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Mao Zedong genocide

1dustpelt
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7/10/2012 3:36:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Killed more people than Hitler did
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"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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7/10/2012 3:37:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 3:36:19 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Killed more people than Hitler did

So did Stalin. Pol Pot killed almost 25% of his countries population.
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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7/10/2012 3:41:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 3:36:19 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Killed more people than Hitler did

Indirectly through starvation, yes. It was mass-murder, not genocide, since he wasn't targeting a specific race.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
airmax1227
Posts: 13,245
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7/10/2012 3:41:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Most of it was cause by famine, but he certainly had a direct hand in that. Some 40 million people I believe, died as a result of it.

On the other hand, aren't total casualties of WW2 over 60 Million?

Hitler can't be blamed for all the deaths, but he can be blamed indirectly. Similarly, I'm not sure Zedong can actually be blamed for all 40 million deaths...

Either way, both are certainly infamous for their ability to facilitate death.
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THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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7/10/2012 3:42:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 3:41:03 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:36:19 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Killed more people than Hitler did

Indirectly through starvation, yes. It was mass-murder, not genocide, since he wasn't targeting a specific race.

It was genocide, he specifically targeted a religious group and killed them. "Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group" (http://en.wikipedia.org...)
1dustpelt
Posts: 1,970
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7/10/2012 3:46:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
He killed more people than Hitler and Stalin COMBINED.

"The entire time period of this genocide was from 1958 to 1969. There were different segments during this time in which greater losses occurred. The worst being the three years of the Great Leap Forward, in which anywhere from 16 to 40 million lives were lost. The total amount - making this one of the worst genocides - is at minimum 45 million. This amount varies up to 70 million since new death records uncover more details. With the evidence being hidden, researchers must carefully search China's documents."

http://www.independent.co.uk...
http://voices.yahoo.com...
Wall of LOL
"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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7/10/2012 3:47:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 3:42:27 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:41:03 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:36:19 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Killed more people than Hitler did

Indirectly through starvation, yes. It was mass-murder, not genocide, since he wasn't targeting a specific race.

It was genocide, he specifically targeted a religious group and killed them. "Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group" (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

I'm aware of what constitutes genocide, however I was not aware that Mao Zedong targeted a specific religious group.

My understanding was that in addition to the descenters who were rounded up and killed, up to 50,000 million people died of starvation due to his rule.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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7/10/2012 3:55:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 3:47:58 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:42:27 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:41:03 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:36:19 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Killed more people than Hitler did

Indirectly through starvation, yes. It was mass-murder, not genocide, since he wasn't targeting a specific race.

It was genocide, he specifically targeted a religious group and killed them. "Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group" (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

I'm aware of what constitutes genocide, however I was not aware that Mao Zedong targeted a specific religious group.

He targeted everyone xD


My understanding was that in addition to the descenters who were rounded up and killed, up to 50,000 million people died of starvation due to his rule.

50,000 million...I'm pretty sure that's to big. A lot of people died directly and indirectly. He basically "cleansed" China of the old regime.
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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7/10/2012 4:22:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 3:55:35 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:47:58 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:42:27 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:41:03 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:36:19 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Killed more people than Hitler did

Indirectly through starvation, yes. It was mass-murder, not genocide, since he wasn't targeting a specific race.

It was genocide, he specifically targeted a religious group and killed them. "Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group" (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

I'm aware of what constitutes genocide, however I was not aware that Mao Zedong targeted a specific religious group.

He targeted everyone xD


My understanding was that in addition to the descenters who were rounded up and killed, up to 50,000 million people died of starvation due to his rule.

50,000 million...I'm pretty sure that's to big. A lot of people died directly and indirectly. He basically "cleansed" China of the old regime.

Yeah, actually the number was closer to 40 million... lol, my bad.

My point was that what he did was not genocide but mass-murder. I think that the word genocide gets tossed around a lot by people who use it to define any mass killing. I'm still waiting to be informed of what religious group those 40 million people supposedly belonged to.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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7/10/2012 4:27:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 4:22:52 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:55:35 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:47:58 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:42:27 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:41:03 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:36:19 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Killed more people than Hitler did

Indirectly through starvation, yes. It was mass-murder, not genocide, since he wasn't targeting a specific race.

