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Express your Feelings on the Confederate flag

bettabreeder
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3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.
Slavery exists. It is black in the South, and white in the North. - Andrew Johnson
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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3/6/2014 4:18:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM, bettabreeder wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.

Today the ole Stars and Bars (the Confederate Flag) is merely the banner of angry white Southern men; a symbol of the resentment of bigoted and benighted folks, their resentment against the enlightenment that's been imposed upon them in the form of the abolition of slavery, the abolition of segregation, laws against discrimination, laws against sexual harassment, a more tolerant culture that they dismiss as "poltically correct", etc. Yes, it's an ugly symbol not merely imbued with the blood of Confederate Civil War heroes, but also tainted with the blood and tears of the victims of the evil institution, of Jim Crow, of the Klan, of lynch mobs, gay bashers, and hatemongers galore. In short, it's the freak flag of rightists, racists, sexists, heterosexists, and others with an atavistic mentality, a pretty darn dreadful symbol, and it's a pretty disgraceful thing that it's still commonly displayed in the South. One might very aptly call it Old Inglory, and it by all rights should be merely a relic of the South's dark history, but alas there are still many in the 21st-century who keep its vile spirit alive.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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3/6/2014 8:55:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Express your Feelings on the Confederate flag." A part of American history that thousands died to defend. They lost. America remained United begrudgingly for many years after. Then people became used to the idea of the United States again. Then decades later history was rewritten and the confederate flag was labeled exclusively as a symbol of slavery and racism. Now the United States has become split again and many states want to secede again for many of the very same reasons the civil war was fought for in the first place. Not all of the reason, many. The confederate flag should make people think why the civil war was fought on all fronts not just the rewritten version about ending slavery that is taught to every kid in public school. There were many more reasons than that and those are the reasons one should think of. Slavery is over. Move on.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
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3/6/2014 11:24:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM, bettabreeder wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.

We should not ascribe everything idiots do to the flag itself. After all do you dislike the North Korean flag or the idiot running the country? It is sterotypical to assume anyone who likes the Confederate flag is some redneck with a beat up pick-up who is a bigotted, intellectually dim-witted, misogynistic, racist. These exist, to a degree, but this is not what the flag stands for and this was never who it was meant to represent.
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Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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3/6/2014 11:39:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM, bettabreeder wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.

The Confederate flag for me stands for nothing more than the advocacy of slavery and the Union's fight to free the slaves. Every time I see that flag I think of an age where innocent people were treated like animals when they did nothing at all to deserve such treatment.
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charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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3/7/2014 3:19:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 8:55:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
... Slavery is over. Move on.

Spoken like a very deep-thinking and compassionate white man (or non-African-American).
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/7/2014 4:15:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 3:19:59 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:55:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
... Slavery is over. Move on.

Spoken like a very deep-thinking and compassionate white man (or non-African-American).

Your sarcasm indicates you disagree with what Sadolite said. You seem dismissive of his opinion based mostly on the presumption he is white, or that is what I gathered from that sentence.

Are you saying descendants of slaves should not move on, as Sadolite suggests?

What's wrong with not allowing the misdeeds that happened to your ancestors hold you back?

What about the descendants of white slaves?

Should they move on?

I have personally suffered some tragedies, as I'm sure most people have. Isn't the best advice to learn from it and then get over it?

If that's the best advice for dealing with a personal tragedy, how much better is it then dealing with one that happened to a distant relative you never met?

I'm not trying to attack you here. I just want to better understand your views on this. As a person who has been the victim of real racism, I just can't understand how the advice "get over it" is bad. I'd prefer the advice "learn from it, and get over it", but the former advice doesn't seem to be so bad.
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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3/7/2014 4:32:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 3:19:59 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:55:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
... Slavery is over. Move on.

Spoken like a very deep-thinking and compassionate white man (or non-African-American).

Lets do some math shall we. The year is 1865. Slavery is abolished (Ironically by white men) The year today 2014. 2014-1865=149 yrs A generation is 25 years. That means 6 generations have passed since the end of slavery. How many more generations of white men will have to be blamed for slavery before it is history and the white man can stop being self loathing and responsible for all that ill's the black man?

Slavery statistics by country and their extended territories: Who enslaved more people over the last 400 years?

British North America 500,00

Spanish America 1,600,000

Danish West Indies 175,000

French West Indies 2,500,000

Brazil 4,000,000

Europe 28,000

British West Indies 2,000,000

Dutch West Indies 500,000

And if you are interested a history of slavery https://www.britannica.com...

Your playing the self loathing white male guilt card is so utterly pathetic. I had nothing to do with slavery you jack AZZ. And I have nothing to feel guilty about. I will not bow my head in shame over the acts of people 6 generations before my time. Nor will I allow today's generation to use it as an excuse. For if we do then society has no hope anywhere on this planet. For everyone has a slave trade history, that is the way it was. It isn't any more, except in a few isolated third world lawless sht holes. Am I as a white man of this generation responsible for that to?
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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3/8/2014 2:07:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 4:15:24 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/7/2014 3:19:59 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:55:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
... Slavery is over. Move on.

Spoken like a very deep-thinking and compassionate white man (or non-African-American).

Your sarcasm indicates you disagree with what Sadolite said. You seem dismissive of his opinion based mostly on the presumption he is white, or that is what I gathered from that sentence.

Are you saying descendants of slaves should not move on, as Sadolite suggests?

Don't play obtuse here, friend. When someone tells African-Americans to get over the fact that their ancestors were victims of one of the most ineffably horrendous, horrific crimes against humanity in history s/he is not merely offering constructive advice; rather, s/he is denying the present and ongoing impact of that crime and history of dehumanization on the "the souls of black folk", and on the socioeconomic situation that African Americans continue to find themselves in in our society. That is, such a suggestion is an insensitive statement of the unsympathetic and ignorant view that African Americans are merely using slavery and racism as an excuse for their lack of greater success in our society. In fact, social inequality disproportionately and structurally targeted at people of color, i.e. racism, is still very much an inbuilt feature of our socioeconomic system; minorities who are conscious of this reality are merely conscious, not guilty of clinging to an excuse; and whites why deny this reality are merely in denial, are guilty of defensiveness, lack of empathy, and the need to deprive authentic victims of a recognition of their victimhood so as to feel superior to them. Well, this is essentially where friend sadolite' "suggestion" was really coming from, and this is why it deserved to be dismissed with sarcasm.

What's wrong with not allowing the misdeeds that happened to your ancestors hold you back?

Not recognizing or cultivating a critical awareness of how your socioeconomic place in society continues to be impacted by history is a rather dangerous bit of unconsciousness and denial. People liberate themselves from history by facing it and by making their society face it, not by the strategy of embracing a Pollyannaish denial.

What about the descendants of white slaves?

Well, now you're definitely being willfully moronic (no, this is not an attempt to insult your intelligence, as it implies that you possess intelligence but are choosing to make stupid statements that belie that intelligence).

Should they move on?

I refer you to my above comments about telling historically and ongoingly victimized groups to simply "move on", "get over it", or "stop making excuses".

I have personally suffered some tragedies, as I'm sure most people have. Isn't the best advice to learn from it and then get over it?

Critical awareness, conscientization, not denial and self-blame for the effects of past and present injustices, is the best policy.

If that's the best advice for dealing with a personal tragedy, how much better is it then dealing with one that happened to a distant relative you never met?

There you go, making light of the very real and ongoingly oppressive impact of the legacy of a great evil.


I'm not trying to attack you here. I just want to better understand your views on this. As a person who has been the victim of real racism, I just can't understand how the advice "get over it" is bad. I'd prefer the advice "learn from it, and get over it", but the former advice doesn't seem to be so bad.

I refer you to my above comments.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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3/8/2014 3:00:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 4:32:40 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/7/2014 3:19:59 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:55:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
... Slavery is over. Move on.

Spoken like a very deep-thinking and compassionate white man (or non-African-American).

Lets do some math shall we. The year is 1865. Slavery is abolished (Ironically by white men)

Lol! He attempts to mitigate the evil of slavery by focusing credit on morally high and mighty whitey for changing his evil ways after centuries of the remorseless commodification and dehumanization of his African brother (and sister), and only when the Industrial Revolution had made the agrarian slave-based economy of the South obsolete.

The year today 2014. 2014-1865=149 yrs A generation is 25 years. That means 6 generations have passed since the end of slavery. How many more generations of white men will have to be blamed for slavery before it is history and the white man can stop being self loathing and responsible for all that ill's the black man?

Hmm, I never actually blamed contemporary white folks for slavery, I merely took issue with being dismissive of the ongoing impact of history on the lives and well-being of African Americans. That you read into my comments an allegation never made and proceed to go on about your lack of responsibility for the sins of the past, however, seems to indicate a bit of defensiveness which you deal with by blaming African Americans for their own authentic victimhood and telling them to "move on".

Slavery statistics by country and their extended territories: Who enslaved more people over the last 400 years?

British North America 500,00

Spanish America 1,600,000

Danish West Indies 175,000

French West Indies 2,500,000

Brazil 4,000,000

Europe 28,000

British West Indies 2,000,000

Dutch West Indies 500,000

And if you are interested a history of slavery https://www.britannica.com...

I'm not interested with playing with statistics.

Your playing the self loathing white male guilt card is so utterly pathetic.

Rather, there's nothing to respect about your defensiveness, or your lack of sympathy for people who are still unjustly condemned to a lesser status in our society by history and by a racial identity that's very much a legacy of the crime perpetrated against their ancestors.

I had nothing to do with slavery you jack AZZ.

I never said that you did, dumb AZZ, my comment applied to your insensitive and dismissive advice to African Americans, it had nothing to do with attributing responsibility for slavery to you. Again, I might observe that you're expressing quite a bit of defensiveness.

And I have nothing to feel guilty about.

Mm-hmm, the gentleman doth express too much defensiveness, methinks.

I will not bow my head in shame over the acts of people 6 generations before my time.

Again, never asked you to do anything of the kind, I merely suggested that your thinking wasn't terribly profound or compassionate.

Nor will I allow today's generation to use it as an excuse.

Ah, and now you quite explicitly out yourself as someone suffering from the fundamental attribution error (as shrinks call it), someone who is intent on blaming authentic victims and denying them legitimate "excuses" so that he can persist in being unsympathetic, in being judgmental, and in feeling superior to those whom he views as losers.

For if we do then society has no hope anywhere on this planet. For everyone has a slave trade history, that is the way it was. It isn't any more, except in a few isolated third world lawless sht holes. Am I as a white man of this generation responsible for that to?

The horrendous conditions of the Third World are in fact largely due to the hegemony of the First World's predominantly Caucasoid capitalist elites; and to white First World populations who make themselves complicit by purchasing the tennis shoes made by sweatshop laborers of color, by exploiting and consuming the resources of Third World countries, by looking the other way as neoliberalism and neocolonialism is cruelly imposed on developing societies, etc. No, I never did actually assign any responsibility to modern white folks for the sins of their slave-owning ancestors, but whites who choose to be in denial about the relevance of those sins are guilty of permitting the transmission of their ill effects, and whites (and other First World citizens) who deny the First World's considerable share of responsibility for the evils of the Third World are absolutely culpably complicit. And, well, if this shoe fits your little white tootsies, don't get grouchy at the messenger.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
jnedwards11
Posts: 351
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3/8/2014 8:36:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 4:18:46 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM, bettabreeder wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.

Today the ole Stars and Bars (the Confederate Flag) is merely the banner of angry white Southern men; a symbol of the resentment of bigoted and benighted folks, their resentment against the enlightenment that's been imposed upon them in the form of the abolition of slavery, the abolition of segregation, laws against discrimination, laws against sexual harassment, a more tolerant culture that they dismiss as "poltically correct", etc. Yes, it's an ugly symbol not merely imbued with the blood of Confederate Civil War heroes, but also tainted with the blood and tears of the victims of the evil institution, of Jim Crow, of the Klan, of lynch mobs, gay bashers, and hatemongers galore. In short, it's the freak flag of rightists, racists, sexists, heterosexists, and others with an atavistic mentality, a pretty darn dreadful symbol, and it's a pretty disgraceful thing that it's still commonly displayed in the South. One might very aptly call it Old Inglory, and it by all rights should be merely a relic of the South's dark history, but alas there are still many in the 21st-century who keep its vile spirit alive.

Lol, if only we could all be as tolerant and enlightened as you sir.

I fly the Confederate flag proudly as a banner of honor to the confederate dead in my family. Could you please indicate what proof you have of the anger, ignorance, bigotry and preference for slavery and segregation you seem to be so sure I harbor? Can you show me how I am a rightist, racists, or sexist?

Also could please demonstrate to me how I associate with the klan, lynch mobs, gay bashers or hate mongers?

Since you outright accused me of all these things based on my reverence of this flag. I would love to hear your evidence! Or, to make things much shorter and easier for both of us, you can admit that you were making EXTREMELY broad generalizations and accusations that are completely untenable in the face of inquiry. It's ok to think you're right, it not ok to judge people you don't know!
jnedwards11
Posts: 351
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3/8/2014 8:42:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 11:39:56 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM, bettabreeder wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.

The Confederate flag for me stands for nothing more than the advocacy of slavery and the Union's fight to free the slaves. Every time I see that flag I think of an age where innocent people were treated like animals when they did nothing at all to deserve such treatment.

Do you know the union held slaves in bondage throughout the entire civil war? Why does the American flag not remind you of an age where innocent people were treated like animals?
jnedwards11
Posts: 351
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3/8/2014 8:42:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 11:39:56 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM, bettabreeder wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.

The Confederate flag for me stands for nothing more than the advocacy of slavery and the Union's fight to free the slaves. Every time I see that flag I think of an age where innocent people were treated like animals when they did nothing at all to deserve such treatment.

Do you know the union held slaves in bondage throughout the entire civil war? Why does the American flag not remind you of an age where innocent people were treated like animals?
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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3/8/2014 9:06:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 3:00:47 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/7/2014 4:32:40 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/7/2014 3:19:59 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:55:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
... Slavery is over. Move on.

Spoken like a very deep-thinking and compassionate white man (or non-African-American).

Lets do some math shall we. The year is 1865. Slavery is abolished (Ironically by white men)

Lol! He attempts to mitigate the evil of slavery by focusing credit on morally high and mighty whitey for changing his evil ways after centuries of the remorseless commodification and dehumanization of his African brother (and sister), and only when the Industrial Revolution had made the agrarian slave-based economy of the South obsolete.



The year today 2014. 2014-1865=149 yrs A generation is 25 years. That means 6 generations have passed since the end of slavery. How many more generations of white men will have to be blamed for slavery before it is history and the white man can stop being self loathing and responsible for all that ill's the black man?

Hmm, I never actually blamed contemporary white folks for slavery, I merely took issue with being dismissive of the ongoing impact of history on the lives and well-being of African Americans. That you read into my comments an allegation never made and proceed to go on about your lack of responsibility for the sins of the past, however, seems to indicate a bit of defensiveness which you deal with by blaming African Americans for their own authentic victimhood and telling them to "move on".

Slavery statistics by country and their extended territories: Who enslaved more people over the last 400 years?

British North America 500,00

Spanish America 1,600,000

Danish West Indies 175,000

French West Indies 2,500,000

Brazil 4,000,000

Europe 28,000

British West Indies 2,000,000

Dutch West Indies 500,000

And if you are interested a history of slavery https://www.britannica.com...

I'm not interested with playing with statistics.

Your playing the self loathing white male guilt card is so utterly pathetic.

Rather, there's nothing to respect about your defensiveness, or your lack of sympathy for people who are still unjustly condemned to a lesser status in our society by history and by a racial identity that's very much a legacy of the crime perpetrated against their ancestors.


I had nothing to do with slavery you jack AZZ.

I never said that you did, dumb AZZ, my comment applied to your insensitive and dismissive advice to African Americans, it had nothing to do with attributing responsibility for slavery to you. Again, I might observe that you're expressing quite a bit of defensiveness.



And I have nothing to feel guilty about.

Mm-hmm, the gentleman doth express too much defensiveness, methinks.


I will not bow my head in shame over the acts of people 6 generations before my time.

Again, never asked you to do anything of the kind, I merely suggested that your thinking wasn't terribly profound or compassionate.



Nor will I allow today's generation to use it as an excuse.

Ah, and now you quite explicitly out yourself as someone suffering from the fundamental attribution error (as shrinks call it), someone who is intent on blaming authentic victims and denying them legitimate "excuses" so that he can persist in being unsympathetic, in being judgmental, and in feeling superior to those whom he views as losers.



For if we do then society has no hope anywhere on this planet. For everyone has a slave trade history, that is the way it was. It isn't any more, except in a few isolated third world lawless sht holes. Am I as a white man of this generation responsible for that to?

The horrendous conditions of the Third World are in fact largely due to the hegemony of the First World's predominantly Caucasoid capitalist elites; and to white First World populations who make themselves complicit by purchasing the tennis shoes made by sweatshop laborers of color, by exploiting and consuming the resources of Third World countries, by looking the other way as neoliberalism and neocolonialism is cruelly imposed on developing societies, etc. No, I never did actually assign any responsibility to modern white folks for the sins of their slave-owning ancestors, but whites who choose to be in denial about the relevance of those sins are guilty of permitting the transmission of their ill effects, and whites (and other First World citizens) who deny the First World's considerable share of responsibility for the evils of the Third World are absolutely culpably complicit. And, well, if this shoe fits your little white tootsies, don't get grouchy at the messenger.

OK,then Charles, the black man will never over come. Until I as a white man do something, what ever that is. You and that neumonia guy,Two peas in a pod.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
RebelRebelDixieDixie01
Posts: 31
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3/8/2014 9:16:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM, bettabreeder wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.

I believe it stands for southern heritage, and it's not racist because black people fly it
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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3/8/2014 4:29:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 8:36:00 AM, jnedwards11 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:18:46 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM, bettabreeder wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.

Today the ole Stars and Bars (the Confederate Flag) is merely the banner of angry white Southern men; a symbol of the resentment of bigoted and benighted folks, their resentment against the enlightenment that's been imposed upon them in the form of the abolition of slavery, the abolition of segregation, laws against discrimination, laws against sexual harassment, a more tolerant culture that they dismiss as "poltically correct", etc. Yes, it's an ugly symbol not merely imbued with the blood of Confederate Civil War heroes, but also tainted with the blood and tears of the victims of the evil institution, of Jim Crow, of the Klan, of lynch mobs, gay bashers, and hatemongers galore. In short, it's the freak flag of rightists, racists, sexists, heterosexists, and others with an atavistic mentality, a pretty darn dreadful symbol, and it's a pretty disgraceful thing that it's still commonly displayed in the South. One might very aptly call it Old Inglory, and it by all rights should be merely a relic of the South's dark history, but alas there are still many in the 21st-century who keep its vile spirit alive.

Lol, if only we could all be as tolerant and enlightened as you sir.

I fly the Confederate flag proudly as a banner of honor to the confederate dead in my family. Could you please indicate what proof you have of the anger, ignorance, bigotry and preference for slavery and segregation you seem to be so sure I harbor? Can you show me how I am a rightist, racists, or sexist?

Also could please demonstrate to me how I associate with the klan, lynch mobs, gay bashers or hate mongers?

Since you outright accused me of all these things based on my reverence of this flag. I would love to hear your evidence! Or, to make things much shorter and easier for both of us, you can admit that you were making EXTREMELY broad generalizations and accusations that are completely untenable in the face of inquiry. It's ok to think you're right, it not ok to judge people you don't know!

Hmm, can you please demonstrate to me that it's decent folks such as yourself, merely honoring Confederate ancestors who fell in battle, who are representative of those who fly the Stars and Bars, and not rednecks, rightists, and racists?
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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3/8/2014 4:33:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Some relevant thoughts for the day. Yes, our society's history of slavery certainly packs a lot of power as evidenced by its power to make white folks extremely uptight, and amusingly nasal in their denial of any personal responsibility for the sins of their forefathers. And yet they staunchly insist that history has no power whatsoever over their African American countrymen! Yeah, sure, history has no real relevance for life whatsoever, it's had nothing to do with forming the identity and determining the socioeconomic situation of modern-day black folks. Their plight is all in their nappy heads. They just need to realize what a beautifully color-blind and meritocratic system American capitalism is and stop clinging to excuses. Sure, and Apollo astronauts discovered that the moon actually is made of cheeze; and it paradoxically turns out that up is indeed down; and of course white is invariably right, therefore when white amateur sociologists dismissively reject the possibility that African Americans are suffering the ill effects of their history, preferring instead to assign blame to their alleged "victim mentality", no right-thinking person should disagree. Yeah, what next, deniers that history has any power to affect the lives of African Americans, are you going to begin seeing legitimacy in the point of view of Holocaust deniers, or in the Flat Earth Society's denial that the Apollo program actually succeeded in putting a man on the moon?!
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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3/8/2014 4:44:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 9:16:06 AM, RebelRebelDixieDixie01 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM, bettabreeder wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.


I believe it stands for southern heritage, and it's not racist because black people fly it

Oh, so the Confederate flag isn't merely a cultural icon of white trash with a bigoted mentality, black folks also fly it. Sure, and plenty of African Americans like to have a spectacular cross burning in their backyards too. Lol!
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
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3/8/2014 4:49:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 9:06:17 AM, sadolite wrote:

OK,then Charles, the black man will never over come. Until I as a white man do something, what ever that is. You and that neumonia guy,Two peas in a pod.

Reductio ad absurdum.

Thoughts from my above post that apply:

Yes, our society's history of slavery certainly packs a lot of power as evidenced by its power to make white folks extremely uptight, and amusingly nasal in their denial of any personal responsibility for the sins of their forefathers. And yet they staunchly insist that history has no power whatsoever over their African American countrymen! Yeah, sure, history has no real relevance for life whatsoever, it's had nothing to do with forming the identity and determining the socioeconomic situation of modern-day black folks. Their plight is all in their nappy heads. They just need to realize what a beautifully color-blind and meritocratic system American capitalism is and stop clinging to excuses. Sure, and Apollo astronauts discovered that the moon actually is made of cheeze; and it paradoxically turns out that up is indeed down; and of course white is invariably right, therefore when white amateur sociologists dismissively reject the possibility that African Americans are suffering the ill effects of their history, preferring instead to assign blame to their alleged "victim mentality", no right-thinking person should disagree. Yeah, what next, deniers that history has any power to affect the lives of African Americans, are you going to begin seeing legitimacy in the point of view of Holocaust deniers, or in the Flat Earth Society's denial that the Apollo program actually succeeded in putting a man on the moon?!
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
jnedwards11
Posts: 351
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3/8/2014 5:36:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 4:29:45 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/8/2014 8:36:00 AM, jnedwards11 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:18:46 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM, bettabreeder wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.

Today the ole Stars and Bars (the Confederate Flag) is merely the banner of angry white Southern men; a symbol of the resentment of bigoted and benighted folks, their resentment against the enlightenment that's been imposed upon them in the form of the abolition of slavery, the abolition of segregation, laws against discrimination, laws against sexual harassment, a more tolerant culture that they dismiss as "poltically correct", etc. Yes, it's an ugly symbol not merely imbued with the blood of Confederate Civil War heroes, but also tainted with the blood and tears of the victims of the evil institution, of Jim Crow, of the Klan, of lynch mobs, gay bashers, and hatemongers galore. In short, it's the freak flag of rightists, racists, sexists, heterosexists, and others with an atavistic mentality, a pretty darn dreadful symbol, and it's a pretty disgraceful thing that it's still commonly displayed in the South. One might very aptly call it Old Inglory, and it by all rights should be merely a relic of the South's dark history, but alas there are still many in the 21st-century who keep its vile spirit alive.

Lol, if only we could all be as tolerant and enlightened as you sir.

I fly the Confederate flag proudly as a banner of honor to the confederate dead in my family. Could you please indicate what proof you have of the anger, ignorance, bigotry and preference for slavery and segregation you seem to be so sure I harbor? Can you show me how I am a rightist, racists, or sexist?

Also could please demonstrate to me how I associate with the klan, lynch mobs, gay bashers or hate mongers?

Since you outright accused me of all these things based on my reverence of this flag. I would love to hear your evidence! Or, to make things much shorter and easier for both of us, you can admit that you were making EXTREMELY broad generalizations and accusations that are completely untenable in the face of inquiry. It's ok to think you're right, it not ok to judge people you don't know!

Hmm, can you please demonstrate to me that it's decent folks such as yourself, merely honoring Confederate ancestors who fell in battle, who are representative of those who fly the Stars and Bars, and not rednecks, rightists, and racists?

Sorry Charles, I didn't broadly generalize an entire group of people and thus I have no need to demonstrate anything to you about anyone but myself.

Are there racist idiots who fly the Confederate flag? You bet! They fly the American flag too! Aside from the offense I take from the general blasphemy of the issue, I could care less what a bunch of ingrates do with thier own free time and money. It is no more representative of my history, or of me, than the ignorant statements you've made are.

That being said, if it weren't so easy for you to lie, I'd ask how many confederate flag owners you've even ever personally known. My guess is zero, and even if I'm wrong, I highly doubt they were all the racists hate mongers you've painted them out to be!

I'll assume that your "decent" comment about me indicates you don't actually think I'm a racist rightist, klan card-holding bigot. I appreciate your concession and would only ask that you turn down the vitriol in future posts regarding peoples heritage.
charleslb
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3/8/2014 5:48:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 5:36:05 PM, jnedwards11 wrote:
At 3/8/2014 4:29:45 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/8/2014 8:36:00 AM, jnedwards11 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:18:46 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM, bettabreeder wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.

