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Circumcision

lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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12/18/2010 9:50:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Thoughts?
I have just convinced someone to join my side so I'm kinda high on self satisfaction.
I would like to know what the populous on DDO think about it tho.
And toy knowledge this hasn't been discussed here.

So
1) Health?
2) Satisfaction?
3) Peers later in life?
4) Sexual partners?
5) Is it the parent's right, or child abuse?
6) How does it compare to female circumcision?

Overall should it be accepted? (accepted for newborns that do not have health risks)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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12/18/2010 10:05:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 9:50:09 PM, lovelife wrote:
Thoughts?
I have just convinced someone to join my side so I'm kinda high on self satisfaction.
I would like to know what the populous on DDO think about it tho.
And toy knowledge this hasn't been discussed here.

So
1) Health?
2) Satisfaction?
3) Peers later in life?
4) Sexual partners?
5) Is it the parent's right, or child abuse?
6) How does it compare to female circumcision?

Overall should it be accepted? (accepted for newborns that do not have health risks)

From what I've read it began as a religious practice. Most medical authorities contend it is not medically necessary. My understanding is that more thorough hygiene practice have to be taught to children left intact. Its certainly child abuse and it is also a parent's right (at least in my country). I believe it should not be acceptable to do that to a child. If someone wants to circumcised themselves -- by all means. But it should no be inflicted without consent.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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12/18/2010 10:12:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/18/2010 10:05:11 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 12/18/2010 9:50:09 PM, lovelife wrote:
Thoughts?
I have just convinced someone to join my side so I'm kinda high on self satisfaction.
I would like to know what the populous on DDO think about it tho.
And toy knowledge this hasn't been discussed here.

So
1) Health?
2) Satisfaction?
3) Peers later in life?
4) Sexual partners?
5) Is it the parent's right, or child abuse?
6) How does it compare to female circumcision?

Overall should it be accepted? (accepted for newborns that do not have health risks)

From what I've read it began as a religious practice. Most medical authorities contend it is not medically necessary. My understanding is that more thorough hygiene practice have to be taught to children left intact. Its certainly child abuse and it is also a parent's right (at least in my country). I believe it should not be acceptable to do that to a child. If someone wants to circumcised themselves -- by all means. But it should no be inflicted without consent.

I would have to agree. And yes as Penn&Teller said it started with jews because god wanted the sacrifice, then christians wanted to discourage masturbation, and then there were fake health benefits, and now its just for fitting in,even though it is bad for you.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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12/20/2010 12:45:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I was circumscribed and I don't remember it. I do remember those big freaking shots they gave me to go to school though. I can remember by cousin screaming like a girl because his got infected because it wasn't cut.

Are people really making some kind of big deal out of this?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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12/20/2010 12:21:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 12:45:07 AM, jharry wrote:
I was circumscribed and I don't remember it. I do remember those big freaking shots they gave me to go to school though. I can remember by cousin screaming like a girl because his got infected because it wasn't cut.

Are people really making some kind of big deal out of this?

Uhhh yeah circumsision=bad, evil, unless ACTUALLY medically needed, which is less then 1%
More often then not its bad for you. And its pretty gross. Plus there is no REASON people feel the need to.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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12/20/2010 12:34:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is the worst thing I learned about circumcision:

"Up to 96 percent of the babies in the United States and Canada receive no anesthesia when they are circumcised, according to a report from the University of Alberta in Edmonton"
http://articles.cnn.com...

The article says that the authors of a study on circumcision halted the study because many babies were nearly suffocating from crying so hard during the procedure.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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12/20/2010 1:15:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 12:21:18 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 12/20/2010 12:45:07 AM, jharry wrote:
I was circumscribed and I don't remember it. I do remember those big freaking shots they gave me to go to school though. I can remember by cousin screaming like a girl because his got infected because it wasn't cut.

Are people really making some kind of big deal out of this?

Uhhh yeah circumsision=bad, evil, unless ACTUALLY medically needed, which is less then 1%
More often then not its bad for you. And its pretty gross. Plus there is no REASON people feel the need to.

You didn't see the studies in the NYT that i posted where circumcision can reduce the incidence of AIDS by up to 50%?
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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12/20/2010 1:33:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Don't force a child to be circumcised unless it's medically necessary. IF they want to get cut later in life they can (because its a good idea if you're sexually active).

People use the "reduces rate of STDs" argument all the time against the anti-infant genital mutilation crowd. I don't understand heir reasoning. Babies don't have sex.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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12/20/2010 1:37:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I am glad I am circumcised for the following reasons:
1. Easy cleaning
2. My schmuck doesn't look like an anteater
3. Reduces my risk of STD's
4. I'd rather have it done when I'm too young to care
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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12/20/2010 1:37:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 1:33:44 PM, Korashk wrote:
Don't force a child to be circumcised unless it's medically necessary. IF they want to get cut later in life they can (because its a good idea if you're sexually active).

