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Four Loko

Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/16/2010 9:14:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm sure everyone's heard the news. Care to share any opinions on the news?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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11/16/2010 9:21:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I've always been neutral towards Four Loko. I mean, they came in handy when I was broke and craving a buzz. And they taste okay - if you get the right flavor. But I can deal without them. However, what's stopping me from drinking a beer and then chugging a Rockstar or Monster energy drink afterwards? <shrugs> The whole thing seems a little pointless to me. Ya can make a "homemade" Four Loko for an extra dollar or two. ^_^
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/16/2010 9:25:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/16/2010 9:21:11 PM, annhasle wrote:
I've always been neutral towards Four Loko. I mean, they came in handy when I was broke and craving a buzz. And they taste okay - if you get the right flavor. But I can deal without them. However, what's stopping me from drinking a beer and then chugging a Rockstar or Monster energy drink afterwards? <shrugs> The whole thing seems a little pointless to me. Ya can make a "homemade" Four Loko for an extra dollar or two. ^_^

true, granted that they have 4.7 shots of alcohol in them, they have the same price-to-alcohol content as a $10 fifth of Vodka and you can get generic soda to mix.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/16/2010 9:46:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
So, you know how ritalin is a stimulant, which actually helps calm kids with ADHD and ADD? I wonder if the caffeine has the same effect?

I've downed a four loko (which they say is suppose to keep you alert, to hide the effects of the alcohol), and I can feel the alcohol as I would expect if I drank that many beers (4.7 at 5%), though it does make me burpy.

I will say that I never drink coffee, ever, and soda only works for me because of the sugar (I say this because it has the same effect as if I drank apple juice or some sugary drink). And I likely have ADSO (attention deficit SHINEY OBJECT!!!), though my parents never did believe in that kind of stuff (I think it is over rated too, or at least over diagnosed).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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11/16/2010 9:51:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/16/2010 9:46:17 PM, OreEle wrote:
So, you know how ritalin is a stimulant, which actually helps calm kids with ADHD and ADD? I wonder if the caffeine has the same effect?

From what I have seen, no. My best friend DEFINITELY has ADHD and caffeine affects her - big time. Same with my other friends. <shrugs> I'm the only one who isn't affected by caffeine and luckily I've never been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/16/2010 9:56:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/16/2010 9:51:48 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 11/16/2010 9:46:17 PM, OreEle wrote:
So, you know how ritalin is a stimulant, which actually helps calm kids with ADHD and ADD? I wonder if the caffeine has the same effect?

From what I have seen, no. My best friend DEFINITELY has ADHD and caffeine affects her - big time. Same with my other friends. <shrugs> I'm the only one who isn't affected by caffeine and luckily I've never been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD.

hmm, I wonder if it is a different reason that Ritalin has a positive effect, while caffeine doesn't.

Don't know.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/16/2010 10:02:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
So I read up and basically its more of the government telling us what we can and cannot put in our bodies.
Nice.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Sam_Lowry
Posts: 367
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11/16/2010 10:07:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Mixing caffeine and alcohol is a pretty bad idea. You loose a lot of your defense against alcohol poisoning and you're awareness of inebriation is severely diminished.

But yeah, let's ban 4loko so we can have college kids mixing even more obscene amounts of the two easily obtainable substances together because they have no idea what they're doing. It's not like kids have been doing this since way before someone decided to mix them together.
Sam_Lowry
Posts: 367
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11/16/2010 10:11:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/16/2010 10:02:37 PM, lovelife wrote:
So I read up and basically its more of the government telling us what we can and cannot put in our bodies.
Nice.

No, it's perfectly legal to mix caffeine and alcohol. They are banning the sale of the combined substances, which isn't really that unreasonable, but I doubt that it will have any measurable effect on the people who think that it's a good idea (about 30% of college students).
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/16/2010 10:18:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/16/2010 10:11:05 PM, Sam_Lowry wrote:
At 11/16/2010 10:02:37 PM, lovelife wrote:
So I read up and basically its more of the government telling us what we can and cannot put in our bodies.
Nice.

No, it's perfectly legal to mix caffeine and alcohol. They are banning the sale of the combined substances, which isn't really that unreasonable, but I doubt that it will have any measurable effect on the people who think that it's a good idea (about 30% of college students).

