have barely any rights. I don't know if that is necessarily bad though...
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
lovelife
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7/8/2010 9:33:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 9:23:51 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 9:18:48 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/8/2010 9:14:39 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

1) Be responsible
The only party that enforces such "responsibility" is the government.

I'm talking on their own, without the government.

???

What are you talking about precisely? your last paragraph seems to be a muddle of confusion

2) Not do guys
Wait, you're favoring a prohibition on gays? And relating that to the thread?

No not prohibiting, just think of all the strait guys that would rather rape a woman than do anything with a guy.
What's your point? That isn't the only option they're limited to in my proposal. They can also A. Find a woman who is confident in her birth control methods. B. sign a contract to abide by the present-day term. C. Hire a hooker.

None of which leads to massive civil liability plus jail, or execution, or castration, all valid options as far as I'm concerned :P


3) Still have sex
Um, if the guys are being forced to have sex their motives aren't the ones causing the rape :P

Sex is their motive, no ones forcing it, unless its them.
You said "Forcing them to..." as a modifier for your numbered list.

"being forced to" was used to show that that is their options. And I'm pretty sure hookers are illegal, and they wouldn't want to do that :p. Well they prolly charge alot, plus how much business do they get? How many diseases could be hiding under that little skirt?
I don't know how many would be that cofortable with her birth control methods, but they do exist I suppose.
I suggested a contract agreement. I think it might work just have him sign it right before so he doesn't pay that attention. Then gets pissed about a month later after she misses her period thinks he's responisble, then she finds it was just a day or two late.
Bet he'd think twice before signing after that.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave