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Russia's Military History

1Historygenius
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12/5/2012 6:01:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't mean to ban on Russians and I do feel that they have a great country, but while they do have a large military, their military history is not exactly great when referring to modern times. Look at the modern wars:

Russo-Japanese War - Lost
World War 1 - Lost
Polish-Bolshevik War - Lost
World War 2 - Victory
Afghan War - Lost
Cold War - Lost

We won't count the revolution and the civil war because that was mainly russian vs. russian. It seems they have not had a good military history in modern times.
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OberHerr
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12/5/2012 6:45:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You sorta forgot the earlier wars, but yes, Russians, while fierce and brave, are overrated militarily.
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lewis20
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12/5/2012 6:53:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Cold war was a war? Everyone would be dead if it had been.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

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Ron-Paul
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12/5/2012 9:28:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yes, the Russians could be a lot better fighters; they just need to get better generals who know modern tactics. Russia has always seemed to be slow on the draw.
TheOrator
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12/5/2012 10:18:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/5/2012 6:53:37 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Cold war was a war? Everyone would be dead if it had been.

It was a conflict between two superpowers where they fought in several smaller conflicts until one of the two powers collapsed. Although war was never declared between the two, well, to quote my History teacher "Although it was never official, there were a suspicious amount of Koreans with blonde hair and blue eyes flying their jets". And to quote my Uncle "Well, we were never scared of getting attacked by the russians, but we were definately scared of being one of the dozens of subs that experienced an 'accident' close to the Russians.".
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lewis20
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12/6/2012 11:47:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I still don't think you consider the cold war a war. Soviet union collapsed because of communism, not the proxy wars it fought with the US.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

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1Historygenius
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12/6/2012 9:56:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 6:45:05 PM, OberHerr wrote:
You sorta forgot the earlier wars, but yes, Russians, while fierce and brave, are overrated militarily.

I was only giving recent years, but yes the got their butts kicked in earlier wars to.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

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1Historygenius
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12/6/2012 10:02:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/6/2012 11:47:18 AM, lewis20 wrote:
I still don't think you consider the cold war a war. Soviet union collapsed because of communism, not the proxy wars it fought with the US.

Economic point of view is only one point in war.
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lewis20
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12/6/2012 10:32:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/6/2012 10:02:24 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 12/6/2012 11:47:18 AM, lewis20 wrote:
I still don't think you consider the cold war a war. Soviet union collapsed because of communism, not the proxy wars it fought with the US.

Economic point of view is only one point in war.

Economics might go hand in hand but the dictionary definition of war is an armed conflict.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
OllerupMand
Posts: 375
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12/7/2012 3:11:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well your having a small handpicked list of wars. It is like saying lets look at American wars and then only look at the Vietnam war. Which Russia won?

Here is a bit longer list, but I am pretty sure that there is missing quit a number of the more modern small scale wars.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
innomen
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12/7/2012 4:25:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Soviets really weren't about hot wars, although they engaged in many proxy wars. Lenin's "peaceful coexistence" was a truthful policy in how they were to deal with capitalist countries. Adventurism, that is to say, making gains through military conquest was not how they were to deal with their main adversaries. They did have a desire to expand, but it would be done through different methods.
1Historygenius
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12/7/2012 10:23:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/7/2012 3:11:46 AM, OllerupMand wrote:
Well your having a small handpicked list of wars. It is like saying lets look at American wars and then only look at the Vietnam war. Which Russia won?

Here is a bit longer list, but I am pretty sure that there is missing quit a number of the more modern small scale wars.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The USSR did send supplies and a small amount of troops to Vietnam, but their role was not major which is why I did not really include them. In fact, President Nixon's actions in detente moved the Soviets away from supporting N. Vietnam.
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tBoonePickens
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12/7/2012 11:06:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 6:01:33 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
It seems they have not had a good military history in modern times.
Agreed.

***************************

At 12/5/2012 6:53:37 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Cold war was a war?
Hence the name.

Everyone would be dead if it had been.
Non sequitur.

Soviet union collapsed because of communism, not the proxy wars it fought with the US.
Failure to see the big picture

*****************************

At 12/7/2012 3:23:20 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Relevant: http://cdn.motinetwork.net...
Very relevant. Lol!
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: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
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Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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12/10/2012 1:11:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 6:01:33 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
I don't mean to ban on Russians and I do feel that they have a great country, but while they do have a large military, their military history is not exactly great when referring to modern times. Look at the modern wars:

Russo-Japanese War - Lost
World War 1 - Lost
Polish-Bolshevik War - Lost
World War 2 - Victory
Afghan War - Lost
Cold War - Lost

We won't count the revolution and the civil war because that was mainly russian vs. russian. It seems they have not had a good military history in modern times.