They are also arguing that it is marketed towards kids (brightly colored cans, with fruit flavorings, and the amount of caffeine is not listed on the can) and that it does not adequately warn of it's alcohol and caffeine content. It is not like a red bull and vodka. A single can is like 4 red bulls and vodkas.

Personally, I think, any drinks that are sold to be drunken individually should have the alcohol volume, rather then concentration (so a can of beer would say ".6 fl oz of ethanol" rather then "5% alcohol").
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/16/2010 10:20:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/16/2010 10:11:05 PM, Sam_Lowry wrote:
At 11/16/2010 10:02:37 PM, lovelife wrote:
So I read up and basically its more of the government telling us what we can and cannot put in our bodies.
Nice.

No, it's perfectly legal to mix caffeine and alcohol. They are banning the sale of the combined substances, which isn't really that unreasonable, but I doubt that it will have any measurable effect on the people who think that it's a good idea (about 30% of college students).

No they are trying to control it. Maybe I like it, because of the taste or somthing?
Its ridiculous when the government tries to control us. Alcohol is illegal for people under 21 in the US. If the defense of this being illegal is that 17 year olds were partying too much, well thats THEIR problem, not the governments. Just put warnings on them, don't hide the fact that its alcohol, don't sell it to minors, what exactly is the problem?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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11/16/2010 10:30:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/16/2010 10:20:58 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/16/2010 10:11:05 PM, Sam_Lowry wrote:
At 11/16/2010 10:02:37 PM, lovelife wrote:
So I read up and basically its more of the government telling us what we can and cannot put in our bodies.
Nice.

No, it's perfectly legal to mix caffeine and alcohol. They are banning the sale of the combined substances, which isn't really that unreasonable, but I doubt that it will have any measurable effect on the people who think that it's a good idea (about 30% of college students).

No they are trying to control it. Maybe I like it, because of the taste or somthing?
Its ridiculous when the government tries to control us. Alcohol is illegal for people under 21 in the US. If the defense of this being illegal is that 17 year olds were partying too much, well thats THEIR problem, not the governments. Just put warnings on them, don't hide the fact that its alcohol, don't sell it to minors, what exactly is the problem?

I'll start by saying that I'm a statist to begin with, so of course I support many regulations, especially under the guise of protecting minors.

But...no, I'll just leave it at that, since this is likely an ideological difference (which takes too long to argue anyway).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/16/2010 10:42:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/16/2010 10:30:49 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 11/16/2010 10:20:58 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/16/2010 10:11:05 PM, Sam_Lowry wrote:
At 11/16/2010 10:02:37 PM, lovelife wrote:
So I read up and basically its more of the government telling us what we can and cannot put in our bodies.
Nice.

No, it's perfectly legal to mix caffeine and alcohol. They are banning the sale of the combined substances, which isn't really that unreasonable, but I doubt that it will have any measurable effect on the people who think that it's a good idea (about 30% of college students).

No they are trying to control it. Maybe I like it, because of the taste or somthing?
Its ridiculous when the government tries to control us. Alcohol is illegal for people under 21 in the US. If the defense of this being illegal is that 17 year olds were partying too much, well thats THEIR problem, not the governments. Just put warnings on them, don't hide the fact that its alcohol, don't sell it to minors, what exactly is the problem?

I'll start by saying that I'm a statist to begin with, so of course I support many regulations, especially under the guise of protecting minors.

But...no, I'll just leave it at that, since this is likely an ideological difference (which takes too long to argue anyway).

What are you even trying to say? I'm sick of people saying I can or can't put somethingin my own body. Warn me of risks fine, but leave it as my choice, like smoking, or drinking a bottle of vodka.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/17/2010 9:27:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
He's saying he doesn't think you should be able to do what you want to your own body; for some reason statists think they have the authority to go around telling people what to do, how to live their lives, what's appropriate and what's not, what's acceptable and what's not (even if it doesn't infringe on any other person), etc. Kinda sick and self-righteous really.
President of DDO
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/17/2010 9:29:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/17/2010 9:27:12 AM, theLwerd wrote:
He's saying he doesn't think you should be able to do what you want to your own body; for some reason statists think they have the authority to go around telling people what to do, how to live their lives, what's appropriate and what's not, what's acceptable and what's not (even if it doesn't infringe on any other person), etc. Kinda sick and self-righteous really.

