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What Africa could have been.

Eitan_Zohar
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3/27/2014 1:02:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Alternate history map of a modern, never-colonized Africa. It's upside down to break the Western psychological perspective.

https://pbs.twimg.com...
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SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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3/28/2014 10:32:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Interesting. I wonder which script's would be dominant in this map.
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SuperRobotWars
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3/28/2014 10:49:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/28/2014 10:32:26 AM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
Interesting. I wonder which script's would be dominant in this map.

The use of Ajami would probably be the most prevalent in West Africa but, assuming slow cultural diffusion or deep nationalism, the Central and East African nationstates would probably keep the Kpelle and Mende Syllabaries and diversify the script for wider use due to all of the linguistic diversity of the regions. Do they talk about any regional Lingua Franca's?
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
imabench
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3/28/2014 12:43:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 1:02:47 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Alternate history map of a modern, never-colonized Africa. It's upside down to break the Western psychological perspective.

https://pbs.twimg.com...

any particular reason why the map is intentionally upside down?
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SeventhProfessor
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3/28/2014 4:28:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/28/2014 12:43:14 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/27/2014 1:02:47 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Alternate history map of a modern, never-colonized Africa. It's upside down to break the Western psychological perspective.

https://pbs.twimg.com...

any particular reason why the map is intentionally upside down?
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Jifpop09
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3/28/2014 4:38:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 1:02:47 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Alternate history map of a modern, never-colonized Africa. It's upside down to break the Western psychological perspective.

https://pbs.twimg.com...

Oh, that would make a great fate map. Now I'm sad _.P_
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Blade-of-Truth
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3/28/2014 4:41:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/28/2014 4:28:06 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
At 3/28/2014 12:43:14 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/27/2014 1:02:47 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Alternate history map of a modern, never-colonized Africa. It's upside down to break the Western psychological perspective.

https://pbs.twimg.com...

any particular reason why the map is intentionally upside down?

Mmm, I watched a west wing episode once that was trying to introduce that idea of western psychological perspective (in regards to maps) by showing that the sizes aren't accurate and that the positioning of higher up vs lower positions influence individuals based on the dualistic nature of things being bigger or higher up somehow relating to importance. I will post link for better description:
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Blade-of-Truth
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3/28/2014 4:47:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/28/2014 12:43:14 PM, imabench wrote:
At 3/27/2014 1:02:47 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Alternate history map of a modern, never-colonized Africa. It's upside down to break the Western psychological perspective.

https://pbs.twimg.com...

any particular reason why the map is intentionally upside down?
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Subutai
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3/28/2014 9:43:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 1:02:47 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Alternate history map of a modern, never-colonized Africa. It's upside down to break the Western psychological perspective.

https://pbs.twimg.com...

Very interesting. The problems of colonization are clear by showing an alternative history of Africa.
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Adam2
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3/29/2014 12:22:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Imagine if the Brits, Danes and Swedes never went to Africa. Africa wouldn't be in the Troubles (an allusion to the situation in Ireland) that they're in.
neutral
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3/30/2014 3:32:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think you need to take a broader geographic view of the situation.

Africa is not the only place to be colonized. Asia, think boxer rebellion and the death of 20 million Chinese, were absolutely brutalized by Western Colonial rule. And yet, Asia has by in large risen above that Colonial rulership, and is doing rather well comparatively. A lot of this comes down to something that still troubles Africa, good governance. Government in Asia set policies that encouraged education and economic growth and have reaped the rewards.

There are African Nations that are doing the same.

Africa, or a great deal of it any way, has a unique problem set though in it geography. The problem, noted very well in "Guns, Germs, and Steel," by Jared Diamond, does an excellent job scoping this basis.

Simply put, Africa is different. Commodity crops like wheat, for example, do very well in Northern climates, that stretches from France all the way into Asia. In sharp contrast, these crops do poorly in Africa's sub-tropical climates, and the crops that do grow well there are much more man power intensive. That has given Northern societies a distinct advantage as agriculture requires fewer people and frees up others for different jobs.

The difference in climate has other issues for most of Africa, think mosquitos, lends itself to other challenges like combating diseases. The tightly packed European model of cities can become a breeding ground for disease, and cash strapped countries can find that process wholly disheartening as they attempt to allocate scarce resources of long term economic growth against disease prevention, which, untreated, effects long term economic growth.

Simply put, Africa is excluded from the easy solution of just adopting Western policies like Korea and Japan did (which is itself an over simplification - but limited space and all)

That being said, there are solutions to these problems, and there are some African Nations that are doing well as they implement these policies. Yet the fact remains that the single biggest issue facing Africa is not the residual effects of colonialism, its bad governance: government more interested in rapacious policies of extraction and self enrichment rather than tackling the problems of post colonial reality.

We do Africa no favors by treating them like victims and excusing corruption and cronyism: the true cause of African 'failure'.
Iredia
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4/6/2014 4:45:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/29/2014 12:22:54 AM, Adam2 wrote:
Imagine if the Brits, Danes and Swedes never went to Africa. Africa wouldn't be in the Troubles (an allusion to the situation in Ireland) that they're in.

Yes but they probably wouldn't have made the advances in science and (to a lesser extent) technology Europe made. What I think would have happened (especially in West Africa) is that they would have evolved to a feudal state of some sort (many were tending to that before Europeans came) and there would have been empires. However, cultural and environmental factors suggest to me that the attendant flourishing (in all spheres of human endeavour) that comes with such systems would be limited. For one, there was no writing, explorers were available but not as well placed given location and lack of sophisticated marine skills, religious superstition (can't ignore that) etc. So while I am sure that politically Africa would have been very good if Europeans hadn't come, I can't say the same in other respects.
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Iredia
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4/6/2014 5:03:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/30/2014 3:32:54 AM, neutral wrote:
I think you need to take a broader geographic view of the situation.

Africa is not the only place to be colonized. Asia, think boxer rebellion and the death of 20 million Chinese, were absolutely brutalized by Western Colonial rule. And yet, Asia has by in large risen above that Colonial rulership, and is doing rather well comparatively. A lot of this comes down to something that still troubles Africa, good governance. Government in Asia set policies that encouraged education and economic growth and have reaped the rewards.

There are African Nations that are doing the same.

Africa, or a great deal of it any way, has a unique problem set though in it geography. The problem, noted very well in "Guns, Germs, and Steel," by Jared Diamond, does an excellent job scoping this basis.

Simply put, Africa is different. Commodity crops like wheat, for example, do very well in Northern climates, that stretches from France all the way into Asia. In sharp contrast, these crops do poorly in Africa's sub-tropical climates, and the crops that do grow well there are much more man power intensive. That has given Northern societies a distinct advantage as agriculture requires fewer people and frees up others for different jobs.

The difference in climate has other issues for most of Africa, think mosquitos, lends itself to other challenges like combating diseases. The tightly packed European model of cities can become a breeding ground for disease, and cash strapped countries can find that process wholly disheartening as they attempt to allocate scarce resources of long term economic growth against disease prevention, which, untreated, effects long term economic growth.

Simply put, Africa is excluded from the easy solution of just adopting Western policies like Korea and Japan did (which is itself an over simplification - but limited space and all)

That being said, there are solutions to these problems, and there are some African Nations that are doing well as they implement these policies. Yet the fact remains that the single biggest issue facing Africa is not the residual effects of colonialism, its bad governance: government more interested in rapacious policies of extraction and self enrichment rather than tackling the problems of post colonial reality.

We do Africa no favors by treating them like victims and excusing corruption and cronyism: the true cause of African 'failure'.

Very correct. But I would still insist that the residual effects of colonialism shouldn't be discounted; cultural shock as well (IOW traditional African societies coming to terms with what's going on in the Western world). These factors are still much in play; the same way revolutions in Europe (the French revolution, Industrial revolution etc) inform the successes and failures of the modern world.
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Adam2
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4/12/2014 7:13:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 4:45:20 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/29/2014 12:22:54 AM, Adam2 wrote:
Imagine if the Brits, Danes and Swedes never went to Africa. Africa wouldn't be in the Troubles (an allusion to the situation in Ireland) that they're in.

Yes but they probably wouldn't have made the advances in science and (to a lesser extent) technology Europe made. What I think would have happened (especially in West Africa) is that they would have evolved to a feudal state of some sort (many were tending to that before Europeans came) and there would have been empires. However, cultural and environmental factors suggest to me that the attendant flourishing (in all spheres of human endeavour) that comes with such systems would be limited. For one, there was no writing, explorers were available but not as well placed given location and lack of sophisticated marine skills, religious superstition (can't ignore that) etc. So while I am sure that politically Africa would have been very good if Europeans hadn't come, I can't say the same in other respects.

True but the things the Danes and Brits did were f--ked up. These Lutheran scumbags.
Iredia
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4/13/2014 1:53:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 7:13:27 PM, Adam2 wrote:
At 4/6/2014 4:45:20 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/29/2014 12:22:54 AM, Adam2 wrote:
Imagine if the Brits, Danes and Swedes never went to Africa. Africa wouldn't be in the Troubles (an allusion to the situation in Ireland) that they're in.

Yes but they probably wouldn't have made the advances in science and (to a lesser extent) technology Europe made. What I think would have happened (especially in West Africa) is that they would have evolved to a feudal state of some sort (many were tending to that before Europeans came) and there would have been empires. However, cultural and environmental factors suggest to me that the attendant flourishing (in all spheres of human endeavour) that comes with such systems would be limited. For one, there was no writing, explorers were available but not as well placed given location and lack of sophisticated marine skills, religious superstition (can't ignore that) etc. So while I am sure that politically Africa would have been very good if Europeans hadn't come, I can't say the same in other respects.

True but the things the Danes and Brits did were f--ked up. These Lutheran scumbags.

I know of Brits, French, Dutch and Germans. Where did Swedes or Danes colonize in Africa ?
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Adam2
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4/13/2014 2:20:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/13/2014 1:53:48 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 4/12/2014 7:13:27 PM, Adam2 wrote:
At 4/6/2014 4:45:20 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/29/2014 12:22:54 AM, Adam2 wrote:
Imagine if the Brits, Danes and Swedes never went to Africa. Africa wouldn't be in the Troubles (an allusion to the situation in Ireland) that they're in.

Yes but they probably wouldn't have made the advances in science and (to a lesser extent) technology Europe made. What I think would have happened (especially in West Africa) is that they would have evolved to a feudal state of some sort (many were tending to that before Europeans came) and there would have been empires. However, cultural and environmental factors suggest to me that the attendant flourishing (in all spheres of human endeavour) that comes with such systems would be limited. For one, there was no writing, explorers were available but not as well placed given location and lack of sophisticated marine skills, religious superstition (can't ignore that) etc. So while I am sure that politically Africa would have been very good if Europeans hadn't come, I can't say the same in other respects.

True but the things the Danes and Brits did were f--ked up. These Lutheran scumbags.

I know of Brits, French, Dutch and Germans. Where did Swedes or Danes colonize in Africa ?

Well Denmark had the Gold Coast, until they sold it to Britain in 1848 I believe. I mean they didn't teach you this in school? What kinda dumb schools do they make these days?
Adam2
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4/13/2014 2:21:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/13/2014 1:53:48 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 4/12/2014 7:13:27 PM, Adam2 wrote:
At 4/6/2014 4:45:20 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/29/2014 12:22:54 AM, Adam2 wrote:
Imagine if the Brits, Danes and Swedes never went to Africa. Africa wouldn't be in the Troubles (an allusion to the situation in Ireland) that they're in.

Yes but they probably wouldn't have made the advances in science and (to a lesser extent) technology Europe made. What I think would have happened (especially in West Africa) is that they would have evolved to a feudal state of some sort (many were tending to that before Europeans came) and there would have been empires. However, cultural and environmental factors suggest to me that the attendant flourishing (in all spheres of human endeavour) that comes with such systems would be limited. For one, there was no writing, explorers were available but not as well placed given location and lack of sophisticated marine skills, religious superstition (can't ignore that) etc. So while I am sure that politically Africa would have been very good if Europeans hadn't come, I can't say the same in other respects.

True but the things the Danes and Brits did were f--ked up. These Lutheran scumbags.

I know of Brits, French, Dutch and Germans. Where did Swedes or Danes colonize in Africa ?

I mean knowing that Denmark had the Gold Coast should be common knowledge.
Adam2
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4/13/2014 2:22:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/13/2014 1:53:48 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 4/12/2014 7:13:27 PM, Adam2 wrote:
At 4/6/2014 4:45:20 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/29/2014 12:22:54 AM, Adam2 wrote:
Imagine if the Brits, Danes and Swedes never went to Africa. Africa wouldn't be in the Troubles (an allusion to the situation in Ireland) that they're in.

Yes but they probably wouldn't have made the advances in science and (to a lesser extent) technology Europe made. What I think would have happened (especially in West Africa) is that they would have evolved to a feudal state of some sort (many were tending to that before Europeans came) and there would have been empires. However, cultural and environmental factors suggest to me that the attendant flourishing (in all spheres of human endeavour) that comes with such systems would be limited. For one, there was no writing, explorers were available but not as well placed given location and lack of sophisticated marine skills, religious superstition (can't ignore that) etc. So while I am sure that politically Africa would have been very good if Europeans hadn't come, I can't say the same in other respects.

True but the things the Danes and Brits did were f--ked up. These Lutheran scumbags.

I know of Brits, French, Dutch and Germans. Where did Swedes or Danes colonize in Africa ?

BTW it was mostly Scotland that was behind the goddamn British Empire, especially the Lowlands.
Iredia
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4/13/2014 3:12:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/13/2014 2:21:27 AM, Adam2 wrote:


I mean knowing that Denmark had the Gold Coast should be common knowledge.

I just Googled it. Well I guess it wasn't taught since they were less prominent the way the Brits and the French were. After all, how many people in the Congo will know they were first colonized by the Germans; or who emphasizes the role of the Portugese and Dutch explorers in opening up parts of Africa to trade. All this I learnt outside school albeit from books (and Google).
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WheezySquash8
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4/17/2014 4:17:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/27/2014 1:02:47 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Alternate history map of a modern, never-colonized Africa. It's upside down to break the Western psychological perspective.

https://pbs.twimg.com...

Wow. That's interesting. I think that Africa was placed on the wrong side of history, and could've been better if it didn't get what it was set up for.
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