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Propaganda in History

XLAV
Posts: 13,708
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12/2/2014 9:09:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Anyone who likes to study wars and history should know the saying, "History is written by victors." or similar quotes like that. I just watched a 6-hour documentary about Hitler's story that was never told and it showed me that Hitler wasn't the "bad" guy. I haven't fully watched it , nor have I did research yet, but from what I was able to watch, it was pretty convincing.

I ask everyone this, why should we trust the makers of our history books? How can you tell apart the propaganda history books from the legit history books?

Documentary right here --------->
Atheist-Independent
Posts: 776
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12/3/2014 7:03:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 9:49:55 AM, XLAV wrote:
Are there any WW2 experts here?

YES! I love WWII (by that I mean to study it).
Atheist-Independent
Posts: 776
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12/3/2014 7:07:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 9:09:02 AM, XLAV wrote:
Anyone who likes to study wars and history should know the saying, "History is written by victors." or similar quotes like that. I just watched a 6-hour documentary about Hitler's story that was never told and it showed me that Hitler wasn't the "bad" guy. I haven't fully watched it , nor have I did research yet, but from what I was able to watch, it was pretty convincing.

I ask everyone this, why should we trust the makers of our history books? How can you tell apart the propaganda history books from the legit history books?

Documentary right here --------->


Either way, propaganda is what truly propelled the Nazi's into power. They utilized in for events such as the bombing of Guernica and Rotterdam to strike fear in the Allied countries about their supposedly unstoppable military. This of course is a lie, as the German military was severely flawed. The impeccable Panzer divisions were dreadful by the end of the war as they were constantly defeated by the Soviet T-34 and American Sherman tanks. The Luftwaffe overall was a disaster as they focused solely on short rang tactical bombers, not more helpful long rand strategic bombers. The only reason why Hitler was able to keep the US and the Soviet Union out of the war for so long was because of his propaganda.

Setting the war itself aside, propaganda was instrumental for Hitler to establish himself as F"rher. He used it brilliantly to condemn the Jews (such as in the film the Eternal Jew) and to support the Aryan race. The German people legitimately loved Hitler primarily because of the propaganda put together by Goebelles.
Atheist-Independent
Posts: 776
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12/3/2014 7:11:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 9:09:02 AM, XLAV wrote:
"it showed me that Hitler wasn't the "bad" guy..."

Do not believe that Hitler was a good, or at least not a bad, person. He was evil. The murder of 7 million Jews and support for tens of millions of Russian, French, American, Spanish, Ethiopian, Norwegian, Danish, Chinese, British, Canadian, and countless others deaths should assure you of that.

What the film may show you is that Hitler is not solely guilty for the offenses. People like Goebelles and G"ring were very important Nazi's who did horrible things even without the order of the F"rher. But remember that Hitler was eventually the one who gave the orders to invade Poland, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, and Greece.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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12/4/2014 1:15:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 7:11:17 PM, Atheist-Independent wrote:
At 12/2/2014 9:09:02 AM, XLAV wrote:
"it showed me that Hitler wasn't the "bad" guy..."

Do not believe that Hitler was a good, or at least not a bad, person. He was evil. The murder of 7 million Jews and support for tens of millions of Russian, French, American, Spanish, Ethiopian, Norwegian, Danish, Chinese, British, Canadian, and countless others deaths should assure you of that.

What the film may show you is that Hitler is not solely guilty for the offenses. People like Goebelles and G"ring were very important Nazi's who did horrible things even without the order of the F"rher. But remember that Hitler was eventually the one who gave the orders to invade Poland, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, and Greece.

I will only give you credit for the first part - military aggression is hardly an absolute evil, The US would have been the most evil nation on earth if that is the case.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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12/4/2014 1:17:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 9:09:02 AM, XLAV wrote:
Anyone who likes to study wars and history should know the saying, "History is written by victors." or similar quotes like that. I just watched a 6-hour documentary about Hitler's story that was never told and it showed me that Hitler wasn't the "bad" guy. I haven't fully watched it , nor have I did research yet, but from what I was able to watch, it was pretty convincing.

I ask everyone this, why should we trust the makers of our history books? How can you tell apart the propaganda history books from the legit history books?

Documentary right here --------->


oh my.. I love history but I will not going to spend five hours watching that, how about tell us just what exactly are the cases you want to discuss?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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12/4/2014 4:57:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 7:11:17 PM, Atheist-Independent wrote:
At 12/2/2014 9:09:02 AM, XLAV wrote:
"it showed me that Hitler wasn't the "bad" guy..."

Do not believe that Hitler was a good, or at least not a bad, person. He was evil. The murder of 7 million Jews and support for tens of millions of Russian, French, American, Spanish, Ethiopian, Norwegian, Danish, Chinese, British, Canadian, and countless others deaths should assure you of that.

What the film may show you is that Hitler is not solely guilty for the offenses. People like Goebelles and G"ring were very important Nazi's who did horrible things even without the order of the F"rher. But remember that Hitler was eventually the one who gave the orders to invade Poland, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, and Greece.

Had Hitler won the eastern front, do you think the Holocaust would have occurred?

Another question - had the US lost to Japan, do you think the Japanese internment camps would have turned into Nazi-like concentration camps?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
XLAV
Posts: 13,708
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12/4/2014 5:48:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 1:17:10 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/2/2014 9:09:02 AM, XLAV wrote:
Anyone who likes to study wars and history should know the saying, "History is written by victors." or similar quotes like that. I just watched a 6-hour documentary about Hitler's story that was never told and it showed me that Hitler wasn't the "bad" guy. I haven't fully watched it , nor have I did research yet, but from what I was able to watch, it was pretty convincing.

I ask everyone this, why should we trust the makers of our history books? How can you tell apart the propaganda history books from the legit history books?

Documentary right here --------->


oh my.. I love history but I will not going to spend five hours watching that, how about tell us just what exactly are the cases you want to discuss?

Well for one, should I trust this documentary? Why or why not?

One of the things the documentary showed me was the reason why Hitler invaded Poland. His reason was because he wanted to save the Germans living in Poland, who were being suppressed by the government. Another thing is, Hitler tried make peace with France and Britain after he conquered Poland and crushed the British and French forces, but British Government ignored their peace offerings. I forgot what the French government said, but I think they were already conquered by the Germans so they didn't say anything.

Hitler's motive for attacking Russia was because he was worried of the Russian's expansion and he wanted to avoid the possibility of Russia backstabbing them.

The documentary also stated that the Allies weren't all that good. They did their share of massacres like the Bleiburg Repatriations.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

So far, that's some of the stuff I learned from where I stopped in the documentary.

tl'dr, Hitler was just protecting his people.
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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12/4/2014 6:01:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 5:48:20 AM, XLAV wrote:
tl'dr, Hitler was just protecting his people.

'cept for the jews and gypsies and other foul people living in Germany right?
XLAV
Posts: 13,708
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12/4/2014 10:18:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/3/2014 7:11:17 PM, Atheist-Independent wrote:
At 12/2/2014 9:09:02 AM, XLAV wrote:
"it showed me that Hitler wasn't the "bad" guy..."

Do not believe that Hitler was a good, or at least not a bad, person. He was evil. The murder of 7 million Jews and support for tens of millions of Russian, French, American, Spanish, Ethiopian, Norwegian, Danish, Chinese, British, Canadian, and countless others deaths should assure you of that.
My concern is if the history books we have today are truthful. Our society today thinks Hitler was evil, but what if they were lies that were written by the winners?