Today the ole Stars and Bars (the Confederate Flag) is merely the banner of angry white Southern men; a symbol of the resentment of bigoted and benighted folks, their resentment against the enlightenment that's been imposed upon them in the form of the abolition of slavery, the abolition of segregation, laws against discrimination, laws against sexual harassment, a more tolerant culture that they dismiss as "poltically correct", etc. Yes, it's an ugly symbol not merely imbued with the blood of Confederate Civil War heroes, but also tainted with the blood and tears of the victims of the evil institution, of Jim Crow, of the Klan, of lynch mobs, gay bashers, and hatemongers galore. In short, it's the freak flag of rightists, racists, sexists, heterosexists, and others with an atavistic mentality, a pretty darn dreadful symbol, and it's a pretty disgraceful thing that it's still commonly displayed in the South. One might very aptly call it Old Inglory, and it by all rights should be merely a relic of the South's dark history, but alas there are still many in the 21st-century who keep its vile spirit alive.

Lol, if only we could all be as tolerant and enlightened as you sir.

I fly the Confederate flag proudly as a banner of honor to the confederate dead in my family. Could you please indicate what proof you have of the anger, ignorance, bigotry and preference for slavery and segregation you seem to be so sure I harbor? Can you show me how I am a rightist, racists, or sexist?

Also could please demonstrate to me how I associate with the klan, lynch mobs, gay bashers or hate mongers?

Since you outright accused me of all these things based on my reverence of this flag. I would love to hear your evidence! Or, to make things much shorter and easier for both of us, you can admit that you were making EXTREMELY broad generalizations and accusations that are completely untenable in the face of inquiry. It's ok to think you're right, it not ok to judge people you don't know!

Hmm, can you please demonstrate to me that it's decent folks such as yourself, merely honoring Confederate ancestors who fell in battle, who are representative of those who fly the Stars and Bars, and not rednecks, rightists, and racists?

Sorry Charles, I didn't broadly generalize an entire group of people and thus I have no need to demonstrate anything to you about anyone but myself.

Are there racist idiots who fly the Confederate flag? You bet! They fly the American flag too! Aside from the offense I take from the general blasphemy of the issue, I could care less what a bunch of ingrates do with thier own free time and money. It is no more representative of my history, or of me, than the ignorant statements you've made are.

That being said, if it weren't so easy for you to lie, I'd ask how many confederate flag owners you've even ever personally known. My guess is zero, and even if I'm wrong, I highly doubt they were all the racists hate mongers you've painted them out to be!

I'll assume that your "decent" comment about me indicates you don't actually think I'm a racist rightist, klan card-holding bigot. I appreciate your concession and would only ask that you turn down the vitriol in future posts regarding peoples heritage.

Hmm, you really think that associating the Confederate flag with racism and rightist politics is out of line?
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
jnedwards11
Posts: 351
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3/8/2014 8:56:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 5:48:47 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/8/2014 5:36:05 PM, jnedwards11 wrote:
At 3/8/2014 4:29:45 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/8/2014 8:36:00 AM, jnedwards11 wrote:
At 3/6/2014 4:18:46 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 12:26:42 PM, bettabreeder wrote:
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I made this for we can all argue are feelings on the Confederate on this form not my polls.

I Believe it stands for the Army of TN and stands for all the men who wanted to keep America, American. It expresses to me all the braves lives that were lost by the Northern forces.

Today the ole Stars and Bars (the Confederate Flag) is merely the banner of angry white Southern men; a symbol of the resentment of bigoted and benighted folks, their resentment against the enlightenment that's been imposed upon them in the form of the abolition of slavery, the abolition of segregation, laws against discrimination, laws against sexual harassment, a more tolerant culture that they dismiss as "poltically correct", etc. Yes, it's an ugly symbol not merely imbued with the blood of Confederate Civil War heroes, but also tainted with the blood and tears of the victims of the evil institution, of Jim Crow, of the Klan, of lynch mobs, gay bashers, and hatemongers galore. In short, it's the freak flag of rightists, racists, sexists, heterosexists, and others with an atavistic mentality, a pretty darn dreadful symbol, and it's a pretty disgraceful thing that it's still commonly displayed in the South. One might very aptly call it Old Inglory, and it by all rights should be merely a relic of the South's dark history, but alas there are still many in the 21st-century who keep its vile spirit alive.

Lol, if only we could all be as tolerant and enlightened as you sir.

I fly the Confederate flag proudly as a banner of honor to the confederate dead in my family. Could you please indicate what proof you have of the anger, ignorance, bigotry and preference for slavery and segregation you seem to be so sure I harbor? Can you show me how I am a rightist, racists, or sexist?

Also could please demonstrate to me how I associate with the klan, lynch mobs, gay bashers or hate mongers?

Since you outright accused me of all these things based on my reverence of this flag. I would love to hear your evidence! Or, to make things much shorter and easier for both of us, you can admit that you were making EXTREMELY broad generalizations and accusations that are completely untenable in the face of inquiry. It's ok to think you're right, it not ok to judge people you don't know!

Hmm, can you please demonstrate to me that it's decent folks such as yourself, merely honoring Confederate ancestors who fell in battle, who are representative of those who fly the Stars and Bars, and not rednecks, rightists, and racists?

Sorry Charles, I didn't broadly generalize an entire group of people and thus I have no need to demonstrate anything to you about anyone but myself.

