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The Static Universe and religion...

Ragnar
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7/14/2013 10:09:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The reading I did indicates that the Big Bang theory was held back for a time, for religious reasons of claimed atheist scientists (who were in the majority); who supported the Static Universe theory, against evidence.

First is my interpretation of the history fairly accurate? Second since many atheists insist atheism is never about faith, what is it called when something like this happens?
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llamainmypocket
Posts: 253
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7/15/2013 2:58:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Atheism is a view of the world which insists that it is correct above all others. It is a view which requires faith, as such views do. It is not a religion but it is dogmatic. It's not the absence of belief but the assertion of absence.

Atheists will dispute this, claiming that it is the absence of belief but they will assert their own beliefs upon you which shows that they are dogmatic. They will positively assert that there is no god, proving that it is not the absence of belief but a belief in absence.

I don't know anything about the introduction of the big bang to the scientific community other than it being presented by a catholic priest.
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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7/15/2013 6:35:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/14/2013 10:09:43 PM, Ragnar wrote:
The reading I did indicates that the Big Bang theory was held back for a time, for religious reasons of claimed atheist scientists (who were in the majority); who supported the Static Universe theory, against evidence.

First is my interpretation of the history fairly accurate?

Yes.

Second since many atheists insist atheism is never about faith, what is it called when something like this happens?

Desire, denial, Cognitive bias, not wanting to shake the world of science too much, etc.
Static universe theory had been accepted & other ideas built upon it, this B.B. change would be very inconvenient & embarrassing to science. People by nature are resistant to new ideas & change.
The big bang is not the only time this has happened in science (dare I say it may be happening now with ID (not to be confused with creationism). This is one of the reasons I don't put too much stock in (not to be confused with rejecting) certain "mainstream" scientific theories. In practice, science is not the pure facts & reason based discipline that it should theoretically be, it's full of politics, psychological factors, frauds, hoaxes etc.
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chui
Posts: 507
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7/15/2013 9:42:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I would say that the Big bang theory was held back by a lack of evidence. It was first proposed by Georges Lemaitre, who was a priest. It is true that some scientists were suspicious of his motives and it is unfortunate that he was verbally attacked and ostracized by them. Lemaitre himself was keen to stress that his theory was not to be taken as a literal proof of the creationist myth but was a scientific theory based on theory and evidence. At the time the only supporting evidence was Hubble's law combined with Einstein's general theory, both of which were viewed with some caution. When Penzias and Wilson accidentally found the cosmic microwave background radiation, the theory of Lemaitre's was accepted by almost all virtually overnight.
chui
Posts: 507
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7/15/2013 10:03:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 6:35:12 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:


Desire, denial, Cognitive bias, not wanting to shake the world of science too much, etc.

While human frailties do sometimes prevent scientific progress in the short term, in the long term science progresses in a rational fashion. How do I know this? Because science works, for example the computer in front of you is working.(If its not working you wont be able to read this so Ha!)

The big bang is not the only time this has happened in science (dare I say it may be happening now with ID (not to be confused with creationism).

I really do not understand how ID can be separate from creationism. If the designer is not God then surely we need to find this entity and put it on trial for the mass murders caused by the various historic plagues they have deliberately engineered. eg spanish flu which caused more deaths than WWI in 1919. Whoever this designer is they must be stopped, they are clearly evil. Think of the misery inflicted on all of us: impacted wisdom teeth, acne, period pain, bad back, headaches, short sight, haemorrhoids ... the list is endless.

This is one of the reasons I don't put too much stock in (not to be confused with rejecting) certain "mainstream" scientific theories. In practice, science is not the pure facts & reason based discipline that it should theoretically be, it's full of politics, psychological factors, frauds, hoaxes etc.

At the cutting edge of science you do get the politics, frauds and funding issues. But are you seriously telling me that Newton's laws of motion are a conspiracy?
I love the mega-arrogance implied in your statement. Just because mainstream science has been subjected to scrutiny by millions of highly intelligent people over hundreds of years is no reason to accept it. I'm sure holistic medicine can cure a fractured spine if they can just find the right crystal pyramid...although it is difficult to concentrate while the patient keeps screaming with agony.
Ragnar
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7/15/2013 11:40:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dogma, cognitive bias, faith... I think I'll use "dogmatic" when I spot the atheist equivalent of a bible thumper.

Thanks for the help guys.
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1Devilsadvocate
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7/15/2013 3:02:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 10:03:59 AM, chui wrote:
At 7/15/2013 6:35:12 AM, 1Devilsadvocate wrote:


Desire, denial, Cognitive bias, not wanting to shake the world of science too much, etc.

While human frailties do sometimes prevent scientific progress in the short term, in the long term science progresses in a rational fashion. How do I know this? Because science works, for example the computer in front of you is working.(If its not working you wont be able to read this so Ha!)

Non - sequitur.

The big bang is not the only time this has happened in science (dare I say it may be happening now with ID (not to be confused with creationism).

I really do not understand how ID can be separate from creationism.

That's probably because you don't know what ID is.
What's the difference? oh, only about 13 billion years.

If the designer is not God then surely we need to find this entity and put it on trial for the mass murders caused by the various historic plagues they have deliberately engineered. eg spanish flu which caused more deaths than WWI in 1919. Whoever this designer is they must be stopped, they are clearly evil. Think of the misery inflicted on all of us: impacted wisdom teeth, acne, period pain, bad back, headaches, short sight, haemorrhoids ... the list is endless.

Congratulations, you have just been awarded the Red Herring (a form of non - sequitur) of the cent. award.

This is one of the reasons I don't put too much stock in ( not to be confused with rejecting ) certain "mainstream" scientific theories. In practice, science is not the pure facts & reason based discipline that it should theoretically be, it's full of politics, psychological factors, frauds, hoaxes etc.

At the cutting edge of science you do get the politics, frauds and funding issues. But are you seriously telling me that Newton's laws of motion are a conspiracy?
I love the mega-arrogance implied in your statement. Just because mainstream science has been subjected to scrutiny by millions of highly intelligent people over hundreds of years is no reason to accept it. I'm sure holistic medicine can cure a fractured spine if they can just find the right crystal pyramid...although it is difficult to concentrate while the patient keeps screaming with agony.

Please reread the words in bold, & realize that your accusations have no relation to / basis in what I actually wrote.
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chui
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7/16/2013 6:47:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ok so most of my response was an attempt at humour, but what do you expect if you call yourself Devils-advocate.

I am intrigued by your response about ID. 13 billion years, the approx age of the universe? How is this relevant to ID?
1Devilsadvocate
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7/16/2013 9:28:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2013 6:47:47 AM, chui wrote:
Ok so most of my response was an attempt at humour, but what do you expect if you call yourself Devils-advocate.

I am intrigued by your response about ID. 13 billion years, the approx age of the universe? How is this relevant to ID?

It's one of the main differences between creationism & ID.
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...