You forgot the Georgian Conflict. Russia decimated the Georgian Army in only a few days. And they are totally raping Chechnya. It was pretty fun watching the footage on the news and a few places on the internet. Russia has a pretty good or military or rather it did have a pretty good military (it lost it with the collapse of the Soviet Union). However, they if you take recent conflicts with our country, the USA, then you will see it is about the same. We didn't when the Korean War, we lost the Vietnam war and we won the WW2 and the Iraq. So far our military record is about the same as Russia's (in modern times at least). If we were to look at years before WW1 then you would see that Russia was pretty good. Here is a few:

1. The war against Napoleon.
2. Great Northern War.
3. Seven Years War
4. Russo-Turkish War.

One also has to look at the magnitude of WW2. Russia had half of it's country demolished and still destroyed Germany (one of the most powerful countries at that time). They conquered several countries including Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, etc.

They also destroyed the Japanese in Mongolia and Manchuria.

So, Russia has a pretty good military history. I only wish their military was still as good as it was 30 years ago. Now it is suffering budget cuts and is having tons of setbacks while it is trying to modernize.
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Volkskorps
Posts: 61
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12/10/2012 5:00:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Good points, but the OP was referring solely to modern times.

I think this would be a more fair and complete list:

Russo-Japanese War - Lost
World War 1 - Lost
Polish-Bolshevik War - Lost
-It should be noted that was more or less Russia's century of humiliation
Ukraine-Soviet war - Won
Lithuanian-Soviet War - Lost
Azerbaijan-Soviet War - Won
Georgian-Soviet War - Won
1932-1939 various conflicts against Japan - Won, crushed the latter numerous times
1929-1937 Manzhouli and various wars against China - Won, Ceasefire in 1 of them
Soviet Invasion of Finland - Tie objectively but lost or won (depending how you subjectively view it but more or less a loss with severe casualties and little gain)
Soviet Invasion of Poland (for the USSR it wasn't a part of WW2) - Victory
1945 Invasion against Japan and Manchukou (not part of WW2, the Soviets and Japanese and Manchukou were at peace) - Victory
World War 2 - Victory
Korean War - War resulted in ceasefire but it should be noted that the Soviets did complete its original objectives. Militarily won or lost is up to which side 's aerial warfare records you find more appealing or believable.
Stalin's Defensive War against Martians - Won
Afghan War - Lost
Cold War - Lost
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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12/11/2012 12:16:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 6:01:33 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
I don't mean to ban on Russians and I do feel that they have a great country, but while they do have a large military, their military history is not exactly great when referring to modern times. Look at the modern wars:

Russo-Japanese War - Lost

Yes.

World War 1 - Lost

Well, there were some domestic political problems that contributed -like the Bolshevik Revolution.

Polish-Bolshevik War - Lost

Yeah, that was bad.

World War 2 - Victory

But at an astronomical cost.

Afghan War - Lost

Not really.

Cold War - Lost

I don't think there was a winner or a loser to the Cold War. The USSR dissolved and were better for it. The US emerged as the preeminent authority in what became a unipolar hegemonic order. This seems to be benefiting everyone.

We won't count the revolution and the civil war because that was mainly russian vs. russian. It seems they have not had a good military history in modern times.

They make the best ammunition on earth, however, for small arms. Just sayin'
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OberHerr
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12/11/2012 2:16:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 12:16:28 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/5/2012 6:01:33 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
Afghan War - Lost

Not really.

Explain.


Cold War - Lost

I don't think there was a winner or a loser to the Cold War. The USSR dissolved and were better for it. The US emerged as the preeminent authority in what became a unipolar hegemonic order. This seems to be benefiting everyone.

Irrelevant if it was probably good for Russia, they still lost.
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YYW
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12/11/2012 3:31:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 2:16:28 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 12/11/2012 12:16:28 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/5/2012 6:01:33 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
Afghan War - Lost

Not really.

Explain.

This is another case where "winner" and "looser" aren't really appropriate. Gorbachev ended Soviet presence there, but the USSR was aligned with the then-standing government in Afghanistan to fight the Mujahideen and Taliban. So, if win/loss becomes the maintenance and control of a government, no one won, because Afghanistan essentially became a failed state after Gorbachev withdrew. That, btw. wasn't the goal of the Mujahideen either. No one "won." No one really "lost" either because there was no "winner" -only a generation of chaos and wasted government resources, not to mention lives on both sides.


