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Roman Empire vs King Henry VIII

Gump
Posts: 67
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8/18/2014 12:05:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Honestly I think if the roman empire ever reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them. None of the Roman empire had good generals, they only had strength in numbers. This is proved time and time again in the history books which state that many battles between the Romans and Norwegian Gauls ended because the Gauls were swamped by a massive amount of Romans.

If the Romans reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them in tactics like he had done many times before with the Spanish. Im up for all opinions but it will be hard arguing that the Romans could have defeated King Henry VIII, never mind ever reaching England. As the Romans didnt have boats.
STALIN
Posts: 3,726
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8/19/2014 6:09:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 12:05:33 AM, Gump wrote:
Honestly I think if the roman empire ever reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them. None of the Roman empire had good generals, they only had strength in numbers. This is proved time and time again in the history books which state that many battles between the Romans and Norwegian Gauls ended because the Gauls were swamped by a massive amount of Romans.

If the Romans reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them in tactics like he had done many times before with the Spanish. Im up for all opinions but it will be hard arguing that the Romans could have defeated King Henry VIII, never mind ever reaching England. As the Romans didnt have boats.

The Roman Empire did reach England and conquered all of it stopping at Scotland. Your point about the Roman army only having strength in numbers is incorrect. On the battlefield in the open, the Roman army could defeat any other army in Europe. The main reason they were not able to conquer Germania and Scotland was because the Picts and German tribes never fought in the open. They always raided and ambushed the Romans were they were weakest. It is almost like the Partisan war Nazi Germany encountered when they invaded the USSR. The Nazi could never defeat the Partisans because they never fought the Germans in the open.
Daghini
Posts: 31
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8/20/2014 9:30:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
You say Rome did not have good generals? what about Scipio Africanus, Julius Caesar and Gauis Marius? They achieved great 'fleets' (they had boats, Triremes ;) ) and they did reach Britian, Claudius was the emperor who did it. Caesar only beat the Britians... in a naval battle. Henry VIII wasnt that great of a general, and he wasnt at war with them, they had an alliance against France... So yeah :)
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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8/22/2014 3:40:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 12:05:33 AM, Gump wrote:
Honestly I think if the roman empire ever reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them. None of the Roman empire had good generals, they only had strength in numbers. This is proved time and time again in the history books which state that many battles between the Romans and Norwegian Gauls ended because the Gauls were swamped by a massive amount of Romans.

If the Romans reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them in tactics like he had done many times before with the Spanish. Im up for all opinions but it will be hard arguing that the Romans could have defeated King Henry VIII, never mind ever reaching England. As the Romans didnt have boats.

that's a bit too extreme of a scenario you asked, depend on how much you want to turn the tide of history "survived Roman Empire" can be as large as France, Spain, Italy, possibly even north Africa, Greek, Syria, and Egypt. Roman Empire at its highest level of power with reformed administration can easily killed every inhabitant of British through attrition alone.

In a more realistic sense, France, Spain, and Italy are one of the core provinces of western Roman Empire, if their combined forces can't beat Britain in our timeline, I doubt the Roman can do any better. However, as I said earlier, too many unknown.
Otokage
Posts: 2,360
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8/22/2014 5:17:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 12:05:33 AM, Gump wrote:
Honestly I think if the roman empire ever reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them. None of the Roman empire had good generals, they only had strength in numbers. This is proved time and time again in the history books which state that many battles between the Romans and Norwegian Gauls ended because the Gauls were swamped by a massive amount of Romans.

If the Romans reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them in tactics like he had done many times before with the Spanish. Im up for all opinions but it will be hard arguing that the Romans could have defeated King Henry VIII, never mind ever reaching England. As the Romans didnt have boats.

But "which" roman empire you are talking about? 1st century? 3rd century? In the worst scenario, Rome would be half Europe so I find it difficult for the UK to resist an attack. I mean, Rome could even cut all british trading with southern Europe and create a financial embargo Obama-style, lol
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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8/24/2014 12:31:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/22/2014 5:17:09 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 8/18/2014 12:05:33 AM, Gump wrote:
Honestly I think if the roman empire ever reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them. None of the Roman empire had good generals, they only had strength in numbers. This is proved time and time again in the history books which state that many battles between the Romans and Norwegian Gauls ended because the Gauls were swamped by a massive amount of Romans.

If the Romans reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them in tactics like he had done many times before with the Spanish. Im up for all opinions but it will be hard arguing that the Romans could have defeated King Henry VIII, never mind ever reaching England. As the Romans didnt have boats.

But "which" roman empire you are talking about? 1st century? 3rd century? In the worst scenario, Rome would be half Europe so I find it difficult for the UK to resist an attack. I mean, Rome could even cut all british trading with southern Europe and create a financial embargo Obama-style, lol

No, the worst scenario Rome would be half of Europe plus North Africa, Plus Middle East, plus Greek and Asia Minor.
Otokage
Posts: 2,360
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8/24/2014 4:14:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/24/2014 12:31:40 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 8/22/2014 5:17:09 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 8/18/2014 12:05:33 AM, Gump wrote:
Honestly I think if the roman empire ever reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them. None of the Roman empire had good generals, they only had strength in numbers. This is proved time and time again in the history books which state that many battles between the Romans and Norwegian Gauls ended because the Gauls were swamped by a massive amount of Romans.

If the Romans reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them in tactics like he had done many times before with the Spanish. Im up for all opinions but it will be hard arguing that the Romans could have defeated King Henry VIII, never mind ever reaching England. As the Romans didnt have boats.

But "which" roman empire you are talking about? 1st century? 3rd century? In the worst scenario, Rome would be half Europe so I find it difficult for the UK to resist an attack. I mean, Rome could even cut all british trading with southern Europe and create a financial embargo Obama-style, lol

No, the worst scenario Rome would be half of Europe plus North Africa, Plus Middle East, plus Greek and Asia Minor.

Yeah. Exactly lol
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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11/4/2014 11:01:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Superior est Romanus
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Unitomic
Posts: 591
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11/4/2014 11:36:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Rome very well had great general, including Julius Caesar, Scipio Africanus, Pompeius, Trajan, Belisuarius, and many others. In fact Roman generals typically have at least 2 to three spots on most Top 10 generals page. Of which i don't think I've ever seen Henry 8th.

Rome was often outnumbered. boudicca outnumber Rome 8-10 to one. {1} Alesia, where modern estimates put the forces at 80,000 Romans against (and hit both front and back by) 100,000 Gauls. And while the Romans were stretched out along the wall, the Gaelic forces attacked at specific points. {2} Messena {3}, Zama {4}, Pydnaa {5}. And that's just the beginning.

1: http://en.wikipedia.org...
2: http://en.wikipedia.org...
3: http://en.wikipedia.org...
4: http://en.wikipedia.org...
5: http://en.wikipedia.org...

As for the Gaelic Wars. The talk or Norwegian Gauls make no sense. But the swamping of Gauls were not really... existant. Bibracte, 50,000 troops vs 90,000 veteran Helvetii {6}, Vosque {7}, Axona {8}, Sabis {9}, and the aforementioned Alesia.

6: http://en.wikipedia.org...
7: http://en.wikipedia.org...
8: http://en.wikipedia.org...
9: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Now lets hit up quality. Henry's Army, like most of the age, would have been a very small professional force (I think I read once it was 5,000 strong, but that may have been the full force he attacked with in that one instance), surrounded by militia. Roman arms were fully professional (legions and most auxillia at least), standerdised, trained {10}, could perform complex maneouvers and respond to most situations on the dot {11}, and often time were veteran. Their officers were often very veteran, and discipline was immense. It was an army of 300,000 men who were better trained, equipped {12/13/14}, and led then All but Henry's thousand or so best troops .
Tudor troops of the age were equipped with a variety of weapons (not always a good thing), the best of which was the cannon. One advantage won't win this war. And you can't use examples of guns scaring off militia-grade barbarians, as the Roman's were professional.

10: http://www.roman-empire.net...
11: http://en.wikipedia.org...
12: http://en.wikipedia.org...
13: http://www.crystalinks.com...
14: http://www.au.af.mil...

Rome didn't have boats?..... {15-19}.

15: http://en.wikipedia.org...
16: http://www.roman-empire.net...
17: http://www.unrv.com...
18: http://www.ancient.eu...
19: http://en.wikipedia.org...

And lastly, Rome has been around the block, there isn't much it hasn't fought. militia-grade troops won't stand up to Rome for long {20}

20: http://en.wikipedia.org...

==Unitomic==
Atheist-Independent
Posts: 776
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11/7/2014 12:15:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/18/2014 12:05:33 AM, Gump wrote:
Honestly I think if the roman empire ever reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them. None of the Roman empire had good generals, they only had strength in numbers. This is proved time and time again in the history books which state that many battles between the Romans and Norwegian Gauls ended because the Gauls were swamped by a massive amount of Romans.

If the Romans reached England, King Henry VIII would have been able to defeat them in tactics like he had done many times before with the Spanish. Im up for all opinions but it will be hard arguing that the Romans could have defeated King Henry VIII, never mind ever reaching England. As the Romans didnt have boats.

Why Henry VIII? He wasn't known for military prowess, or at least not as much as Henry V or Edward I.