Total Posts:14|Showing Posts:1-14
Jump to topic:

Why did Prussia go extinct and Germany surviv

1dustpelt
Posts: 1,970
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/15/2012 4:57:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Unlike the Austrians and the Hungarians, the Prussians failed to survive and instead the Germans live till today.Why abandon the identification as Prussians and instead call themselves as Germans?
Wall of LOL
"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
imabench
Posts: 21,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/15/2012 9:56:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
didnt the germans conquer Prussia in the 1200's?
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/15/2012 10:51:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I remember always hearing about this Prussia when I was younger, and never seeing it on the map, and being so confused.....
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/16/2012 2:19:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I can't be bothered to give a proper history lesson, but briefly:

The concept of Germanic people can be traced back Julius Caesar referring to the area just east of the river Rhine as Germania, distinguished from Gaul, which had been conquered. In this sense, one might conceive the idea that Germany originally covered a specified area, and Prussia did not fill this entire area.

Of course, the concept of a unified Germany, or even the conception of a 'German' state wasn't taken seriously until the 1800s. Then, many German states (note the idea of area, but also people descended from those who occupied said area in earlier times) later unified. Basically, Prussia was the dominant part of the newly created Germany, but it wasn't the only part.

Really though, there are many, many places to research this in real depth.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/16/2012 3:06:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 4:57:28 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Unlike the Austrians and the Hungarians, the Prussians failed to survive and instead the Germans live till today.Why abandon the identification as Prussians and instead call themselves as Germans?

The Prussians are Germans, who were led to unity under Otto Von Bismark (first for Germany) which was a collection of kingdoms. This was a result of a negotiation blunder made by Napoleon III causing the Franco-Prussian War (Otto Von Bimark had them sign a contract claiming they wanted the Rhineland if memory serves me correct) thus causing the neighboring states to unify militarily immediately, upon various successes, Bismark eventually had his Germany

The best I can remember.
Thank you for voting!
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/16/2012 3:08:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/16/2012 3:06:38 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 8/15/2012 4:57:28 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Unlike the Austrians and the Hungarians, the Prussians failed to survive and instead the Germans live till today.Why abandon the identification as Prussians and instead call themselves as Germans?

The Prussians are Germans, who were led to unity under Otto Von Bismark (first for Germany) which was a collection of kingdoms. This was a result of a negotiation blunder made by Napoleon III causing the Franco-Prussian War (Otto Von Bimark had them sign a contract claiming they wanted the Rhineland if memory serves me correct) thus causing the neighboring states to unify militarily immediately, upon various successes, Bismark eventually had his Germany

The best I can remember.

Sorry just checked it was the result of the Ems Dispatch, in which Bismark altered a telegram to make it look like Prussia's King was treated in a demeaning fashion by Napoleon III
Thank you for voting!
NixonianVolkswagen
Posts: 481
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2012 2:56:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/16/2012 3:08:52 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 8/16/2012 3:06:38 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 8/15/2012 4:57:28 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Unlike the Austrians and the Hungarians, the Prussians failed to survive and instead the Germans live till today.Why abandon the identification as Prussians and instead call themselves as Germans?

The Prussians are Germans, who were led to unity under Otto Von Bismark (first for Germany) which was a collection of kingdoms. This was a result of a negotiation blunder made by Napoleon III causing the Franco-Prussian War (Otto Von Bimark had them sign a contract claiming they wanted the Rhineland if memory serves me correct) thus causing the neighboring states to unify militarily immediately, upon various successes, Bismark eventually had his Germany

The best I can remember.


Sorry just checked it was the result of the Ems Dispatch, in which Bismark altered a telegram to make it look like Prussia's King was treated in a demeaning fashion by Napoleon III

I had heard that Bismark was a genius, I just hadn't realized that his genius so much resembled college-level exam-cheating.
"There is an almost universal tendency, perhaps an inborn tendency, to suspect the good faith of a man who holds opinions that differ from our own opinions."

- Karl "Spartacus" Popper
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2012 5:13:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 9:56:20 PM, imabench wrote:
didnt the germans conquer Prussia in the 1200's?

No, as Prussia was a large force in the 1800s and their mercenaries fought us in the revolution. However Germany was at war with them.

Prussia was the strongest and largest German kingdom, and many of the smaller city states where absorbed by them, and the Prussians organized and very effective troops where able to subdue many of the states. It eventually made a German empire. In 1871 they became the German Empire.

It was only a name change.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
OllerupMand
Posts: 375
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2012 5:54:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/15/2012 4:57:28 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Unlike the Austrians and the Hungarians, the Prussians failed to survive and instead the Germans live till today.Why abandon the identification as Prussians and instead call themselves as Germans?

Some of the other writters have already said alot about this, but I will just put in a bit more.