Cold War - Lost

I don't think there was a winner or a loser to the Cold War. The USSR dissolved and were better for it. The US emerged as the preeminent authority in what became a unipolar hegemonic order. This seems to be benefiting everyone.

Irrelevant if it was probably good for Russia, they still lost.

What does "loosing" mean to you?
Tsar of DDO
DanT
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12/11/2012 10:23:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2012 6:01:33 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
I don't mean to ban on Russians and I do feel that they have a great country, but while they do have a large military, their military history is not exactly great when referring to modern times. Look at the modern wars:

Russo-Japanese War - Lost
World War 1 - Lost
Polish-Bolshevik War - Lost
World War 2 - Victory
Only because they switched sides after Hitler backstabed them. Prior to 1941 the USSR was officially neutral but unofficially allied with Germany. They had a secret agreement with the Germans, where they divided Europe between the USSR and the Third Reich; just as the Japanese divided the Globe between the Japanese Empire and the Third Reich. The USSR even returned escaping Jews to the Nazis.
Stalin believed National-Socialism would eventually lead to Communism, due to the shared socialist ideologies. The USSR favored the Third Reich, and the Italian Social Republic because they were socialist states, whereas the allied powers forces were capitalist. When the National Socialist countries in the European Axis of Evil invaded the USSR, the USSR was forced to side with their capitalist enemies, because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Afghan War - Lost
Cold War - Lost

We won't count the revolution and the civil war because that was mainly russian vs. russian. It seems they have not had a good military history in modern times.

They only do good when fools try to invade them with a large infantry force. Home field advantage, especially with the Russian winters. The USSR has an area of 8,649,538 sq miles; by comparison the US has an area of 3,794,101 sq miles and the EU has an area of 1,669,807 sq miles. Pretty bold move to invade a country that big. On top of their land advantage, they have natural defenses, not to mention the world's largest military at the time.
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1Historygenius
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12/16/2012 4:55:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/10/2012 5:00:10 AM, Volkskorps wrote:
Good points, but the OP was referring solely to modern times.

I think this would be a more fair and complete list:

Russo-Japanese War - Lost
World War 1 - Lost
Polish-Bolshevik War - Lost
-It should be noted that was more or less Russia's century of humiliation
Ukraine-Soviet war - Won
Lithuanian-Soviet War - Lost
Azerbaijan-Soviet War - Won
Georgian-Soviet War - Won
1932-1939 various conflicts against Japan - Won, crushed the latter numerous times

Not an officials war

1929-1937 Manzhouli and various wars against China - Won, Ceasefire in 1 of them
Soviet Invasion of Finland - Tie objectively but lost or won (depending how you subjectively view it but more or less a loss with severe casualties and little gain)
Soviet Invasion of Poland (for the USSR it wasn't a part of WW2) - Victory

I don't think they were even contested.

1945 Invasion against Japan and Manchukou (not part of WW2, the Soviets and Japanese and Manchukou were at peace) - Victory

Your making several small technicalities. FDR wanted Stalin to join WW2 in Asia and Stalin did.

World War 2 - Victory

Its important to remember that we gave the Soviets important supplies.

Korean War - War resulted in ceasefire but it should be noted that the Soviets did complete its original objectives. Militarily won or lost is up to which side 's aerial warfare records you find more appealing or believable.

The war has not ended, there is still no victory.

Stalin's Defensive War against Martians - Won

Not real. Assuming you mean Stalin vs. Martians video game.

Afghan War - Lost
Cold War - Lost
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

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1Historygenius
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12/16/2012 4:57:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/11/2012 3:31:46 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:16:28 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 12/11/2012 12:16:28 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/5/2012 6:01:33 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
Afghan War - Lost

Not really.

Explain.

This is another case where "winner" and "looser" aren't really appropriate. Gorbachev ended Soviet presence there, but the USSR was aligned with the then-standing government in Afghanistan to fight the Mujahideen and Taliban. So, if win/loss becomes the maintenance and control of a government, no one won, because Afghanistan essentially became a failed state after Gorbachev withdrew. That, btw. wasn't the goal of the Mujahideen either. No one "won." No one really "lost" either because there was no "winner" -only a generation of chaos and wasted government resources, not to mention lives on both sides.

Sounds like Vietnam.



Cold War - Lost

I don't think there was a winner or a loser to the Cold War. The USSR dissolved and were better for it. The US emerged as the preeminent authority in what became a unipolar hegemonic order. This seems to be benefiting everyone.