What the film may show you is that Hitler is not solely guilty for the offenses. People like Goebelles and G"ring were very important Nazi's who did horrible things even without the order of the F"rher. But remember that Hitler was eventually the one who gave the orders to invade Poland, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, and Greece.
According to the documentary, Hitler gave the orders to invade Poland because the Polish government were supressing the German people. He gave the orders to invade France to take them off the war quickly and gain more ground. He gave the orders to invade Russia to defend Europe from Russia's expansion. Germany wanted peace with Britain, but the British government ignored the proposals. Hitler just wanted to protect his people.

Also, the allies did some massacres too.

Things like this, were not taught in schools (my school at least).
So should I trust this documentary?
XLAV
Posts: 13,708
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12/4/2014 10:22:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 6:01:18 AM, mortsdor wrote:
At 12/4/2014 5:48:20 AM, XLAV wrote:
tl'dr, Hitler was just protecting his people.

'cept for the jews and gypsies and other foul people living in Germany right?

Everyone hated the Jews back then, lol. Them controlling the banks and all.
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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12/4/2014 11:01:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 10:22:41 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 12/4/2014 6:01:18 AM, mortsdor wrote:
At 12/4/2014 5:48:20 AM, XLAV wrote:
tl'dr, Hitler was just protecting his people.

'cept for the jews and gypsies and other foul people living in Germany right?

Everyone hated the Jews back then, lol. Them controlling the banks and all.

not everyone threw them in inhumane work camps under horrible conditions...

and not everyone gassed them to death...
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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12/4/2014 2:15:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 5:48:20 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 12/4/2014 1:17:10 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/2/2014 9:09:02 AM, XLAV wrote:
Anyone who likes to study wars and history should know the saying, "History is written by victors." or similar quotes like that. I just watched a 6-hour documentary about Hitler's story that was never told and it showed me that Hitler wasn't the "bad" guy. I haven't fully watched it , nor have I did research yet, but from what I was able to watch, it was pretty convincing.

I ask everyone this, why should we trust the makers of our history books? How can you tell apart the propaganda history books from the legit history books?

Documentary right here --------->


oh my.. I love history but I will not going to spend five hours watching that, how about tell us just what exactly are the cases you want to discuss?

Well for one, should I trust this documentary? Why or why not?

One of the things the documentary showed me was the reason why Hitler invaded Poland. His reason was because he wanted to save the Germans living in Poland, who were being suppressed by the government. Another thing is, Hitler tried make peace with France and Britain after he conquered Poland and crushed the British and French forces, but British Government ignored their peace offerings. I forgot what the French government said, but I think they were already conquered by the Germans so they didn't say anything.

Hitler's motive for attacking Russia was because he was worried of the Russian's expansion and he wanted to avoid the possibility of Russia backstabbing them.

The documentary also stated that the Allies weren't all that good. They did their share of massacres like the Bleiburg Repatriations.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

So far, that's some of the stuff I learned from where I stopped in the documentary.

tl'dr, Hitler was just protecting his people.

If that's what you are concerned, yes, all of the above are true. Not sure if that is in your school text book, but yes, that's a common fact widely believed by historian today.

Hitler has always been portrayed as cruel, fanatic, and even lunatic during the last few years of his life - but no one ever doubt his conviction to his people (as in his white non-jew, non-Slavic people).

Do you know that prior to the WWII, the connotation of the term "racist" has never been as offensive as it is today. After all, it makes sense to protect and promote the interest of your ethnicity above other which has been the centre of European and Westernised Asian ideology ever since the dawn of early modern era, literally everyone is racist until Hitler had proved it to be such a monstrosity. Then, the tide has been turned against the idea with the emergence of internationalist American and Soviet until it become the pinnacle of political incorrectness as it is today.

that doesn't mean he do not deserve his condemnation though, he might means well (for the white people overall) and his political goal is more realistic rather than fanatical - at least in his early stage, but in the end he was cruel enough to exterminate more 6 million people just to get rid of the "bad gene" from entering his European stock and to egoistic to back down when it becomes clear that he could not win. Make no mistake, he is evil, just may not be as evil as what you initially thought.
scots
Posts: 167
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12/4/2014 2:15:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What about the people who actually survived the wars like the survivors of the camps? If Hitler really was a good guy then why do all these people say he was not. and some Germans even plotted to assassinate Hitler many times. Many Germans were also not Nazi's.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Here is the plot against Hitler on the 20th of July. It was orchestrated by his officials, So if even the German people believed he was a bad person, Then the victors were mostly likely telling the truth.

"It is obvious that the war which Hitler and his accomplices waged was a war not only against Jewish men, women, and children, but also against Jewish religion, Jewish culture, Jewish tradition, therefore Jewish memory."
R13; Elie Wiesel, Night
"Count your age by friends, not years. Count your life by smiles, not tears."
- John Lennon
mortsdor
Posts: 1,181
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12/4/2014 2:45:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/4/2014 5:48:20 AM, XLAV wrote:
His reason was because he wanted to save the Germans living in Poland, who were being suppressed by the government.

Here's the history channel's perspective on that:
http://www.history.com...
XLAV
Posts: 13,708
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12/7/2014 11:04:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2014 2:15:49 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/4/2014 5:48:20 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 12/4/2014 1:17:10 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/2/2014 9:09:02 AM, XLAV wrote:
Anyone who likes to study wars and history should know the saying, "History is written by victors." or similar quotes like that. I just watched a 6-hour documentary about Hitler's story that was never told and it showed me that Hitler wasn't the "bad" guy. I haven't fully watched it , nor have I did research yet, but from what I was able to watch, it was pretty convincing.

I ask everyone this, why should we trust the makers of our history books? How can you tell apart the propaganda history books from the legit history books?

Documentary right here --------->


oh my.. I love history but I will not going to spend five hours watching that, how about tell us just what exactly are the cases you want to discuss?

Well for one, should I trust this documentary? Why or why not?

One of the things the documentary showed me was the reason why Hitler invaded Poland. His reason was because he wanted to save the Germans living in Poland, who were being suppressed by the government. Another thing is, Hitler tried make peace with France and Britain after he conquered Poland and crushed the British and French forces, but British Government ignored their peace offerings. I forgot what the French government said, but I think they were already conquered by the Germans so they didn't say anything.

Hitler's motive for attacking Russia was because he was worried of the Russian's expansion and he wanted to avoid the possibility of Russia backstabbing them.

The documentary also stated that the Allies weren't all that good. They did their share of massacres like the Bleiburg Repatriations.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

So far, that's some of the stuff I learned from where I stopped in the documentary.

tl'dr, Hitler was just protecting his people.

If that's what you are concerned, yes, all of the above are true. Not sure if that is in your school text book, but yes, that's a common fact widely believed by historian today.

Hitler has always been portrayed as cruel, fanatic, and even lunatic during the last few years of his life - but no one ever doubt his conviction to his people (as in his white non-jew, non-Slavic people).

Do you know that prior to the WWII, the connotation of the term "racist" has never been as offensive as it is today. After all, it makes sense to protect and promote the interest of your ethnicity above other which has been the centre of European and Westernised Asian ideology ever since the dawn of early modern era, literally everyone is racist until Hitler had proved it to be such a monstrosity. Then, the tide has been turned against the idea with the emergence of internationalist American and Soviet until it become the pinnacle of political incorrectness as it is today.

that doesn't mean he do not deserve his condemnation though, he might means well (for the white people overall) and his political goal is more realistic rather than fanatical - at least in his early stage, but in the end he was cruel enough to exterminate more 6 million people just to get rid of the "bad gene" from entering his European stock and to egoistic to back down when it becomes clear that he could not win. Make no mistake, he is evil, just may not be as evil as what you initially thought.
Ah, thanks for clarifying.

I usually research about Napoleon's era since I find the gunpowder age interesting. I'm new to WW2 and my school didn't have enough time to teach us about WW2. :(