It was genocide, he specifically targeted a religious group and killed them. "Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group" (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

I'm aware of what constitutes genocide, however I was not aware that Mao Zedong targeted a specific religious group.

He targeted everyone xD


My understanding was that in addition to the descenters who were rounded up and killed, up to 50,000 million people died of starvation due to his rule.

50,000 million...I'm pretty sure that's to big. A lot of people died directly and indirectly. He basically "cleansed" China of the old regime.

Yeah, actually the number was closer to 40 million... lol, my bad.

My point was that what he did was not genocide but mass-murder. I think that the word genocide gets tossed around a lot by people who use it to define any mass killing. I'm still waiting to be informed of what religious group those 40 million people supposedly belonged to.

Ok, bad wording. What I'm trying to say is that your earlier statement, that he targeted a religious group, is not true. As you said immediately afterwards, he targeted everyone, or at least everyone who stood in his way or happened to suffer from his policies which caused the starvation. Thus, it was not genocide.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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7/11/2012 6:46:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 12:20:54 PM, Cermank wrote:
The point of the topic is?

To spread awareness. Not to debate. We don't need a history forum.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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7/11/2012 7:13:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 6:46:18 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 7/11/2012 12:20:54 PM, Cermank wrote:
The point of the topic is?

To spread awareness. Not to debate. We don't need a history forum.

There is plenty of room to debate history.
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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7/11/2012 11:47:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 7:13:24 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 7/11/2012 6:46:18 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 7/11/2012 12:20:54 PM, Cermank wrote:
The point of the topic is?

To spread awareness. Not to debate. We don't need a history forum.

There is plenty of room to debate history.

Exactly.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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7/12/2012 7:28:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It was genocide, he specifically targeted a religious group and killed them. "Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group" (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

I'm aware of what constitutes genocide, however I was not aware that Mao Zedong targeted a specific religious group.

He targeted everyone xD


My understanding was that in addition to the descenters who were rounded up and killed, up to 50,000 million people died of starvation due to his rule.

50,000 million...I'm pretty sure that's to big. A lot of people died directly and indirectly. He basically "cleansed" China of the old regime.

Yeah, actually the number was closer to 40 million... lol, my bad.

My point was that what he did was not genocide but mass-murder. I think that the word genocide gets tossed around a lot by people who use it to define any mass killing. I'm still waiting to be informed of what religious group those 40 million people supposedly belonged to.

Ok, bad wording. What I'm trying to say is that your earlier statement, that he targeted a religious group, is not true. As you said immediately afterwards, he targeted everyone, or at least everyone who stood in his way or happened to suffer from his policies which caused the starvation. Thus, it was not genocide.

But, wasn't a major part of the cultural revolution (I believe that is what it was called) to destroy the old government and its supporters as well as anyone with well...money. He also killed all of the religious dissenters, etc. So could we not classify the old government supporters and people with money as a national group?
Cermank
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7/12/2012 7:47:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 7:28:47 AM, THEBOMB wrote:


But, wasn't a major part of the cultural revolution (I believe that is what it was called) to destroy the old government and its supporters as well as anyone with well...money. He also killed all of the religious dissenters, etc. So could we not classify the old government supporters and people with money as a national group?

Technically, it can be considered a genocide- because genocide does include inflicting mental tortures on people in a specific group. However genocide is generally associated with deliberate killing of a specific group in a society, at least in its modern usage. Mao Zedong's policies weren't blatant targetted killing. It was hidden under the veil of 'reforming' them, and they weren't exclusively killed as a policy, they were killed usually 'because' of the policies, as a by- product of bad policies. Many of the deaths were suicides because of discriminatory laws targetting the rich. Thus the cultural revolution isn't genocide in the general sense , but legally it can be considered a genocide.
THEBOMB
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7/12/2012 10:53:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 7:47:15 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 7/12/2012 7:28:47 AM, THEBOMB wrote:


But, wasn't a major part of the cultural revolution (I believe that is what it was called) to destroy the old government and its supporters as well as anyone with well...money. He also killed all of the religious dissenters, etc. So could we not classify the old government supporters and people with money as a national group?