Irrelevant if it was probably good for Russia, they still lost.

What does "loosing" mean to you?
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
Volkskorps
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12/19/2012 2:57:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Not an officials war"

Explain.

"Your making several small technicalities. FDR wanted Stalin to join WW2 in Asia and Stalin did."

War or not, I am not interested. Just merely pulling out examples of Soviet military triumphs.

"I don't think they were even contested."

Irrelevant.
YYW
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12/22/2012 7:20:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/16/2012 4:57:52 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
At 12/11/2012 3:31:46 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/11/2012 2:16:28 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 12/11/2012 12:16:28 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/5/2012 6:01:33 PM, 1Historygenius wrote:
Afghan War - Lost

Not really.

Explain.

This is another case where "winner" and "looser" aren't really appropriate. Gorbachev ended Soviet presence there, but the USSR was aligned with the then-standing government in Afghanistan to fight the Mujahideen and Taliban. So, if win/loss becomes the maintenance and control of a government, no one won, because Afghanistan essentially became a failed state after Gorbachev withdrew. That, btw. wasn't the goal of the Mujahideen either. No one "won." No one really "lost" either because there was no "winner" -only a generation of chaos and wasted government resources, not to mention lives on both sides.

Sounds like Vietnam.

That's not an entirely inaccurate analogy.




Cold War - Lost

I don't think there was a winner or a loser to the Cold War. The USSR dissolved and were better for it. The US emerged as the preeminent authority in what became a unipolar hegemonic order. This seems to be benefiting everyone.

Irrelevant if it was probably good for Russia, they still lost.

What does "loosing" mean to you?
Tsar of DDO
1Historygenius
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12/25/2012 3:30:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/19/2012 2:57:31 AM, Volkskorps wrote:
"Not an officials war"


There was no formal declaration of war at that time.

Explain.

"Your making several small technicalities. FDR wanted Stalin to join WW2 in Asia and Stalin did."

War or not, I am not interested. Just merely pulling out examples of Soviet military triumphs.

"I don't think they were even contested."

Irrelevant.
"The chief business of the American people is business." - Calvin Coolidge

Latest debate - Reagan was a better President than Obama: http://www.debate.org...
Lordknukle
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12/25/2012 3:35:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Seriously? You're saying that Russia's military is bad, while using the Cold War as an example? Contrary to Black Ops, nobody actually fought in the Cold War, so anybody's military is completely useless, no matter how strong it is. Please remove the "master historian" title from your signature; it's an embarrassment to this website and to anybody who has ever been in a social studies class and has picked up a textbook.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
OberHerr
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12/25/2012 6:36:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/25/2012 3:35:46 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Seriously? You're saying that Russia's military is bad, while using the Cold War as an example? Contrary to Black Ops, nobody actually fought in the Cold War, so anybody's military is completely useless, no matter how strong it is.

Technically, there were in fact many wars that were part of the Cold War. Just no official Russia vs. US war.

Please remove the "master historian" title from your signature; it's an embarrassment to this website and to anybody who has ever been in a social studies class and has picked up a textbook.

This x Everyone on this site.
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Lordknukle
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12/25/2012 6:56:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/25/2012 6:36:49 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 12/25/2012 3:35:46 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Seriously? You're saying that Russia's military is bad, while using the Cold War as an example? Contrary to Black Ops, nobody actually fought in the Cold War, so anybody's military is completely useless, no matter how strong it is.

Technically, there were in fact many wars that were part of the Cold War. Just no official Russia vs. US war.

Such as..?

Please remove the "master historian" title from your signature; it's an embarrassment to this website and to anybody who has ever been in a social studies class and has picked up a textbook.

This x Everyone on this site.

Also, gratz on 10k posts.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
OberHerr
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12/25/2012 8:13:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/25/2012 6:56:01 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 12/25/2012 6:36:49 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 12/25/2012 3:35:46 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Seriously? You're saying that Russia's military is bad, while using the Cold War as an example? Contrary to Black Ops, nobody actually fought in the Cold War, so anybody's military is completely useless, no matter how strong it is.

Technically, there were in fact many wars that were part of the Cold War. Just no official Russia vs. US war.

Such as..?


Afganistan-Russian War, Vietnam, I think the Korean War actually had Russians and Americans fighting in dog fights. Plus, the numerous skirmishes in small countries.

Please remove the "master historian" title from your signature; it's an embarrassment to this website and to anybody who has ever been in a social studies class and has picked up a textbook.

This x Everyone on this site.

Also, gratz on 10k posts.

=D
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

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