Are there racist idiots who fly the Confederate flag? You bet! They fly the American flag too! Aside from the offense I take from the general blasphemy of the issue, I could care less what a bunch of ingrates do with thier own free time and money. It is no more representative of my history, or of me, than the ignorant statements you've made are.

That being said, if it weren't so easy for you to lie, I'd ask how many confederate flag owners you've even ever personally known. My guess is zero, and even if I'm wrong, I highly doubt they were all the racists hate mongers you've painted them out to be!

I'll assume that your "decent" comment about me indicates you don't actually think I'm a racist rightist, klan card-holding bigot. I appreciate your concession and would only ask that you turn down the vitriol in future posts regarding peoples heritage.

Hmm, you really think that associating the Confederate flag with racism and rightist politics is out of line?

Perhaps I wasn't clear on my grievance. I could care less if you have the opinion that the confederate flag is representative of racism. What I do take issue with, however, is the derogation of an entire group of people without even so much as a shred of legitimate evidence.

You are being so overbearingly judgmental of people you've never met that it is honestly difficult for me to understand how you miss the utter hypocrisy in your statements!

That being said, all I ask is that you respect the fact the other people are allowed have opinions that run contrary to your own without necessarily being ignorant hate mongers. I have family that gave their lives to a very noble cause fighting under this banner. If you disagree with me, so be it, but don't try to marginalize me on that standing alone. If you feel like you have the facts needed to change/disprove my views, then believe me when I tell you, I welcome the discussion......
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/8/2014 9:00:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 4:32:40 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/7/2014 3:19:59 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:55:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
... Slavery is over. Move on.

Spoken like a very deep-thinking and compassionate white man (or non-African-American).

Lets do some math shall we. The year is 1865. Slavery is abolished (Ironically by white men) The year today 2014. 2014-1865=149 yrs A generation is 25 years. That means 6 generations have passed since the end of slavery. How many more generations of white men will have to be blamed for slavery before it is history and the white man can stop being self loathing and responsible for all that ill's the black man?

Slavery statistics by country and their extended territories: Who enslaved more people over the last 400 years?

British North America 500,00

Spanish America 1,600,000

Danish West Indies 175,000

French West Indies 2,500,000

Brazil 4,000,000

Europe 28,000

British West Indies 2,000,000

Dutch West Indies 500,000

And if you are interested a history of slavery https://www.britannica.com...

Your playing the self loathing white male guilt card is so utterly pathetic. I had nothing to do with slavery you jack AZZ. And I have nothing to feel guilty about. I will not bow my head in shame over the acts of people 6 generations before my time. Nor will I allow today's generation to use it as an excuse. For if we do then society has no hope anywhere on this planet. For everyone has a slave trade history, that is the way it was. It isn't any more, except in a few isolated third world lawless sht holes. Am I as a white man of this generation responsible for that to?

1. Slavery rose up to a couple million after the invention of the cotton gin.

2. Brazil was the first to ban slavery.

3. Britain did it long before us.
Leader of the DDO Revolution Party
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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3/8/2014 9:34:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 9:00:37 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 4:32:40 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/7/2014 3:19:59 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:55:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
... Slavery is over. Move on.

Spoken like a very deep-thinking and compassionate white man (or non-African-American).

Lets do some math shall we. The year is 1865. Slavery is abolished (Ironically by white men) The year today 2014. 2014-1865=149 yrs A generation is 25 years. That means 6 generations have passed since the end of slavery. How many more generations of white men will have to be blamed for slavery before it is history and the white man can stop being self loathing and responsible for all that ill's the black man?

Slavery statistics by country and their extended territories: Who enslaved more people over the last 400 years?

British North America 500,00

Spanish America 1,600,000

Danish West Indies 175,000

French West Indies 2,500,000

Brazil 4,000,000

Europe 28,000

British West Indies 2,000,000

Dutch West Indies 500,000

And if you are interested a history of slavery https://www.britannica.com...

Your playing the self loathing white male guilt card is so utterly pathetic. I had nothing to do with slavery you jack AZZ. And I have nothing to feel guilty about. I will not bow my head in shame over the acts of people 6 generations before my time. Nor will I allow today's generation to use it as an excuse. For if we do then society has no hope anywhere on this planet. For everyone has a slave trade history, that is the way it was. It isn't any more, except in a few isolated third world lawless sht holes. Am I as a white man of this generation responsible for that to?

1. Slavery rose up to a couple million after the invention of the cotton gin.

2. Brazil was the first to ban slavery.

3. Britain did it long before us.

So what is your point. What am I supposed to do. Am I supposed to forfeit my wealth to a black man. Slavery was practiced all around the world during these times. Why do I as a white man 6 generations later have to bear the cross and atone for something I had nothing to do with. I am so fcking sick and tired of this evil white man crap. Slavery is long over why is it still used as a whipping boy. Once and for all what the fuk am I supposed to do. What will satisfy the black man? Not what govt would do but me as an individual. What am I as individual white man supposed to do to please the black man so I don't have to be the evil white honky and just be a individual trying to eek out a living? Be very specific.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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3/8/2014 9:40:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 9:34:50 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/8/2014 9:00:37 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 4:32:40 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 3/7/2014 3:19:59 AM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/6/2014 8:55:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
... Slavery is over. Move on.

Spoken like a very deep-thinking and compassionate white man (or non-African-American).

Lets do some math shall we. The year is 1865. Slavery is abolished (Ironically by white men) The year today 2014. 2014-1865=149 yrs A generation is 25 years. That means 6 generations have passed since the end of slavery. How many more generations of white men will have to be blamed for slavery before it is history and the white man can stop being self loathing and responsible for all that ill's the black man?

Slavery statistics by country and their extended territories: Who enslaved more people over the last 400 years?

British North America 500,00

Spanish America 1,600,000

Danish West Indies 175,000

French West Indies 2,500,000

Brazil 4,000,000

Europe 28,000

British West Indies 2,000,000

Dutch West Indies 500,000

And if you are interested a history of slavery https://www.britannica.com...

Your playing the self loathing white male guilt card is so utterly pathetic. I had nothing to do with slavery you jack AZZ. And I have nothing to feel guilty about. I will not bow my head in shame over the acts of people 6 generations before my time. Nor will I allow today's generation to use it as an excuse. For if we do then society has no hope anywhere on this planet. For everyone has a slave trade history, that is the way it was. It isn't any more, except in a few isolated third world lawless sht holes. Am I as a white man of this generation responsible for that to?

1. Slavery rose up to a couple million after the invention of the cotton gin.

2. Brazil was the first to ban slavery.

3. Britain did it long before us.

So what is your point. What am I supposed to do. Am I supposed to forfeit my wealth to a black man. Slavery was practiced all around the world during these times. Why do I as a white man 6 generations later have to bear the cross and atone for something I had nothing to do with. I am so fcking sick and tired of this evil white man crap. Slavery is long over why is it still used as a whipping boy. Once and for all what the fuk am I supposed to do. What will satisfy the black man? Not what govt would do but me as an individual. What am I as individual white man supposed to do to please the black man so I don't have to be the evil white honky and just be a individual trying to eek out a living? Be very specific.

Nothing more. Slavery is long over due, so people should forget about it. It was practically banished throughout Europe at the time, but still. There still is some racism going around, but I feel blacks and whites need to drop the race war.
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/8/2014 9:46:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Confederate flag stands for many things... among them the defense of slavery, treason against the union of the United States, nullification, and racism. I'd grant you that it also stands for the defense of state sovereignty, but to embrace the flag for that reason alone is to ignore everything else it stands for and to display an unacceptable level of indifference toward a history of inhumanity.

If you're a libertarian who simply wants to convey support for the ethical principle of secession, then please don't be an idiot. Just find a different symbol. You cannot embrace the confederate flag without also implying that you're supportive of or indifferent toward slavery.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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3/8/2014 9:51:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think its a reclaimed sign of southern pride and rebellious spirit. Any wrongs committed under it also happened under the American flag... In the end they're all just whatever you want them to be. I wouldn't be flying one in my yard or having a sticker on my car, but I don't judge or look down on those that do.
jnedwards11
Posts: 351
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3/8/2014 10:00:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 9:46:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
The Confederate flag stands for many things... among them the defense of slavery, treason against the union of the United States, nullification, and racism. I'd grant you that it also stands for the defense of state sovereignty, but to embrace the flag for that reason alone is to ignore everything else it stands for and to display an unacceptable level of indifference toward a history of inhumanity.

If you're a libertarian who simply wants to convey support for the ethical principle of secession, then please don't be an idiot. Just find a different symbol. You cannot embrace the confederate flag without also implying that you're supportive of or indifferent toward slavery.

Really!?!?!? I fly the confederate flag. Might I ask how or why that implies my support of or indifference to slavery? I would absolutely love to hear your evidence of this assertion! Please detail to me how I am somehow ignorant of my own overt racism.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/8/2014 10:24:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 10:00:29 PM, jnedwards11 wrote:
At 3/8/2014 9:46:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
The Confederate flag stands for many things... among them the defense of slavery, treason against the union of the United States, nullification, and racism. I'd grant you that it also stands for the defense of state sovereignty, but to embrace the flag for that reason alone is to ignore everything else it stands for and to display an unacceptable level of indifference toward a history of inhumanity.

If you're a libertarian who simply wants to convey support for the ethical principle of secession, then please don't be an idiot. Just find a different symbol. You cannot embrace the confederate flag without also implying that you're supportive of or indifferent toward slavery.

Really!?!?!? I fly the confederate flag. Might I ask how or why that implies my support of or indifference to slavery? I would absolutely love to hear your evidence of this assertion! Please detail to me how I am somehow ignorant of my own overt racism.

Well it's simple really. The confederate flag was the flag of the confederacy. The confederacy was established out of a regional apprehension over the abolition of slavery. Therefore the confederate flag is intimately associated with the preservation of slavery.

My argument isn't that everyone who embraces the flag supports slavery. My argument is that the flag's association with slavery is an historical and social truth... so to embrace the flag is to either ignore that association or support it.

If I'm still not making sense, perhaps this syllogism will help:
P1. The confederate flag is necessarily a symbol of slavery
P2. To embrace a symbol and know of its reference is to embrace its reference
P3. To embrace a symbol and not know of its reference is to be ignorant of its reference
C. Anyone who embraces the confederate flag embraces or ignores its reference to slavery.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault