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What do we know about the historical Jesus?

Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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3/7/2014 7:01:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I want to know, history buffs, what is known by historians about the life and the works of Jesus.

I know it's universally accepted that there was a man named Jesus preaching in Judea who was baptized by John the Baptist, and who was crucified by the order of Pontius Pilate, but what other facts can be taken as historical concerning Jesus?
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,036
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3/12/2014 11:17:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 7:01:13 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
I want to know, history buffs, what is known by historians about the life and the works of Jesus.

I know it's universally accepted that there was a man named Jesus preaching in Judea who was baptized by John the Baptist, and who was crucified by the order of Pontius Pilate, but what other facts can be taken as historical concerning Jesus?

Ever wonder what he did during the years left out of the Bible? Known as the Missing Years of Christ. Watch this whenever you have the time, it's well worth it.
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j50wells
Posts: 345
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8/10/2015 9:17:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There's not much. Outside the Bible there are no authentic historical records of Jesus outside of the Bible. While there are several Roman records of crucifying several men named Jesus at the time, there is no documented case for the Jesus of the Bible.

The whole Jesus thing is actually a weird thing. When one reads the Bible, and the stories within it, it is hard to believe that four men could have come up with such a good story. I'm not a Christian, but it is a good story. It has it all. It has the hero, the villain, war, fear, magic, death, resurrection....it has all those things within it that makes a story so good.
However, there is one story that I have found even more exciting and adventurous than the Gospels....Homer. Homer is written even better, and yet we still don't embrace it as real.
The Gospels have shown that they are not authentic. It has been shown that many of the stories were made up. Many of the stories actually came from previous myths. In some cases the authors of the gospels made mistakes and forgeries, and then tried to cover them up later. There are several good books about the mistakes in the Bible. They are quite comical.
Two stories where the authors showed their ignorance and errors the most was how it was that Jesus was moved around the whole region of the Middle East in order to bring him back to Bethlehem to fulfill a prophecy. Each gospel tells a different story as to how Jesus ended up in Bethlehem, and each story is different than the other. We find the same thing with Judas repentance after betraying Jesus. Each gospel gives a completely different account than the other gospels.
I guess what I'm saying is that most of what the gospels say didn't happen. Much of it was borrowed myths from other religions. Much of it was stories that the priests made up after the fall of Jerusalem in order to keep their power and give the Jews a hope for going on.
It is likely that there was a sage in Jerusalem near the time of the fall of Jerusalem. Perhaps he had learned magic from other sages and wizards. There were a lot of them around at that time in the Middle East. Maybe this guy learned their ways and came and preached a message and had a small following. There's no proof of it, but it might have happened like that.
shortman
Posts: 8
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8/13/2015 3:16:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 9:17:12 PM, j50wells wrote:
There's not much. Outside the Bible there are no authentic historical records of Jesus outside of the Bible. While there are several Roman records of crucifying several men named Jesus at the time, there is no documented case for the Jesus of the Bible.

The whole Jesus thing is actually a weird thing. When one reads the Bible, and the stories within it, it is hard to believe that four men could have come up with such a good story. I'm not a Christian, but it is a good story. It has it all. It has the hero, the villain, war, fear, magic, death, resurrection....it has all those things within it that makes a story so good.
However, there is one story that I have found even more exciting and adventurous than the Gospels....Homer. Homer is written even better, and yet we still don't embrace it as real.
The Gospels have shown that they are not authentic. It has been shown that many of the stories were made up. Many of the stories actually came from previous myths. In some cases the authors of the gospels made mistakes and forgeries, and then tried to cover them up later. There are several good books about the mistakes in the Bible. They are quite comical.
Two stories where the authors showed their ignorance and errors the most was how it was that Jesus was moved around the whole region of the Middle East in order to bring him back to Bethlehem to fulfill a prophecy. Each gospel tells a different story as to how Jesus ended up in Bethlehem, and each story is different than the other. We find the same thing with Judas repentance after betraying Jesus. Each gospel gives a completely different account than the other gospels.
I guess what I'm saying is that most of what the gospels say didn't happen. Much of it was borrowed myths from other religions. Much of it was stories that the priests made up after the fall of Jerusalem in order to keep their power and give the Jews a hope for going on.
It is likely that there was a sage in Jerusalem near the time of the fall of Jerusalem. Perhaps he had learned magic from other sages and wizards. There were a lot of them around at that time in the Middle East. Maybe this guy learned their ways and came and preached a message and had a small following. There's no proof of it, but it might have happened like that. : :

Christianity was started by religious Jews who abandoned Judaism before the destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish temple. God's saints were preaching the gospel of God at that time to God's chosen believers. Some of the knowledge that the saints were writing and speaking for God were stolen by the Jewish Christians who rejected the gospel of God.