Thats what I thought but I was unsure because it makes no sense and gives no real freedom, to the point that you can't even try and convince yourself you are free.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Sam_Lowry
Posts: 367
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11/18/2010 10:05:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
If they are not banning the possession or consumption of the substances, it's not a question of restricting what you can or cannot put into your body. Mixing the two substances together is relatively dangerous, and I can totally see the logic in not allowing for them to sell it pre mixed. There is nothing illegal about combining caffeine and alcohol, it's when the combination is marketed and sold that's the problem. I would be all for this if I thought it would make any measurable difference, but it wont, so I don't care. Legislating this kind of thing is a waste of time, but there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with it.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/18/2010 10:29:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/18/2010 10:05:15 AM, Sam_Lowry wrote:
If they are not banning the possession or consumption of the substances, it's not a question of restricting what you can or cannot put into your body. Mixing the two substances together is relatively dangerous, and I can totally see the logic in not allowing for them to sell it pre mixed. There is nothing illegal about combining caffeine and alcohol, it's when the combination is marketed and sold that's the problem. I would be all for this if I thought it would make any measurable difference, but it wont, so I don't care. Legislating this kind of thing is a waste of time, but there isn't anything fundamentally wrong with it.

Actually its attempting to control what we can do with our bodies. And then they don't think to consider that when kids start mixing it themselves they will make it more dangerous by not knowing how much of what is okay to mix, so then they will restrict further....etc
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/20/2010 9:41:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't get how this drink was dangerous: it's 4 shots and one cup of coffee per can.

Someone who drinks Red Bull vodkas all night will be drinking shots and caffein in equal ratios all night. This seems more dangerous.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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12/5/2010 9:18:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/20/2010 9:41:37 PM, bluesteel wrote:
I don't get how this drink was dangerous: it's 4 shots and one cup of coffee per can.

Someone who drinks Red Bull vodkas all night will be drinking shots and caffein in equal ratios all night. This seems more dangerous.

Its because the government thinks it needs to babysit us 24/7. Its not about danger its about control.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
belle
Posts: 4,113
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12/5/2010 1:29:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/5/2010 9:18:07 AM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/20/2010 9:41:37 PM, bluesteel wrote:
I don't get how this drink was dangerous: it's 4 shots and one cup of coffee per can.

Someone who drinks Red Bull vodkas all night will be drinking shots and caffein in equal ratios all night. This seems more dangerous.

Its because the government thinks it needs to babysit us 24/7. Its not about danger its about control.

meh, the idea is that young people (teenagers) are not capable of making good decisions and will be seduced by the pretty colors on the cans into drinking way more than they are capable of (since they are inexperienced drinkers anyways). and furthermore that anything that "normalizes" drinking for teens is considered bad. while i agree its paternalistic and unnecessary, i don't think you are considering just how bad teens can be at making decisions and how far reaching the consequences can be for their lives if they drink too much. death or serious injury (either due to drunk driving or alchohol poisoning) is a real concern. and while i know that "education" can't fix everything, it can certainly help. moreso than banning the drinks outright. so IF the government is going to be concerned about children they may as well go about it the smart way. but just saying we should be able to put anything we want in our bodies ignores the problems that flow from that down the line (when people are finally stuck with the consequences of their actions).
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
mds1303
Posts: 55
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12/14/2010 6:30:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/16/2010 10:42:58 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/16/2010 10:30:49 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 11/16/2010 10:20:58 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 11/16/2010 10:11:05 PM, Sam_Lowry wrote:
At 11/16/2010 10:02:37 PM, lovelife wrote:
So I read up and basically its more of the government telling us what we can and cannot put in our bodies.
Nice.

No, it's perfectly legal to mix caffeine and alcohol. They are banning the sale of the combined substances, which isn't really that unreasonable, but I doubt that it will have any measurable effect on the people who think that it's a good idea (about 30% of college students).

No they are trying to control it. Maybe I like it, because of the taste or somthing?
Its ridiculous when the government tries to control us. Alcohol is illegal for people under 21 in the US. If the defense of this being illegal is that 17 year olds were partying too much, well thats THEIR problem, not the governments. Just put warnings on them, don't hide the fact that its alcohol, don't sell it to minors, what exactly is the problem?

I'll start by saying that I'm a statist to begin with, so of course I support many regulations, especially under the guise of protecting minors.

But...no, I'll just leave it at that, since this is likely an ideological difference (which takes too long to argue anyway).

