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Where did Hannibal get his elephants?

MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/11/2012 5:59:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There were no elephants native to North Africa at the time of the Second Punic War. Maybe Egypt or Syria?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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9/11/2012 8:49:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://www.nytimes.com...

This might help, though I don't think it gives an answer really.
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MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/11/2012 8:51:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 8:49:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

This might help, though I don't think it gives an answer really.

Read it already. I'm asking people who already know a bit about the Punic Wars. Just want opinions.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
OberHerr
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9/11/2012 8:52:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 8:51:09 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/11/2012 8:49:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

This might help, though I don't think it gives an answer really.

Read it already. I'm asking people who already know a bit about the Punic Wars. Just want opinions.

I would guess it was a secret weapon sorta thing. Prably heard about them, went out to find some, got some, bread them in captivity, boom, instant fighting force.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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9/11/2012 9:12:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
He (might have) got them from Asia. At that time not enough African elephaunts were tamed to be used for his army (he had 37, 17 died in the alps, so 20).

However it's possible he got them from the mountains in Morocco.

I think most of them where African as its unlikelyhe could have shipped them from the far Indus (Pakistan/Indian area). I say likely Mid-Africa region.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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9/11/2012 9:28:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 8:52:28 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 9/11/2012 8:51:09 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/11/2012 8:49:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

This might help, though I don't think it gives an answer really.

Read it already. I'm asking people who already know a bit about the Punic Wars. Just want opinions.

I would guess it was a secret weapon sorta thing. Prably heard about them, went out to find some, got some, bread them in captivity, boom, instant fighting force.

No proof of that. The only area with enough vegetation for that (near them) was Egypt. No evidence, to my knowledge, confirms that.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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9/11/2012 9:50:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Nobody knows exactly where they came from, it's a mystery. But, they were from either India (he wanted them) or sub Saharan Africa.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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9/11/2012 9:52:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 9:50:03 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
Nobody knows exactly where they came from, it's a mystery. But, they were from either India (he wanted them) or sub Saharan Africa.

Imagery from coins and such look like African elephaunts (they look different), so it's unlikely India.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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9/11/2012 10:12:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 9:52:03 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:50:03 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
Nobody knows exactly where they came from, it's a mystery. But, they were from either India (he wanted them) or sub Saharan Africa.

Imagery from coins and such look like African elephaunts (they look different), so it's unlikely India.

You're basing your assertion on 1000+ year old coins which have deteriorated over the years?
OllerupMand
Posts: 375
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9/12/2012 2:35:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 5:59:46 PM, MouthWash wrote:
There were no elephants native to North Africa at the time of the Second Punic War. Maybe Egypt or Syria?

Why couldn't it be the North African elephant? As far as I know Loxodonta africana pharaoensis was first extinct after the Romans had conquered North Africa.

http://www.dr.dk...

To save your google translation skills, it says that Sarus(Hannibals favorit elephant) was properly Indian, while the other Elephants was properly North African.
16kadams
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9/12/2012 6:59:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 10:12:29 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:52:03 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:50:03 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
Nobody knows exactly where they came from, it's a mystery. But, they were from either India (he wanted them) or sub Saharan Africa.

Imagery from coins and such look like African elephaunts (they look different), so it's unlikely India.

You're basing your assertion on 1000+ year old coins which have deteriorated over the years?

Many coins stay in good condition, and there are huge differences you can see from the different types of elephaunts which a little ware won't harm.

Coins where built better back then :P
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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9/12/2012 7:52:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 6:59:29 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 9/11/2012 10:12:29 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:52:03 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:50:03 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
Nobody knows exactly where they came from, it's a mystery. But, they were from either India (he wanted them) or sub Saharan Africa.

Imagery from coins and such look like African elephaunts (they look different), so it's unlikely India.

You're basing your assertion on 1000+ year old coins which have deteriorated over the years?

Many coins stay in good condition, and there are huge differences you can see from the different types of elephaunts which a little ware won't harm.

I don't see how it's possible to get that much detail from a 1000+ year old coin...


Coins where built better back then :P

That's true..
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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9/12/2012 9:08:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/11/2012 9:28:42 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 9/11/2012 8:52:28 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 9/11/2012 8:51:09 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/11/2012 8:49:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

This might help, though I don't think it gives an answer really.

Read it already. I'm asking people who already know a bit about the Punic Wars. Just want opinions.

I would guess it was a secret weapon sorta thing. Prably heard about them, went out to find some, got some, bread them in captivity, boom, instant fighting force.

No proof of that. The only area with enough vegetation for that (near them) was Egypt. No evidence, to my knowledge, confirms that.

I simplified it, but honestly, their is no proof he actually got the elephants. We only know he rode them into battle, if that wasn't irrefutable, I would say its a myth. So, any guess is a good one.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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9/15/2012 12:23:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There were no elephants native to North Africa at the time of the Second Punic War.
This is incorrect. Elephants could be found as far north as Syria prior to 100 BC and I'm sure elephants didn't die out of Numidia before the shift into CE.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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9/16/2012 4:22:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 7:52:58 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 9/12/2012 6:59:29 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 9/11/2012 10:12:29 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:52:03 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:50:03 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
Nobody knows exactly where they came from, it's a mystery. But, they were from either India (he wanted them) or sub Saharan Africa.

Imagery from coins and such look like African elephaunts (they look different), so it's unlikely India.

You're basing your assertion on 1000+ year old coins which have deteriorated over the years?

Many coins stay in good condition, and there are huge differences you can see from the different types of elephaunts which a little ware won't harm.

I don't see how it's possible to get that much detail from a 1000+ year old coin...+

Size
The two humps on the head vs 1

Its not very hard...



Coins where built better back then :P

That's true..
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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9/16/2012 4:24:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/12/2012 9:08:42 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 9/11/2012 9:28:42 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 9/11/2012 8:52:28 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 9/11/2012 8:51:09 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/11/2012 8:49:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

This might help, though I don't think it gives an answer really.

Read it already. I'm asking people who already know a bit about the Punic Wars. Just want opinions.

I would guess it was a secret weapon sorta thing. Prably heard about them, went out to find some, got some, bread them in captivity, boom, instant fighting force.

No proof of that. The only area with enough vegetation for that (near them) was Egypt. No evidence, to my knowledge, confirms that.

I simplified it, but honestly, their is no proof he actually got the elephants. We only know he rode them into battle, if that wasn't irrefutable, I would say its a myth. So, any guess is a good one.

The Egypt theory implies he got them from asia and he got them fro egypt, however coin evidence refutes that point.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross