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Was Austria in the "right" during WW1?

ErenBalkir
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8/27/2015 7:52:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
After Franz Ferdinand was assassinated, it soon became clear Serbian intelligence had helped in the attack. Austria gave them and ultimatum with 10 points, all of which Serbia accepted except for the fifth, allowing a joint investigation of those responsible across each their borders. Austria then declared war. I feel that austria was justified, considering a neighboring nation had supported the assassination of the Austrian heir and refused to allow the austrians to investigate their leads in serbia ( which would have lead to them finding out that the atack was orgainsed by the head of serbian intelligence).

Am I right?
riveroaks
Posts: 265
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8/29/2015 5:06:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/27/2015 7:52:27 PM, ErenBalkir wrote:
After Franz Ferdinand was assassinated, it soon became clear Serbian intelligence had helped in the attack. Austria gave them and ultimatum with 10 points, all of which Serbia accepted except for the fifth, allowing a joint investigation of those responsible across each their borders. Austria then declared war. I feel that austria was justified, considering a neighboring nation had supported the assassination of the Austrian heir and refused to allow the austrians to investigate their leads in serbia ( which would have lead to them finding out that the atack was orgainsed by the head of serbian intelligence).

Am I right?

There was never any evidence found in over 100 years that Serbia had any involvement at all in the Princip gang.

Austria was looking for a pretense to start a war and the assassination served their purpose.

If Princip who was a moron could have known what the results would be this psycho would have refrained.
ErenBalkir
Posts: 157
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8/29/2015 11:27:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
There was never any evidence found in over 100 years that Serbia had any involvement at all in the Princip gang.


There was evidence. Two notable organizations are referred to in connection with Young Bosnia: Narodna Odbrana and Black Hand. During a Serbian kangaroo court in French-occupied Salonika in 1916"17, Chief of Serbian Military Intelligence Dragutin Dimitrijević Apis testified that he had organized the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, in Sarajevo on 28 June 1914, (the assassin was Gavrilo Princip). In the process, he used not only his power over elements of the Serbian military, but also the Black Hand. Leaders of the Black Hand in turn had penetrated Narodna Obrana and used the Narodna organization to infiltrate the arms and assassins into Sarajevo.

I believe him. They has the passports, weapons, cyanide pills, date, time, plan and organization that only the intelligence could have supplied
Huntress
Posts: 60
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8/29/2015 12:00:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/27/2015 7:52:27 PM, ErenBalkir wrote:
After Franz Ferdinand was assassinated, it soon became clear Serbian intelligence had helped in the attack. Austria gave them and ultimatum with 10 points, all of which Serbia accepted except for the fifth, allowing a joint investigation of those responsible across each their borders. Austria then declared war. I feel that austria was justified, considering a neighboring nation had supported the assassination of the Austrian heir and refused to allow the austrians to investigate their leads in serbia ( which would have lead to them finding out that the atack was orgainsed by the head of serbian intelligence).

Am I right?

I agree. I have never understood the American and Western European justification for getting involved in WWI.
ErenBalkir
Posts: 157
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8/29/2015 12:49:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I agree. I have never understood the American and Western European justification for getting involved in WWI.

The Americans joined because of a possible alliance between Mexico and Germany and also because of U-boats attacking US shipping. Britain intervened because germany invaded neutral belgium. France and Russia just fought to help serbia.

I understand british and american reasons for joining but I don't think france or russia were justified to protect serbia.
Huntress
Posts: 60
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8/29/2015 12:59:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 12:49:54 PM, ErenBalkir wrote:
I agree. I have never understood the American and Western European justification for getting involved in WWI.

The Americans joined because of a possible alliance between Mexico and Germany and also because of U-boats attacking US shipping. Britain intervened because germany invaded neutral belgium. France and Russia just fought to help serbia.

I understand british and american reasons for joining but I don't think france or russia were justified to protect serbia.

I also think that proof they were wrong in doing it can be shown by the results of the war. The fall of the Ottoman and Austrian empires have left those areas in complete disarray to this very day. And the fall of Germany gave rise to the Nazis. Where the Ottomans reigned, ISIS.
ErenBalkir
Posts: 157
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8/29/2015 1:07:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I also think that proof they were wrong in doing it can be shown by the results of the war. The fall of the Ottoman and Austrian empires have left those areas in complete disarray to this very day. And the fall of Germany gave rise to the Nazis. Where the Ottomans reigned, ISIS.

Many argue that the terms of the peace in 1918 were harsher than Germany would have inflicted upon the allies. austria was completely broken up in to half a dozen countries, germany was crippled and left without access to east prussia as poland was created. The ottoman empire was cut up into zones that the allies tried to control but turkish nationalists managed to fight back and form modern day turkey.

I'm not sure i agree that the results of ww1 has anything to do with ISIS although there are links. It is a religious war between sunni and shia and against Muslim and infidel.
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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8/29/2015 7:16:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/27/2015 7:52:27 PM, ErenBalkir wrote:
After Franz Ferdinand was assassinated, it soon became clear Serbian intelligence had helped in the attack. Austria gave them and ultimatum with 10 points, all of which Serbia accepted except for the fifth, allowing a joint investigation of those responsible across each their borders. Austria then declared war. I feel that austria was justified, considering a neighboring nation had supported the assassination of the Austrian heir and refused to allow the austrians to investigate their leads in serbia ( which would have lead to them finding out that the atack was orgainsed by the head of serbian intelligence).

Am I right?

No.

I'm not sure if the Sebian government supported the assassination, but Austria really just wanted to expand their empire and add Serbia to that empire. Also the ultimatum that Austria sent was meant to force the Serbs to decline it.
XLAV
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8/29/2015 7:18:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 12:49:54 PM, ErenBalkir wrote:

I understand british and american reasons for joining but I don't think france or russia were justified to protect serbia.

Russia's justification was a race and nationalistic one. France was also justified because it was allied with Russia.
ErenBalkir
Posts: 157
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8/29/2015 9:10:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

I'm not sure if the Sebian government supported the assassination, but Austria really just wanted to expand their empire and add Serbia to that empire. Also the ultimatum that Austria sent was meant to force the Serbs to decline it.

First of all would knowing that Serbian intelligence knew of the assassination and aided them change your opinion? And second, have you actually read the ultimatum? It is not as harsh as many pretend. It did not ask for any territory and the only condition serbia refused was to let austria investigate in serbia.
riveroaks
Posts: 265
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8/30/2015 2:35:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 11:27:20 AM, ErenBalkir wrote:
There was never any evidence found in over 100 years that Serbia had any involvement at all in the Princip gang.


There was evidence. Two notable organizations are referred to in connection with Young Bosnia: Narodna Odbrana and Black Hand. During a Serbian kangaroo court in French-occupied Salonika in 1916"17, Chief of Serbian Military Intelligence Dragutin Dimitrijević Apis testified that he had organized the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, in Sarajevo on 28 June 1914, (the assassin was Gavrilo Princip). In the process, he used not only his power over elements of the Serbian military, but also the Black Hand. Leaders of the Black Hand in turn had penetrated Narodna Obrana and used the Narodna organization to infiltrate the arms and assassins into Sarajevo.

I believe him. They has the passports, weapons, cyanide pills, date, time, plan and organization that only the intelligence could have supplied

You will need to cite credible source documents.

In his recent publication of "To End All Wars," author Hochschild states no relationship between the assassin and Serbia was ever found. The assassin appeared to be a lone operator with a small group of follows operating on their own.
riveroaks
Posts: 265
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8/30/2015 2:39:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 12:00:28 PM, Huntress wrote:
At 8/27/2015 7:52:27 PM, ErenBalkir wrote:
After Franz Ferdinand was assassinated, it soon became clear Serbian intelligence had helped in the attack. Austria gave them and ultimatum with 10 points, all of which Serbia accepted except for the fifth, allowing a joint investigation of those responsible across each their borders. Austria then declared war. I feel that austria was justified, considering a neighboring nation had supported the assassination of the Austrian heir and refused to allow the austrians to investigate their leads in serbia ( which would have lead to them finding out that the atack was orgainsed by the head of serbian intelligence).

Am I right?

I agree. I have never understood the American and Western European justification for getting involved in WWI.

The Brits got sucked into it by their treaty with Belgium. The Kaiser invaded thru Belgium remember?

The Kaiser then blockaded the Brits.

At some point late in the war the Kaiser began unrestricted warfare on all shipping around England. Numerous American ships were sunk.

The sinking by the Germans of American shipping is what sucked the USA into the war.

Robert's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt, that's how it all happened, as Johnny Depp would say in "Pirates Of The Caribbean" !!
riveroaks
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8/30/2015 2:44:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 7:16:40 PM, XLAV wrote:
At 8/27/2015 7:52:27 PM, ErenBalkir wrote:
After Franz Ferdinand was assassinated, it soon became clear Serbian intelligence had helped in the attack. Austria gave them and ultimatum with 10 points, all of which Serbia accepted except for the fifth, allowing a joint investigation of those responsible across each their borders. Austria then declared war. I feel that austria was justified, considering a neighboring nation had supported the assassination of the Austrian heir and refused to allow the austrians to investigate their leads in serbia ( which would have lead to them finding out that the atack was orgainsed by the head of serbian intelligence).

Am I right?

No.

I'm not sure if the Sebian government supported the assassination, but Austria really just wanted to expand their empire and add Serbia to that empire. Also the ultimatum that Austria sent was meant to force the Serbs to decline it.

Exactly right !!

WW1 was merely a land grab by Austria and the Germans wanted to play too.

The Russians were the protectorate of the Serbs -- common Slavic heritage and common Eastern Orthodox Church.

Austria declared war on Serbia for no good reason other than the land grab.

Russia then declared war on Austria.

Germany then declared war on Russia BUT ATTACKED FRANCE !!!

Germany rolling through Belgium led to England declaring war on Germany.

France had no choice but to fight because she was being invaded.

USA finally declared war on Germany because Germany was sinking American ships.

That became the final straw that broke the Germans. They were near starvation and riots already anyway.
XLAV
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8/30/2015 2:54:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 2:44:52 AM, riveroaks wrote:

Germany then declared war on Russia BUT ATTACKED FRANCE !!!

France had no choice but to fight because she was being invaded.
Germany attacked France because France was an ally of Russia. They attacked France first because they wanted to take France out of the war fast. Also, Russia was still mobilizing its army, so the Germans had time to focus on France.
riveroaks
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8/30/2015 12:55:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 2:54:03 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 8/30/2015 2:44:52 AM, riveroaks wrote:

Germany then declared war on Russia BUT ATTACKED FRANCE !!!

France had no choice but to fight because she was being invaded.
Germany attacked France because France was an ally of Russia. They attacked France first because they wanted to take France out of the war fast. Also, Russia was still mobilizing its army, so the Germans had time to focus on France.

Do you get why such an unprovoked attack on France or any other country was a bad thing ??
ErenBalkir
Posts: 157
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8/30/2015 1:18:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 12:55:46 PM, riveroaks wrote:
At 8/30/2015 2:54:03 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 8/30/2015 2:44:52 AM, riveroaks wrote:

Germany then declared war on Russia BUT ATTACKED FRANCE !!!

France had no choice but to fight because she was being invaded.
Germany attacked France because France was an ally of Russia. They attacked France first because they wanted to take France out of the war fast. Also, Russia was still mobilizing its army, so the Germans had time to focus on France.

