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obamas health care plan

lewis20
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1/23/2011 3:32:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Forcing every american to buy something is beyond ridiculous... just what I think.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
wierdman
Posts: 721
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1/23/2011 9:37:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/23/2011 3:32:00 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Forcing every american to buy something is beyond ridiculous... just what I think.

I think that its main purpose is to ensure that people buy insurance before getting sick.
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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1/23/2011 10:47:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/23/2011 9:37:52 AM, wierdman wrote:
At 1/23/2011 3:32:00 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Forcing every american to buy something is beyond ridiculous... just what I think.

I think that its main purpose is to ensure that people buy insurance before getting sick.

Even so, the chief point remains.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/26/2011 11:41:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
No one in their right mind would go without medical insurance if they could afford it...

...There are still private health insurance providers...

...If you can't afford healthcare, you aren't fined, and nothing bad happens...

What is the problem?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
lewis20
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1/28/2011 12:25:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/26/2011 11:41:36 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
No one in their right mind would go without medical insurance if they could afford it...

...There are still private health insurance providers...

...If you can't afford healthcare, you aren't fined, and nothing bad happens...

What is the problem?

Still hanging onto the illusion eh? Everyone who does not buy health insurance will be fined. Unless of course you're on welfare or something in which case the new healthcare bill doesn't matter either way.

Also, read the bill.

The issue isn't the insurance companies who are not, relative to every other industry, very profitable.
Its the medical mal-practice lawsuits, drug companies
And until we officially adopt socialism, the Federal government has no constitutional power to make an individual buy health insurance.

Also government bureaucrats can't run sh!t, why give them a shot at healthcare.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
CosmicAlfonzo
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1/28/2011 3:46:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/28/2011 12:25:44 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 1/26/2011 11:41:36 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
No one in their right mind would go without medical insurance if they could afford it...

...There are still private health insurance providers...

...If you can't afford healthcare, you aren't fined, and nothing bad happens...

What is the problem?

Still hanging onto the illusion eh? Everyone who does not buy health insurance will be fined. Unless of course you're on welfare or something in which case the new healthcare bill doesn't matter either way.

Also, read the bill.

The issue isn't the insurance companies who are not, relative to every other industry, very profitable.
Its the medical mal-practice lawsuits, drug companies
And until we officially adopt socialism, the Federal government has no constitutional power to make an individual buy health insurance.

Also government bureaucrats can't run sh!t, why give them a shot at healthcare.

Your points don't make any sense to me, could you elaborate with out being a condescending douche?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/28/2011 3:50:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
The current US system of health insurers that are hostile to the consumer and who actively try to avoid giving treatment does not seem very good. I get why people are opposed to a national health service in principle but if its a choice between the US and the UK basic self-interest would choose me to go with the failing socialism.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
lewis20
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1/28/2011 2:04:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/28/2011 3:46:21 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Your points don't make any sense to me, could you elaborate with out being a condescending douche?

point 1- the Federal Government has no authority to do it under the constitution.
point 2- you will be fined the cost of health insurance if you don't buy insurance. You are forced to buy insurance. (I still don't get what part of that doesn't make sense to you)
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
CosmicAlfonzo
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1/28/2011 3:03:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/28/2011 2:04:34 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 1/28/2011 3:46:21 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Your points don't make any sense to me, could you elaborate with out being a condescending douche?

point 1- the Federal Government has no authority to do it under the constitution.

Does it say they can't do something like this? What do you think of Social Security, wouldn't that (by a bit of a stretch of course), be something similar?

point 2- you will be fined the cost of health insurance if you don't buy insurance. You are forced to buy insurance. (I still don't get what part of that doesn't make sense to you)

I am dirt poor, not on welfare, and no one has ever forced me or fined me to buy insurance. I do not have health insurance.

Given how expensive it is to do even the simplest procedure at the hospital, I think you'd be nuts to not get health insurance if you could afford it. Everyone wants health insurance anyway, so it is kind of silly to say that you are being forced to buy it.

I broke my back at work a couple years back, and the surgery cost more money than I have ever seen in my life(luckily I didn't have to pay for it, workman's comp did).