Technically, it can be considered a genocide- because genocide does include inflicting mental tortures on people in a specific group. However genocide is generally associated with deliberate killing of a specific group in a society, at least in its modern usage. Mao Zedong's policies weren't blatant targetted killing. It was hidden under the veil of 'reforming' them, and they weren't exclusively killed as a policy, they were killed usually 'because' of the policies, as a by- product of bad policies. Many of the deaths were suicides because of discriminatory laws targetting the rich. Thus the cultural revolution isn't genocide in the general sense , but legally it can be considered a genocide.

In other words, it was a genocide, but it wasn't a genocide. xD
Cermank
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7/13/2012 6:00:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 10:53:19 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 7/12/2012 7:47:15 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 7/12/2012 7:28:47 AM, THEBOMB wrote:


But, wasn't a major part of the cultural revolution (I believe that is what it was called) to destroy the old government and its supporters as well as anyone with well...money. He also killed all of the religious dissenters, etc. So could we not classify the old government supporters and people with money as a national group?

Technically, it can be considered a genocide- because genocide does include inflicting mental tortures on people in a specific group. However genocide is generally associated with deliberate killing of a specific group in a society, at least in its modern usage. Mao Zedong's policies weren't blatant targetted killing. It was hidden under the veil of 'reforming' them, and they weren't exclusively killed as a policy, they were killed usually 'because' of the policies, as a by- product of bad policies. Many of the deaths were suicides because of discriminatory laws targetting the rich. Thus the cultural revolution isn't genocide in the general sense , but legally it can be considered a genocide.

In other words, it was a genocide, but it wasn't a genocide. xD

Haha, well... in a sense.

It was a genocide if you are too technical about the definition of genocide.

It wasn't if you go by it's more popular socially acceptable definition.
Tnkissfan
Posts: 199
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7/23/2012 5:28:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 3:47:58 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:42:27 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:41:03 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:36:19 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Killed more people than Hitler did

Indirectly through starvation, yes. It was mass-murder, not genocide, since he wasn't targeting a specific race.

It was genocide, he specifically targeted a religious group and killed them. "Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group" (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

I'm aware of what constitutes genocide, however I was not aware that Mao Zedong targeted a specific religious group.

My understanding was that in addition to the descenters who were rounded up and killed, up to 50,000 million people died of starvation due to his rule.

"I'm aware of what constitutes genocide, however I was not aware that Mao Zedong targeted a specific religious group"

Anti-Christian Campaigns (1950s)
Throughout this period, the Communists launched an attack on the Christian church and other religious groups. While researcher James T. Myers of the University of South Carolina says it is impossible to know exactly how many Christians were targeted for death, certainly many thousands lost their lives.
http://www.paulbogdanor.com...

FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/23/2012 7:49:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The standard of living in China also climbed so dramatically that the population still sharply increased.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
1dustpelt
Posts: 1,970
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7/24/2012 12:53:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Today, the CPC is still persecuting certain religious and belief groups. People who practice Falun Gong are still being round up and arrested. The guy who started it disappeared.
Wall of LOL
"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
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7/24/2012 8:11:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/23/2012 5:28:36 PM, Tnkissfan wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:47:58 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:42:27 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:41:03 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/10/2012 3:36:19 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Killed more people than Hitler did

Indirectly through starvation, yes. It was mass-murder, not genocide, since he wasn't targeting a specific race.

It was genocide, he specifically targeted a religious group and killed them. "Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group" (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

I'm aware of what constitutes genocide, however I was not aware that Mao Zedong targeted a specific religious group.

My understanding was that in addition to the descenters who were rounded up and killed, up to 50,000 million people died of starvation due to his rule.


"I'm aware of what constitutes genocide, however I was not aware that Mao Zedong targeted a specific religious group"


Anti-Christian Campaigns (1950s)
Throughout this period, the Communists launched an attack on the Christian church and other religious groups. While researcher James T. Myers of the University of South Carolina says it is impossible to know exactly how many Christians were targeted for death, certainly many thousands lost their lives.
http://www.paulbogdanor.com...



I was not aware of that. Thanks for providing the info.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Volkskorps
Posts: 61
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10/26/2012 9:17:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 3:36:19 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Killed more people than Hitler did

I agree... if failed policies and lack of knowledge of the magnitude of the consequences of the failed policies counts as genocide.