Do you get why such an unprovoked attack on France or any other country was a bad thing ??

look at my earlier posts, i give evidence. It shows that the chief of Serbian intelligence knew of and aided princip in the assassination.He admitted it himself! Austria didn't demand any land, again read the ultimatum. Imagine if the Irish government killed the British heir and then the irish chief of intelligence confessed to helping the murders! Of course sending an ultimatum asking to be allowed to investigate within Ireland is justified. Please read the ultimatum and read the confession of the serb chief.
riveroaks
Posts: 265
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8/30/2015 2:58:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 11:27:20 AM, ErenBalkir wrote:
There was never any evidence found in over 100 years that Serbia had any involvement at all in the Princip gang.


There was evidence. Two notable organizations are referred to in connection with Young Bosnia: Narodna Odbrana and Black Hand. During a Serbian kangaroo court in French-occupied Salonika in 1916"17, Chief of Serbian Military Intelligence Dragutin Dimitrijević Apis testified that he had organized the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, in Sarajevo on 28 June 1914, (the assassin was Gavrilo Princip). In the process, he used not only his power over elements of the Serbian military, but also the Black Hand. Leaders of the Black Hand in turn had penetrated Narodna Obrana and used the Narodna organization to infiltrate the arms and assassins into Sarajevo.

I believe him. They has the passports, weapons, cyanide pills, date, time, plan and organization that only the intelligence could have supplied

What is your source?

How credible is it?

How can it be confirmed?
riveroaks
Posts: 265
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8/30/2015 3:03:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
No matter how you look at it, if Austria had know its own actions against Serbia would lead the world carnage of The Great War, I doubt they would have used the assassination as a pretext for invading.

The world powers punished Austria by completely disabling her empire and leaving her a lame shadow of her previous self. After that she simply became a pawn of Nazi Germany.

17 million people died during WW1 for nothing other than the assassinations of 1 arch duke and his wife. Needless slaughter.
ErenBalkir
Posts: 157
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8/30/2015 3:30:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 3:03:57 PM, riveroaks wrote:
No matter how you look at it, if Austria had know its own actions against Serbia would lead the world carnage of The Great War, I doubt they would have used the assassination as a pretext for invading.

The world powers punished Austria by completely disabling her empire and leaving her a lame shadow of her previous self. After that she simply became a pawn of Nazi Germany.

17 million people died during WW1 for nothing other than the assassinations of 1 arch duke and his wife. Needless slaughter.

I agree that WW1 was "needless slaughter". However, most people, like yourself it seems, have bought into this lie that Serbia was completely innocent and that therefore we can at least sleep happily at night knowing that at least we were on the "right side" as it were. I am saying not only was it "needless slaughter" but that, to some degree, we were on the wrong side (especially when you consider how barbaric the tsar was in russia).

Now to your second point about proof. It is universally acknowledged and documented that Dragutin Dimitrijević,, the Chief of Serbian Military Intelligence, leader of the Black Hand, had organized the plot. see link below.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

The question that many people ask is if the Serbian government as a whole should be held responsible. There are many reasons it should be. Major Vojislav Tankosić was informing Nikola Pa"ić, the prime minister of Serbia about the plot and the PM attempted to stop the assassination but the assassins crossed the border before he could stop them. The Serbian PM informed the Austrian authorities but did not tell them who were involved in the plot (he knew everyone involved and feared they were too powerful to stop). That was the main reason he refused the ultimatum. He knew many of the high up officials who had committed the assassination and didn't want to give them up and if he did, then he himself might be assassinated.

There is no conclusive evidence to say if the PM knew of the plot but many first hand accounts say he did. One thing for sure is that Dragutin Dimitrijević planned the whole thing and serbia never gave him over to the austrians.

Sorry for my long rant but it makes me angry that not enough people know what really happened.
riveroaks
Posts: 265
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8/30/2015 9:00:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 3:30:22 PM, ErenBalkir wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:03:57 PM, riveroaks wrote:
No matter how you look at it, if Austria had know its own actions against Serbia would lead the world carnage of The Great War, I doubt they would have used the assassination as a pretext for invading.

The world powers punished Austria by completely disabling her empire and leaving her a lame shadow of her previous self. After that she simply became a pawn of Nazi Germany.

17 million people died during WW1 for nothing other than the assassinations of 1 arch duke and his wife. Needless slaughter.

I agree that WW1 was "needless slaughter". However, most people, like yourself it seems, have bought into this lie that Serbia was completely innocent and that therefore we can at least sleep happily at night knowing that at least we were on the "right side" as it were. I am saying not only was it "needless slaughter" but that, to some degree, we were on the wrong side (especially when you consider how barbaric the tsar was in russia).

Now to your second point about proof. It is universally acknowledged and documented that Dragutin Dimitrijević,, the Chief of Serbian Military Intelligence, leader of the Black Hand, had organized the plot. see link below.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

The question that many people ask is if the Serbian government as a whole should be held responsible. There are many reasons it should be. Major Vojislav Tankosić was informing Nikola Pa"ić, the prime minister of Serbia about the plot and the PM attempted to stop the assassination but the assassins crossed the border before he could stop them. The Serbian PM informed the Austrian authorities but did not tell them who were involved in the plot (he knew everyone involved and feared they were too powerful to stop). That was the main reason he refused the ultimatum. He knew many of the high up officials who had committed the assassination and didn't want to give them up and if he did, then he himself might be assassinated.

There is no conclusive evidence to say if the PM knew of the plot but many first hand accounts say he did. One thing for sure is that Dragutin Dimitrijević planned the whole thing and serbia never gave him over to the austrians.

Sorry for my long rant but it makes me angry that not enough people know what really happened.

Your reference on wiki contains the refutation of your theory:

Unknown to Dimitrijevic, Major Vojislav Tankosicwas informing Nikola Pasic, the prime minister of Serbia about the plot. Although Pasicsupported the main objectives of the Black Hand group, he did not want the assassination to take place, as he feared it would lead to a war with Austria-Hungary. He therefore gave instructions for the three young would-be-assassins to be arrested when they attempted to leave the country. However, his orders were not implemented, and the three men arrived in what was then known as the Condominium of Bosnia and Herzegovina, where they joined forces with fellow conspirators, Veljko and Vaso cubrilovic, Muhamed Mehmedbasic, Danilo Ilic, Cvjetko Popovic and Misko Jovanovic.

Nikola Pasic decided to get rid of the most prominent members of the Black Hand movement, by then officially disbanded. Dimitrijevic and several of his military colleagues were arrested and tried on charges blaming them with attempted assassination of regent Aleksandar I Karadordevic. On 23 May 1917, following the Salonika Trial, Dimitrijevic was found guilty of treason and sentenced to death. A month later, on 24 June 1917, he was executed by firing squad.

In 1953, Dimitrijevic and his co-defendants were all posthumously retried by the Supreme Court of Serbia and found not guilty, because there was no proof for their alleged participation in the assassination plot.
ErenBalkir
Posts: 157
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8/30/2015 9:14:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 9:00:44 PM, riveroaks wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:30:22 PM, ErenBalkir wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:03:57 PM, riveroaks wrote:
No matter how you look at it, if Austria had know its own actions against Serbia would lead the world carnage of The Great War, I doubt they would have used the assassination as a pretext for invading.

The world powers punished Austria by completely disabling her empire and leaving her a lame shadow of her previous self. After that she simply became a pawn of Nazi Germany.

17 million people died during WW1 for nothing other than the assassinations of 1 arch duke and his wife. Needless slaughter.

I agree that WW1 was "needless slaughter". However, most people, like yourself it seems, have bought into this lie that Serbia was completely innocent and that therefore we can at least sleep happily at night knowing that at least we were on the "right side" as it were. I am saying not only was it "needless slaughter" but that, to some degree, we were on the wrong side (especially when you consider how barbaric the tsar was in russia).

Now to your second point about proof. It is universally acknowledged and documented that Dragutin Dimitrijević,, the Chief of Serbian Military Intelligence, leader of the Black Hand, had organized the plot. see link below.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

The question that many people ask is if the Serbian government as a whole should be held responsible. There are many reasons it should be. Major Vojislav Tankosić was informing Nikola Pa"ić, the prime minister of Serbia about the plot and the PM attempted to stop the assassination but the assassins crossed the border before he could stop them. The Serbian PM informed the Austrian authorities but did not tell them who were involved in the plot (he knew everyone involved and feared they were too powerful to stop). That was the main reason he refused the ultimatum. He knew many of the high up officials who had committed the assassination and didn't want to give them up and if he did, then he himself might be assassinated.

There is no conclusive evidence to say if the PM knew of the plot but many first hand accounts say he did. One thing for sure is that Dragutin Dimitrijević planned the whole thing and serbia never gave him over to the austrians.

Sorry for my long rant but it makes me angry that not enough people know what really happened.

Your reference on wiki contains the refutation of your theory:

Unknown to Dimitrijevic, Major Vojislav Tankosicwas informing Nikola Pasic, the prime minister of Serbia about the plot. Although Pasicsupported the main objectives of the Black Hand group, he did not want the assassination to take place, as he feared it would lead to a war with Austria-Hungary. He therefore gave instructions for the three young would-be-assassins to be arrested when they attempted to leave the country. However, his orders were not implemented, and the three men arrived in what was then known as the Condominium of Bosnia and Herzegovina, where they joined forces with fellow conspirators, Veljko and Vaso cubrilovic, Muhamed Mehmedbasic, Danilo Ilic, Cvjetko Popovic and Misko Jovanovic.

Nikola Pasic decided to get rid of the most prominent members of the Black Hand movement, by then officially disbanded. Dimitrijevic and several of his military colleagues were arrested and tried on charges blaming them with attempted assassination of regent Aleksandar I Karadordevic. On 23 May 1917, following the Salonika Trial, Dimitrijevic was found guilty of treason and sentenced to death. A month later, on 24 June 1917, he was executed by firing squad.

In 1953, Dimitrijevic and his co-defendants were all posthumously retried by the Supreme Court of Serbia and found not guilty, because there was no proof for their alleged participation in the assassination plot.

can you not see? He knew of the assassination and the only warning he gave was a hint to a small diplomat in vienna that was obviously not acted upon (the language used was that "something might happen", "possibly" "maybe"). He refused to let Austria arrest those he knew were involved and even refused to admit they were involved. Afterwards and only in 1917, when the black hand became a threat, did he take them out.

1. He could have stopped it if he tried
2. He refused to admit they were involved after the attack
3. he promoted the chief of intelligence after the attack (he knew he did it)
4. He refused to let Austria investigate links to the intelligence service because he knew it would lead to the culprits high up in government
5. He refused to arrest those both austria and serbia knew to be involved.

How was he in the right?
riveroaks
Posts: 265
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8/30/2015 11:24:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/30/2015 9:14:21 PM, ErenBalkir wrote:
At 8/30/2015 9:00:44 PM, riveroaks wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:30:22 PM, ErenBalkir wrote:
At 8/30/2015 3:03:57 PM, riveroaks wrote:
No matter how you look at it, if Austria had know its own actions against Serbia would lead the world carnage of The Great War, I doubt they would have used the assassination as a pretext for invading.

The world powers punished Austria by completely disabling her empire and leaving her a lame shadow of her previous self. After that she simply became a pawn of Nazi Germany.

17 million people died during WW1 for nothing other than the assassinations of 1 arch duke and his wife. Needless slaughter.

I agree that WW1 was "needless slaughter". However, most people, like yourself it seems, have bought into this lie that Serbia was completely innocent and that therefore we can at least sleep happily at night knowing that at least we were on the "right side" as it were. I am saying not only was it "needless slaughter" but that, to some degree, we were on the wrong side (especially when you consider how barbaric the tsar was in russia).

Now to your second point about proof. It is universally acknowledged and documented that Dragutin Dimitrijević,, the Chief of Serbian Military Intelligence, leader of the Black Hand, had organized the plot. see link below.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

The question that many people ask is if the Serbian government as a whole should be held responsible. There are many reasons it should be. Major Vojislav Tankosić was informing Nikola Pa"ić, the prime minister of Serbia about the plot and the PM attempted to stop the assassination but the assassins crossed the border before he could stop them. The Serbian PM informed the Austrian authorities but did not tell them who were involved in the plot (he knew everyone involved and feared they were too powerful to stop). That was the main reason he refused the ultimatum. He knew many of the high up officials who had committed the assassination and didn't want to give them up and if he did, then he himself might be assassinated.

There is no conclusive evidence to say if the PM knew of the plot but many first hand accounts say he did. One thing for sure is that Dragutin Dimitrijević planned the whole thing and serbia never gave him over to the austrians.

Sorry for my long rant but it makes me angry that not enough people know what really happened.

Your reference on wiki contains the refutation of your theory:

Unknown to Dimitrijevic, Major Vojislav Tankosicwas informing Nikola Pasic, the prime minister of Serbia about the plot. Although Pasicsupported the main objectives of the Black Hand group, he did not want the assassination to take place, as he feared it would lead to a war with Austria-Hungary. He therefore gave instructions for the three young would-be-assassins to be arrested when they attempted to leave the country. However, his orders were not implemented, and the three men arrived in what was then known as the Condominium of Bosnia and Herzegovina, where they joined forces with fellow conspirators, Veljko and Vaso cubrilovic, Muhamed Mehmedbasic, Danilo Ilic, Cvjetko Popovic and Misko Jovanovic.

Nikola Pasic decided to get rid of the most prominent members of the Black Hand movement, by then officially disbanded. Dimitrijevic and several of his military colleagues were arrested and tried on charges blaming them with attempted assassination of regent Aleksandar I Karadordevic. On 23 May 1917, following the Salonika Trial, Dimitrijevic was found guilty of treason and sentenced to death. A month later, on 24 June 1917, he was executed by firing squad.

In 1953, Dimitrijevic and his co-defendants were all posthumously retried by the Supreme Court of Serbia and found not guilty, because there was no proof for their alleged participation in the assassination plot.

can you not see? He knew of the assassination and the only warning he gave was a hint to a small diplomat in vienna that was obviously not acted upon (the language used was that "something might happen", "possibly" "maybe"). He refused to let Austria arrest those he knew were involved and even refused to admit they were involved. Afterwards and only in 1917, when the black hand became a threat, did he take them out.

1. He could have stopped it if he tried
2. He refused to admit they were involved after the attack
3. he promoted the chief of intelligence after the attack (he knew he did it)
4. He refused to let Austria investigate links to the intelligence service because he knew it would lead to the culprits high up in government
5. He refused to arrest those both austria and serbia knew to be involved.

How was he in the right?

Austria was stupid to use any pretext for war.

They thought they could have their quiet little war with Serbia and no one else would interfere.

They completely ignored the Russian menace on their border.

They were complicit in conspiring with Germany to trigger the conflagration.

17 million people died.

It was shameful.
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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8/31/2015 2:42:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What do you mean by "right"?

Are you talking about good vs bad? If so, I don't want to break your bubble but in war there is no good and bad. Just winners and losers.
ErenBalkir
Posts: 157
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9/1/2015 6:45:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/31/2015 2:42:43 PM, XLAV wrote:
What do you mean by "right"?

Are you talking about good vs bad? If so, I don't want to break your bubble but in war there is no good and bad. Just winners and losers.

I put quotation marks around "right" to emphasis that in an imperialist war, no one is ever in the right. However if forced to choose who had the moral high ground many would choose france, russia and britain. I think it could be the other way round .