Long time ago the Teutonic knights where happily trying to convert heathens around the baltic sea. As they rode around and converted and conquered heathens they ended up with their own state". At that time they where under the holy roman emperor, of the holy roman empirer, that would latter become germany, and the Pope. They where latter joined by the Swordbretheren to form a mighty kingdom, but after some hundred years they lost alot of wars to Poland and Lithuania and ended up becoming a dutchy in Poland.

In 1500-something the leader of the Teutonic knights decides to make the state a normal Protestant dutchy, with him ruling it as a normal dutchy. As he was no longer a Teutonic knight he could produce legimate heirs. As he came from the Brandenburg family it only took a couple of generations before we got Brandenburg-Prussia, now under the holy roman empire and not polish kingdom.

Three hundred years latter it is just called Prussia again and it is now a kingdom inside the Holy Roman Empire. A very strong kimgdom, but not as strong as Austria. Then Napoleon destroys the Holy Roman Empire with his military might. The napoleonic wars leaves a weakened Austria, a stronger Prussia and a whole lot of small germans stats with no protection. The next hundred years goes with Prussia and Austria battling out how the new german nation is going to look. Should it be a large Catholic nation lead by Austria or a smaller protestant nation lead by Prussia. One invasion of Denmark and many minor german nations latter Austria is pushed out of the good company and partners up with Hungary as Prussia reunits the old Holy Roman Empire into Germany, with the capital in Berlin, the capital of Prussia.

And this just shows that my country have been in to many wars with Prussia when I know their history that well.
OllerupMand
Posts: 375
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/17/2012 6:53:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I realised I should properly continue my story until the destruction of Prussia. The German Empire formed by Prussia was a Confederation and the latter Weimar republic was a federation, so Prussia survived, not as a country, but as a state. When the Third Rich lost WW II and Germany was separated into zones, Russia gained Prussia and make the territory easier to control they separated it into Brandenburg, Berlin and another state which I can't remember.

After the German reunification there have been some talk about reuniting Berlin and Brandenburg to one State and call it Prussia, but it never happened.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/20/2012 11:11:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/17/2012 5:54:05 PM, OllerupMand wrote:
At 8/15/2012 4:57:28 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Unlike the Austrians and the Hungarians, the Prussians failed to survive and instead the Germans live till today.Why abandon the identification as Prussians and instead call themselves as Germans?

Some of the other writters have already said alot about this, but I will just put in a bit more.

Long time ago the Teutonic knights where happily trying to convert heathens around the baltic sea. As they rode around and converted and conquered heathens they ended up with their own state". At that time they where under the holy roman emperor, of the holy roman empirer, that would latter become germany, and the Pope. They where latter joined by the Swordbretheren to form a mighty kingdom, but after some hundred years they lost alot of wars to Poland and Lithuania and ended up becoming a dutchy in Poland.

In 1500-something the leader of the Teutonic knights decides to make the state a normal Protestant dutchy, with him ruling it as a normal dutchy. As he was no longer a Teutonic knight he could produce legimate heirs. As he came from the Brandenburg family it only took a couple of generations before we got Brandenburg-Prussia, now under the holy roman empire and not polish kingdom.

Three hundred years latter it is just called Prussia again and it is now a kingdom inside the Holy Roman Empire. A very strong kimgdom, but not as strong as Austria. Then Napoleon destroys the Holy Roman Empire with his military might. The napoleonic wars leaves a weakened Austria, a stronger Prussia and a whole lot of small germans stats with no protection. The next hundred years goes with Prussia and Austria battling out how the new german nation is going to look. Should it be a large Catholic nation lead by Austria or a smaller protestant nation lead by Prussia. One invasion of Denmark and many minor german nations latter Austria is pushed out of the good company and partners up with Hungary as Prussia reunits the old Holy Roman Empire into Germany, with the capital in Berlin, the capital of Prussia.

And this just shows that my country have been in to many wars with Prussia when I know their history that well.

Thanks for the history lesson. I've had the question what happened to Prussia for a long time.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2012 8:18:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
All of what has been said is true, except that I'm pretty sure unification of Germany was very much wanted by the majority. The debate was on The German Question between the Großdeutsche Lösung (Greater German solution) or the Kleindeutsche Lösung (Smaller German solution) (AND NOT THE FINAL SOLUTION I CANNOT MAKE THIS CLEAR ENOUGH).
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
OllerupMand
Posts: 375
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2012 5:42:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/24/2012 8:18:28 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
All of what has been said is true, except that I'm pretty sure unification of Germany was very much wanted by the majority. The debate was on The German Question between the Großdeutsche Lösung (Greater German solution) or the Kleindeutsche Lösung (Smaller German solution) (AND NOT THE FINAL SOLUTION I CANNOT MAKE THIS CLEAR ENOUGH).

I totally agree there. As long as we remember that that sometimes they argued with sword, rifles and cannons ;)