Even though the practice of Judaism pretty much ended at that time with their holy temple in ruins after the destruction of Jerusalem, the remaining Christians kept practicing the Jewish traditions like water baptism. They abandoned their animal sacrifices after their temple was destroyed but they adopted a pagan idea of a human sacrifice instead. This is where the idea of Jesus dying for their sins became popular. With this Jesus crucifixion story, the pagan Christians flourished amongst the gentiles and by 325 A.D. the Roman Empire Constantine, announced that Christianity was the main religion of the Roman Empire.

Judaism still remains a religion today but only because of a few Jews who didn't accept the pagan idea of Jesus.
August_Burns_Red
Posts: 1,253
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8/15/2015 10:36:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 9:17:12 PM, j50wells wrote:
There's not much. Outside the Bible there are no authentic historical records of Jesus outside of the Bible. While there are several Roman records of crucifying several men named Jesus at the time, there is no documented case for the Jesus of the Bible.

The whole Jesus thing is actually a weird thing. When one reads the Bible, and the stories within it, it is hard to believe that four men could have come up with such a good story. I'm not a Christian, but it is a good story. It has it all. It has the hero, the villain, war, fear, magic, death, resurrection....it has all those things within it that makes a story so good.
However, there is one story that I have found even more exciting and adventurous than the Gospels....Homer. Homer is written even better, and yet we still don't embrace it as real.
The Gospels have shown that they are not authentic. It has been shown that many of the stories were made up. Many of the stories actually came from previous myths. In some cases the authors of the gospels made mistakes and forgeries, and then tried to cover them up later. There are several good books about the mistakes in the Bible. They are quite comical.
Two stories where the authors showed their ignorance and errors the most was how it was that Jesus was moved around the whole region of the Middle East in order to bring him back to Bethlehem to fulfill a prophecy. Each gospel tells a different story as to how Jesus ended up in Bethlehem, and each story is different than the other. We find the same thing with Judas repentance after betraying Jesus. Each gospel gives a completely different account than the other gospels.
I guess what I'm saying is that most of what the gospels say didn't happen. Much of it was borrowed myths from other religions. Much of it was stories that the priests made up after the fall of Jerusalem in order to keep their power and give the Jews a hope for going on.
It is likely that there was a sage in Jerusalem near the time of the fall of Jerusalem. Perhaps he had learned magic from other sages and wizards. There were a lot of them around at that time in the Middle East. Maybe this guy learned their ways and came and preached a message and had a small following. There's no proof of it, but it might have happened like that.

wrong. there ARE secular wrings about Jesus of Nazareth. Ive listed them before here on DDO, and invite you to simply Google. "Secular writings the prove Jesus lived" and you'll find them. you should refrain from making claims you cannot back-up and which are very very wrong, my friend. God Bless.
Tomorrow's forecast: God reigns and the Son shines!
fromantle
Posts: 274
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8/16/2015 1:15:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2014 7:01:13 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
I want to know, history buffs, what is known by historians about the life and the works of Jesus.

I know it's universally accepted that there was a man named Jesus preaching in Judea who was baptized by John the Baptist, and who was crucified by the order of Pontius Pilate, but what other facts can be taken as historical concerning Jesus?

Just suppose for a moment all the claims about Jesus were proved to be true beyond doubt, do you think for one minute it would transform the world. I think it would make little difference. Many historical figures are shrouded in mystery. Men and womens lives are not lived by historical proof they are lived by desire. We are not just mind creatures we have emotions and desires some beyond our control.
riveroaks
Posts: 265
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8/16/2015 5:49:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2014 7:01:13 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
I want to know, history buffs, what is known by historians about the life and the works of Jesus.

I know it's universally accepted that there was a man named Jesus preaching in Judea who was baptized by John the Baptist, and who was crucified by the order of Pontius Pilate, but what other facts can be taken as historical concerning Jesus?

You need to look up 2 authors of 2 books -- you can buy them at Barnes & Noble.

The first author is the historian Josephus Flavius. He was a contemporary of Emperor Vespasian.

The second author is Eusebius. He was a contemporary of Constantine The Great.

Both of these historians mentioned Jesus and were the first and second to do so, for which we still have copies of their writings.
riveroaks
Posts: 265
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8/16/2015 5:51:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 1:15:37 PM, fromantle wrote:
At 3/7/2014 7:01:13 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
I want to know, history buffs, what is known by historians about the life and the works of Jesus.

I know it's universally accepted that there was a man named Jesus preaching in Judea who was baptized by John the Baptist, and who was crucified by the order of Pontius Pilate, but what other facts can be taken as historical concerning Jesus?

Just suppose for a moment all the claims about Jesus were proved to be true beyond doubt, do you think for one minute it would transform the world. I think it would make little difference. Many historical figures are shrouded in mystery. Men and womens lives are not lived by historical proof they are lived by desire. We are not just mind creatures we have emotions and desires some beyond our control.

The O/P did not ask about that however. He asked about historical evidences.
riveroaks
Posts: 265
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8/16/2015 5:52:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/10/2015 9:17:12 PM, j50wells wrote:
There's not much. Outside the Bible there are no authentic historical records of Jesus outside of the Bible. While there are several Roman records of crucifying several men named Jesus at the time, there is no documented case for the Jesus of the Bible.

The whole Jesus thing is actually a weird thing. When one reads the Bible, and the stories within it, it is hard to believe that four men could have come up with such a good story. I'm not a Christian, but it is a good story. It has it all. It has the hero, the villain, war, fear, magic, death, resurrection....it has all those things within it that makes a story so good.
However, there is one story that I have found even more exciting and adventurous than the Gospels....Homer. Homer is written even better, and yet we still don't embrace it as real.
The Gospels have shown that they are not authentic. It has been shown that many of the stories were made up. Many of the stories actually came from previous myths. In some cases the authors of the gospels made mistakes and forgeries, and then tried to cover them up later. There are several good books about the mistakes in the Bible. They are quite comical.
Two stories where the authors showed their ignorance and errors the most was how it was that Jesus was moved around the whole region of the Middle East in order to bring him back to Bethlehem to fulfill a prophecy. Each gospel tells a different story as to how Jesus ended up in Bethlehem, and each story is different than the other. We find the same thing with Judas repentance after betraying Jesus. Each gospel gives a completely different account than the other gospels.
I guess what I'm saying is that most of what the gospels say didn't happen. Much of it was borrowed myths from other religions. Much of it was stories that the priests made up after the fall of Jerusalem in order to keep their power and give the Jews a hope for going on.
It is likely that there was a sage in Jerusalem near the time of the fall of Jerusalem. Perhaps he had learned magic from other sages and wizards. There were a lot of them around at that time in the Middle East. Maybe this guy learned their ways and came and preached a message and had a small following. There's no proof of it, but it might have happened like that.

Your entire narrative is nonsense. Do some more reading. Look up Josephus and Eusebius.
riveroaks
Posts: 265
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8/16/2015 5:56:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/13/2015 3:16:23 AM, shortman wrote:
At 8/10/2015 9:17:12 PM, j50wells wrote:
There's not much. Outside the Bible there are no authentic historical records of Jesus outside of the Bible. While there are several Roman records of crucifying several men named Jesus at the time, there is no documented case for the Jesus of the Bible.

The whole Jesus thing is actually a weird thing. When one reads the Bible, and the stories within it, it is hard to believe that four men could have come up with such a good story. I'm not a Christian, but it is a good story. It has it all. It has the hero, the villain, war, fear, magic, death, resurrection....it has all those things within it that makes a story so good.
However, there is one story that I have found even more exciting and adventurous than the Gospels....Homer. Homer is written even better, and yet we still don't embrace it as real.
The Gospels have shown that they are not authentic. It has been shown that many of the stories were made up. Many of the stories actually came from previous myths. In some cases the authors of the gospels made mistakes and forgeries, and then tried to cover them up later. There are several good books about the mistakes in the Bible. They are quite comical.
Two stories where the authors showed their ignorance and errors the most was how it was that Jesus was moved around the whole region of the Middle East in order to bring him back to Bethlehem to fulfill a prophecy. Each gospel tells a different story as to how Jesus ended up in Bethlehem, and each story is different than the other. We find the same thing with Judas repentance after betraying Jesus. Each gospel gives a completely different account than the other gospels.
I guess what I'm saying is that most of what the gospels say didn't happen. Much of it was borrowed myths from other religions. Much of it was stories that the priests made up after the fall of Jerusalem in order to keep their power and give the Jews a hope for going on.
It is likely that there was a sage in Jerusalem near the time of the fall of Jerusalem. Perhaps he had learned magic from other sages and wizards. There were a lot of them around at that time in the Middle East. Maybe this guy learned their ways and came and preached a message and had a small following. There's no proof of it, but it might have happened like that. : :

Christianity was started by religious Jews who abandoned Judaism before the destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish temple. God's saints were preaching the gospel of God at that time to God's chosen believers. Some of the knowledge that the saints were writing and speaking for God were stolen by the Jewish Christians who rejected the gospel of God.

Even though the practice of Judaism pretty much ended at that time with their holy temple in ruins after the destruction of Jerusalem, the remaining Christians kept practicing the Jewish traditions like water baptism. They abandoned their animal sacrifices after their temple was destroyed but they adopted a pagan idea of a human sacrifice instead. This is where the idea of Jesus dying for their sins became popular. With this Jesus crucifixion story, the pagan Christians flourished amongst the gentiles and by 325 A.D. the Roman Empire Constantine, announced that Christianity was the main religion of the Roman Empire.

Judaism still remains a religion today but only because of a few Jews who didn't accept the pagan idea of Jesus.

This is a pleasant fiction. I can see the morphology of pieces out of the works of Josephus and of Eusebius, but then you seem to add your own mythology on.

I would recommend going back to the basics -- Josephus and Eusebius -- and then deleting all the added on fluff.