What are you even trying to say? I'm sick of people saying I can or can't put somethingin my own body. Warn me of risks fine, but leave it as my choice, like smoking, or drinking a bottle of vodka.

Sadly, it is ignorant comments likes this that get our society into trouble.

You are basically advocating for Euthanasia, legalization of all forms of controlled substances and even uncontrolled substances (such as the majority of prescription medications), simply because it is your body.

I mean people can just "google" their health problems and just take whatever medication they see fit, right? Who needs physicians prescribing things if the warnings are out there? Who needs pharmacists making sure medication interactions aren't going to kill you? I mean that information is published somewhere too right?

Let's not even consider obv. correlations between things like crime rates and drug use, or any other impacts that these choices that you make on "Your body" can have on society.

Anyways what it boils down too is there are way too many stupid people out there and way too much information that these stupid people can not understand.
Sam_Lowry
Posts: 367
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12/14/2010 9:18:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/14/2010 6:30:31 PM, mds1303 wrote:
Sadly, it is ignorant comments likes this that get our society into trouble.

You are basically advocating for Euthanasia, legalization of all forms of controlled substances and even uncontrolled substances (such as the majority of prescription medications), simply because it is your body. It's dumb comments like THIS that get our society into trouble.

No, you're an idiot. Prescription drugs = controlled substances. Uncontrolled drugs = unscheduled drugs such as OTCS and other unapproved drugs like Adrafinil and some of the JWH series.

I mean people can just "google" their health problems and just take whatever medication they see fit, right? Who needs physicians prescribing things if the warnings are out there? Who needs pharmacists making sure medication interactions aren't going to kill you? I mean that information is published somewhere too right?

The irony here is that not only do you have a completely unrealistic and hyperbolic view of such a scenario, but you appear to be completely ignorant of the level of human suffering caused by the heavy restriction of opiates and painkillers. Doctors are afraid to prescribe medication that actually works because doing so basically paints a giant target on their back for the DEA. If you have any knowledge of pharmaceuticals and have a good idea of what specific medications will work for you, you basically need to keep your mouth shut and let you're doctor perform his own trial and error on you, because any indication of said knowledge is a "sign" of "drug seeking behavior", which makes prescribing anything abusable to you a big no-no. Have fun with your chronic pain!

Because they "can" it doesn't follow that they will. Almost every single person in the US. "can" easily acquire most any popular prescription drug. Does it follow that they all do?

Let's not even consider obv. correlations between things like crime rates and drug use, or any other impacts that these choices that you make on "Your body" can have on society.

Yep, drugs take over your body and make you commit crime, just like having dark skin. I honestly do not even know how to respond to this, it's like every misconception about drug use combined into one.

1. You are asserting that legalizing drugs would result in an increase in drug use; I.E. that the use of new drugs would be additive to the use of current drugs such as alcohol. Funny thing is that there is little evidence of this, and that there is plenty of contrary evidence in that there is often a subsitutive effect. See the relationship between prescription drug abuse and illegal narcotics, Marijuana and alcohol, and amphetamines and cocaine.

2. You are asserting that legalizing specific drugs causes increases in use of said drugs. Once again, this is quite a bold claim and you have not provided evidence that this the case. In fact, there is once again evidence that fear of prosecution keeps people from seeking medical treatment, as supported by the drop in almost all "hard" drug use in Portugal after blanket decriminalization. The fact that drug use has no correlation with any particular type of drug law (strict vs lenient) also supports this.

3. You assert that drugs "correlate" with crime, and imply that there is a causal link. The irony here is that increasing the suppression of drug traffic also "correlates" with crime, which you conveniently leave out. I'll give you a hint, one of those relationships is clearly a causal relationship, and the other isn't. And before you stuff words in my mouth, yes, certain drugs can increase aggression and exacerbate violent tendencies. It doesn't follow that criminalizing does anything to prevent those tendencies or drug use from occurring. In fact, there is a massive amount of evidence that points to the fact that increasing prices on illegal drugs increases the violent behavior of addicts. The reverse follows, in that giving alcoholics, Heroin addicts, and even stimulant addicts a free supply of drugs with no/few strings attached causes a marked reduction in violent and criminal behavior.

Funny thing is that I'm not even in favor of full/blanket legalization of all restricted drugs. You're just insufferable.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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12/16/2010 10:40:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Banned!!!
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."