People use the "reduces rate of STDs" argument all the time against the anti-infant genital mutilation crowd. I don't understand heir reasoning. Babies don't have sex.

Not sure if you're aware of it, but one's physical mass in this area tends to increase significantly as you grow, as does your sensitivity. I cannot think of a single adult male that would opt for such a procedure.

It would be a really interesting, but impossible to obtain, piece of information to know how many AIDS cases were prevented due to circumcision.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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12/20/2010 1:42:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 1:15:09 PM, innomen wrote:
At 12/20/2010 12:21:18 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 12/20/2010 12:45:07 AM, jharry wrote:
I was circumscribed and I don't remember it. I do remember those big freaking shots they gave me to go to school though. I can remember by cousin screaming like a girl because his got infected because it wasn't cut.

Are people really making some kind of big deal out of this?

Uhhh yeah circumsision=bad, evil, unless ACTUALLY medically needed, which is less then 1%
More often then not its bad for you. And its pretty gross. Plus there is no REASON people feel the need to.

You didn't see the studies in the NYT that i posted where circumcision can reduce the incidence of AIDS by up to 50%?

Green, L. et al., "Male Circumcision and HIV Prevention: Insufficient Evidence and Neglected External Validity," American Journal of Preventive Medicine 39 (2010): 479-82.
"An article endorsed by thirty-two professionals questions the results of three highly publicized African circumcision studies. The studies claim that circumcision reduces HIV transmission, and they are being used to promote circumcisions. Substantial evidence in this article refutes the claim of the studies.

Examples in the article include the following:

1. Circumcision (in the study) is associated with increased transmission of HIV to women.

2. Conditions for the studies were unlike conditions found in real-world settings.

3. Other studies show that male circumcision is not associated with reduced HIV transmission.

4. The U.S. has a high rate of HIV infection and a high rate of circumcision. Other countries have low rates of circumcision and low rates of HIV infection.

5. Condoms are 95 times more cost effective in preventing HIV transmission"
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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12/20/2010 1:48:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 1:45:09 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
One word: Smegma

Tongues, armpits, and butts smell too. There's a simple non-surgical solution: bathe regularly.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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12/20/2010 1:51:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 1:37:40 PM, innomen wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but one's physical mass in this area tends to increase significantly as you grow, as does your sensitivity. I cannot think of a single adult male that would opt for such a procedure.

1.) Adults get voluntary circumcisions all the time.
2.) Exactly
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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12/20/2010 1:56:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 1:42:56 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 12/20/2010 1:15:09 PM, innomen wrote:
At 12/20/2010 12:21:18 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 12/20/2010 12:45:07 AM, jharry wrote:
I was circumscribed and I don't remember it. I do remember those big freaking shots they gave me to go to school though. I can remember by cousin screaming like a girl because his got infected because it wasn't cut.

Are people really making some kind of big deal out of this?

Uhhh yeah circumsision=bad, evil, unless ACTUALLY medically needed, which is less then 1%
More often then not its bad for you. And its pretty gross. Plus there is no REASON people feel the need to.

You didn't see the studies in the NYT that i posted where circumcision can reduce the incidence of AIDS by up to 50%?

Green, L. et al., "Male Circumcision and HIV Prevention: Insufficient Evidence and Neglected External Validity," American Journal of Preventive Medicine 39 (2010): 479-82.
"An article endorsed by thirty-two professionals questions the results of three highly publicized African circumcision studies. The studies claim that circumcision reduces HIV transmission, and they are being used to promote circumcisions. Substantial evidence in this article refutes the claim of the studies.

Examples in the article include the following:

1. Circumcision (in the study) is associated with increased transmission of HIV to women.

2. Conditions for the studies were unlike conditions found in real-world settings.

3. Other studies show that male circumcision is not associated with reduced HIV transmission.

4. The U.S. has a high rate of HIV infection and a high rate of circumcision. Other countries have low rates of circumcision and low rates of HIV infection.

5. Condoms are 95 times more cost effective in preventing HIV transmission"

I am not, nor have i ever advocated an either or approach, in fact i have for a long time advocated a multi prong (no pun intended) stance. There is significant evidence to show a likelihood of prevention, and to dismiss this on the shaky grounds illustrated above for true reasons that are less forth coming, is a terrible thing. If prevention of AIDS via this approach can even be made by 10% i would advocate this as an additional protection.

I don't even understand the cost effective argument, that seems to only be true if you only have sex once, or reuse your condoms ewwwww.
innomen
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12/20/2010 1:58:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 1:51:04 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 12/20/2010 1:37:40 PM, innomen wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but one's physical mass in this area tends to increase significantly as you grow, as does your sensitivity. I cannot think of a single adult male that would opt for such a procedure.

1.) Adults get voluntary circumcisions all the time.
2.) Exactly

In all my 46 years of living, i have never known of, or heard of a single adult man opting for a circumcision.

I'm not hugely happy that there may be some sexual pleasure that i might be missing, but i am happy i am alive.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/20/2010 2:00:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 1:33:44 PM, Korashk wrote:
Don't force a child to be circumcised unless it's medically necessary. IF they want to get cut later in life they can (because its a good idea if you're sexually active).

Are serious? I'm glad I was circumsized before I was old enough to consent. If I was old enough to consent, I'd say hell no cause i'd actually feel that sh!t. But when I'm a new born baby and don't give a crap and won't remember the experience anyway, that's when I'd prefer to have it done. I guarantee you that all circumcized people are thankful they got it over with as a baby rather than in their teens or twenties.

People use the "reduces rate of STDs" argument all the time against the anti-infant genital mutilation crowd. I don't understand heir reasoning. Babies don't have sex.

But they will 16 years later.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/20/2010 2:03:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is interesting.

It appears as though we have both people who are circumcised and people who are not in this thread, but everyone seems pleased with the state of their wang.

So, about what is there to disagree?
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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12/20/2010 2:05:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 2:03:56 PM, Ren wrote:
This is interesting.

It appears as though we have both people who are circumcised and people who are not in this thread, but everyone seems pleased with the state of their wang.

So, about what is there to disagree?

Well said...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/20/2010 2:06:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 2:04:21 PM, Ren wrote:
...I might add that, in my experience, women find circumcised penises more attractive, though.

Based on your experience, how would you know that? Lol.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/20/2010 2:08:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 2:06:54 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/20/2010 2:04:21 PM, Ren wrote:
...I might add that, in my experience, women find circumcised penises more attractive, though.

Based on your experience, how would you know that? Lol.

Or should I say, based on what exprience do you know this?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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12/20/2010 2:09:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 2:04:21 PM, Ren wrote:
...I might add that, in my experience, women find circumcised penises more attractive, though.

Mixed reaction with men.
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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12/20/2010 2:09:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 2:04:21 PM, Ren wrote:
...I might add that, in my experience, women find circumcised penises more attractive, though.

In the U.S., yes, because that is the norm. In other countries, that is not the norm. It's funny how cultural differences can even cross over to aesthetics.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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12/20/2010 2:10:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 2:06:54 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/20/2010 2:04:21 PM, Ren wrote:
...I might add that, in my experience, women find circumcised penises more attractive, though.

Based on your experience, how would you know that? Lol.

Because, that's they've told me?
gavin.ogden
Posts: 1,729
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12/20/2010 2:10:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 2:09:19 PM, innomen wrote:
At 12/20/2010 2:04:21 PM, Ren wrote:
...I might add that, in my experience, women find circumcised penises more attractive, though.

Mixed reaction with men.

LOL!
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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12/20/2010 2:10:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 2:09:25 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/20/2010 2:04:21 PM, Ren wrote:
...I might add that, in my experience, women find circumcised penises more attractive, though.

In the U.S., yes, because that is the norm. In other countries, that is not the norm. It's funny how cultural differences can even cross over to aesthetics.

Nah, my partner is from a country where it's almost never done and he prefers it cut.
gavin.ogden
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12/20/2010 2:11:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 2:10:37 PM, innomen wrote:
At 12/20/2010 2:09:25 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 12/20/2010 2:04:21 PM, Ren wrote:
...I might add that, in my experience, women find circumcised penises more attractive, though.

In the U.S., yes, because that is the norm. In other countries, that is not the norm. It's funny how cultural differences can even cross over to aesthetics.

Nah, my partner is from a country where it's almost never done and he prefers it cut.

He would know one hell of a lot better than me, so there you have it!
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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12/20/2010 2:12:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 2:10:01 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/20/2010 2:06:54 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/20/2010 2:04:21 PM, Ren wrote:
...I might add that, in my experience, women find circumcised penises more attractive, though.

Based on your experience, how would you know that? Lol.

Because, that's they've told me?

What an odd conversation to have with a woman!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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12/20/2010 2:14:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/20/2010 2:12:52 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/20/2010 2:10:01 PM, Ren wrote:
At 12/20/2010 2:06:54 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 12/20/2010 2:04:21 PM, Ren wrote:
...I might add that, in my experience, women find circumcised penises more attractive, though.

Based on your experience, how would you know that? Lol.

Because, that's they've told me?

What an odd conversation to have with a woman!

Really? Huh.