That was a major procedure.. Now, think, you could be walking down the street, and the unexpected happens.. You get hit by a car.. Your whole body is messed up, the 6 million dollars required to make you stronger.. better.. and faster is impossible to pay because you don't have any insurance.

Your credit is destroyed, you live in debt, only to be saved by bankruptcy, winning the lottery, or marrying a lonely crazy millionaire/billionaire.

So yeah, I think it's kind of silly to complain about being forced to buy health insurance if you can afford it. No one in their right mind would want to live without health insurance.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
lewis20
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1/29/2011 1:31:53 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/28/2011 3:03:42 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
At 1/28/2011 2:04:34 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 1/28/2011 3:46:21 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Your points don't make any sense to me, could you elaborate with out being a condescending douche?

point 1- the Federal Government has no authority to do it under the constitution.

Does it say they can't do something like this? What do you think of Social Security, wouldn't that (by a bit of a stretch of course), be something similar?
dude i'm not making this sh!t up its int he bill read that or the constitution otherwise you gotta stop making these points that have no basis in reality. seriously read the stuff so I don't have to keep repeating myself its getting old.

point 2- you will be fined the cost of health insurance if you don't buy insurance. You are forced to buy insurance. (I still don't get what part of that doesn't make sense to you)

I am dirt poor, not on welfare, and no one has ever forced me or fined me to buy insurance. I do not have health insurance.

dude that part of the bill hasn't gone into effect yet. If you have zero income then you are excluded as the IRS is in charge of taking it from your income.
you can't base all your understanding of the bill on what has happened to you on your very specific case. Fact is, if you don't want health insurance, as a free nation, we should be understanding and allow you to not have health insurance.

Freedom is freedom, whether thats from having to have health insurance or anything else.


Given how expensive it is to do even the simplest procedure at the hospital, I think you'd be nuts to not get health insurance if you could afford it. Everyone wants health insurance anyway, so it is kind of silly to say that you are being forced to buy it.

I broke my back at work a couple years back, and the surgery cost more money than I have ever seen in my life(luckily I didn't have to pay for it, workman's comp did).

That was a major procedure.. Now, think, you could be walking down the street, and the unexpected happens.. You get hit by a car.. Your whole body is messed up, the 6 million dollars required to make you stronger.. better.. and faster is impossible to pay because you don't have any insurance.

Your credit is destroyed, you live in debt, only to be saved by bankruptcy, winning the lottery, or marrying a lonely crazy millionaire/billionaire.


So yeah, I think it's kind of silly to complain about being forced to buy health insurance if you can afford it. No one in their right mind would want to live without health insurance.

I'm too drunk to see right now but freedom means not having to buy anything. No matter how important it is, freedom means if I don't want something I don't have to buy it. Even if "it would be silly not to want it if you can afford it."
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
CosmicAlfonzo
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1/29/2011 1:48:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
This thing is 2,000 pages long right?

No.

Now if you want people to take your opinion on the matter seriously, back up what you are talking about. I'm not making any claims, I'm just asking you to back up your claims. Point me to a page or something, just explain your position instead of talking out of your @ss. Obviously, I'm interested in hearing what you have to say about the matter, so take advantage of the fact and show me that you aren't just parroting off some sh!t you heard from some other ignoramus.

If you can't do that, then stfu. If you think this is a big enough of an issue to b!tch about, you should be eager to inform people.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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1/29/2011 2:04:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/29/2011 1:48:21 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
This thing is 2,000 pages long right?

No.

Now if you want people to take your opinion on the matter seriously, back up what you are talking about. I'm not making any claims, I'm just asking you to back up your claims. Point me to a page or something, just explain your position instead of talking out of your @ss. Obviously, I'm interested in hearing what you have to say about the matter, so take advantage of the fact and show me that you aren't just parroting off some sh!t you heard from some other ignoramus.


If you can't do that, then stfu. If you think this is a big enough of an issue to b!tch about, you should be eager to inform people.

dude the point is don't make claims if you haven't read the bill.
I'm giving you facts, from the bill itself.
Don't say that, because I'm not giving you specific lines, it's not in the bill. It is in the bill and until you read all 2000 pages you have no authority to say it's not in the bill.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/29/2011 2:06:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I haven't made any claims yet, I've only asked questions, but I will make some claims now...

You haven't read the bill.

You are full of sh!t.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
lewis20
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1/29/2011 2:10:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/29/2011 2:06:50 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
I haven't made any claims yet, I've only asked questions, but I will make some claims now...

You haven't read the bill.

You are full of sh!t.

I've read the bill.
Everything I have said is truth, hows that for a claim.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
CosmicAlfonzo
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1/29/2011 2:16:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Well, until you back up your claims by pointing this stuff out in the bill, and showing how this is constitutionally illegal....

Don't expect me to see things from your point of view.

And congrats, you are no longer a condescending douche.. You are now an arrogant condescending douche.

Until you can back up your claims, I am not convinced that this anything I should be concerned with. Also, this conversation is obviously a waste of time.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
lewis20
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1/29/2011 2:27:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/29/2011 2:16:11 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Well, until you back up your claims by pointing this stuff out in the bill, and showing how this is constitutionally illegal....

Don't expect me to see things from your point of view.

And congrats, you are no longer a condescending douche.. You are now an arrogant condescending douche.

Until you can back up your claims, I am not convinced that this anything I should be concerned with. Also, this conversation is obviously a waste of time.

Everything I am telling you is in the constitution, just because you aren't willing to read the constitution doesn't negate the fact that it exists.
Same goes for the healthcare bill. Everything I am stating exists in the healthcare bill, whether you are willing to read the document or not.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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1/29/2011 9:37:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/29/2011 2:27:44 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 1/29/2011 2:16:11 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Well, until you back up your claims by pointing this stuff out in the bill, and showing how this is constitutionally illegal....

Don't expect me to see things from your point of view.

And congrats, you are no longer a condescending douche.. You are now an arrogant condescending douche.

Until you can back up your claims, I am not convinced that this anything I should be concerned with. Also, this conversation is obviously a waste of time.

Everything I am telling you is in the constitution, just because you aren't willing to read the constitution doesn't negate the fact that it exists.
Same goes for the healthcare bill. Everything I am stating exists in the healthcare bill, whether you are willing to read the document or not.

Dude, there's no way you'd understand it if you've really read the 3,000 page bill. I've heard from multiple congressmen that have read it that it has pointed to other documents and bills. Without those bills, you wouldn't understand any of it.

All the healthcare does is provide some competition against the insurance companies. Since the companies now have something to seriously compete against besides other private companies, they can stop ripping us off.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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1/29/2011 9:43:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/29/2011 9:37:42 AM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 1/29/2011 2:27:44 AM, lewis20 wrote:
At 1/29/2011 2:16:11 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Well, until you back up your claims by pointing this stuff out in the bill, and showing how this is constitutionally illegal....

Don't expect me to see things from your point of view.

And congrats, you are no longer a condescending douche.. You are now an arrogant condescending douche.

Until you can back up your claims, I am not convinced that this anything I should be concerned with. Also, this conversation is obviously a waste of time.

Everything I am telling you is in the constitution, just because you aren't willing to read the constitution doesn't negate the fact that it exists.
Same goes for the healthcare bill. Everything I am stating exists in the healthcare bill, whether you are willing to read the document or not.

Dude, there's no way you'd understand it if you've really read the 3,000 page bill. I've heard from multiple congressmen that have read it that it has pointed to other documents and bills. Without those bills, you wouldn't understand any of it.

All the healthcare does is provide some competition against the insurance companies. Since the companies now have something to seriously compete against besides other private companies, they can stop ripping us off.

Lol.

Do we have similar problems in life and home insurance?
Things that are so interesting:

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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1/29/2011 9:57:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/23/2011 3:32:00 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Forcing every american to buy something is beyond ridiculous... just what I think.

Well what about car insurance . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
I-am-a-panda
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1/29/2011 10:06:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/29/2011 9:57:12 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 1/23/2011 3:32:00 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Forcing every american to buy something is beyond ridiculous... just what I think.

Well what about car insurance . . .

Cars are optional.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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1/29/2011 10:19:45 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/29/2011 10:06:20 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/29/2011 9:57:12 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 1/23/2011 3:32:00 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Forcing every american to buy something is beyond ridiculous... just what I think.

Well what about car insurance . . .

Cars are optional.

So is living in America . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/29/2011 10:34:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/28/2011 2:04:34 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 1/28/2011 3:46:21 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
Your points don't make any sense to me, could you elaborate with out being a condescending douche?

point 1- the Federal Government has no authority to do it under the constitution.

Don't care, it's not like this is the first time we've gone against the constitution.

point 2- you will be fined the cost of health insurance if you don't buy insurance. You are forced to buy insurance. (I still don't get what part of that doesn't make sense to you)

Correction, if you don't "get" insurance, you will be fined. If you can't afford insurance, then the government pays for it for you (so you aren't really buying it).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/29/2011 10:52:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/29/2011 10:19:45 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 1/29/2011 10:06:20 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/29/2011 9:57:12 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 1/23/2011 3:32:00 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Forcing every american to buy something is beyond ridiculous... just what I think.

Well what about car insurance . . .

Cars are optional.

So is living in America . . .

By virtue of your existence in a select place (Which is not of your choosing) you should have to buy something?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/29/2011 11:14:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/29/2011 10:52:15 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/29/2011 10:19:45 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 1/29/2011 10:06:20 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/29/2011 9:57:12 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 1/23/2011 3:32:00 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Forcing every american to buy something is beyond ridiculous... just what I think.

Well what about car insurance . . .

Cars are optional.

So is living in America . . .

By virtue of your existence in a select place (Which is not of your choosing) you should have to buy something?

Except that it is your choosing. I could move out of the US next week if I wanted to. Sure, it would come at great cost, like losing my job and nearly all of my savings, but I could.

Just like I could choose to not have a car (and so avoid the car insurance payments), which would also cost me my job, since I need it to get to work and back.

But there are plenty of things of which you have to buy, like shelter and food. Many apartments require that you buy renters insurance to live there.

The only difference is that it with other things, it isn't the government telling you what to do, it is something else, like a company or the natural desire to live.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/29/2011 12:31:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/29/2011 11:14:03 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/29/2011 10:52:15 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/29/2011 10:19:45 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 1/29/2011 10:06:20 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/29/2011 9:57:12 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
At 1/23/2011 3:32:00 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Forcing every american to buy something is beyond ridiculous... just what I think.

Well what about car insurance . . .

Cars are optional.

So is living in America . . .

By virtue of your existence in a select place (Which is not of your choosing) you should have to buy something?

Except that it is your choosing. I could move out of the US next week if I wanted to. Sure, it would come at great cost, like losing my job and nearly all of my savings, but I could.

Just like I could choose to not have a car (and so avoid the car insurance payments), which would also cost me my job, since I need it to get to work and back.

Those two do not equate at all.


But there are plenty of things of which you have to buy, like shelter and food. Many apartments require that you buy renters insurance to live there.

You have a plethora of apartments to choose from, which the owners own legally and non-violently.


The only difference is that it with other things, it isn't the government telling you what to do, it is something else, like a company or the natural desire to live.

Yes, that is the key difference.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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1/29/2011 12:36:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
So who here is willing to go without healthcare?

Assume that hospital visits and procedures cost as much as they do now. Assume that you aren't fined or forced to buy insurance.

Can anyone here honestly say that they WANT to go without health insurance?

If so, can you give me a reason that isn't idealistic and denies the state of the world we live in?(Like, saying "I don't believe in money, you shouldn't have to pay for anything" would be an example of something that is idealistic and/or denies the state of the world we live in)

Also, can anyone give clear evidence that this bill violates the constitution? Can anyone tell me how this health care bill does more harm than good? Is the fact that you are being "forced" to buy something that you were going to buy anyway the only reason you are against this bill?

The health care bill doesn't stand out to me as something I should be concerned with. It doesn't stand out as something worth reading 2,000 fvcking pages of.

I doubt that anyone here has actually read it. Any opinion you have on the matter is probably something you heard from someone else. Possibly someone with some sort of agenda that demands that they make up stuff to turn you away from what otherwise sounds like a pretty b!tchin deal.

It's not like I support this bill so hard that I'm not willing to change my mind about it, I just want to hear an argument against it that isn't BS. Who the hell has the time to read a 2,000 page bill? Should I read every bill that tries to get passed in congress?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp