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The Vietnam war

harrytruman
Posts: 812
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11/17/2015 4:23:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
So I decided to do some research and I found out that the total death toll in Vietnam was 2,450,000, wow, I also found out that the Jewish holocaust killed 1,200,000 people, so the Vietnam War killed more than double what the Jewish holocaust did.
https://en.wikipedia.org...
withywindle
Posts: 33
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11/19/2015 6:17:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:23:35 AM, harrytruman wrote:
So I decided to do some research and I found out that the total death toll in Vietnam was 2,450,000, wow, I also found out that the Jewish holocaust killed 1,200,000 people, so the Vietnam War killed more than double what the Jewish holocaust did.
https://en.wikipedia.org...

With all due respect, even conservative estimates place the number of deaths that occurred as a direct result of the holocaust more than five times the number of casualties you listed here attributed to the Vietnam war.

Second, your estimate of the Vietnam casualties is a wide sweep counting people who are unconfirmed victims or who's death was simply associated in some way. If we use the same broad associative inclusion with the holocaust, then we might as well include the total death toll of the second world war.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/22/2015 1:22:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 6:17:49 AM, withywindle wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:23:35 AM, harrytruman wrote:
So I decided to do some research and I found out that the total death toll in Vietnam was 2,450,000, wow, I also found out that the Jewish holocaust killed 1,200,000 people, so the Vietnam War killed more than double what the Jewish holocaust did.
https://en.wikipedia.org...

With all due respect, even conservative estimates place the number of deaths that occurred as a direct result of the holocaust more than five times the number of casualties you listed here attributed to the Vietnam war.

Second, your estimate of the Vietnam casualties is a wide sweep counting people who are unconfirmed victims or who's death was simply associated in some way. If we use the same broad associative inclusion with the holocaust, then we might as well include the total death toll of the second world war.

Not that the numbers aren't way too large, but I think the traditional 6 million Jews dying number is excessive and exxagerated. My personal belief is that it's somewhere around 2 million.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/22/2015 1:24:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 4:24:42 PM, XLAV wrote:
It annoys me that some American's don't consider The Vietnam War a 'lose' for them.

We were winning that war, but liberals lost heart. The war probably wasn't worth the price whether winning or not, and I'd probably lose heart also, but we were winning, until the media got so easily manipulated by the Vietnamese generals.
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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11/23/2015 11:07:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/22/2015 1:24:04 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/20/2015 4:24:42 PM, XLAV wrote:
It annoys me that some American's don't consider The Vietnam War a 'lose' for them.

We were winning that war, but liberals lost heart. The war probably wasn't worth the price whether winning or not, and I'd probably lose heart also, but we were winning, until the media got so easily manipulated by the Vietnamese generals.

Yes, the Americans were winning the war, I don't doubt that, but the Americans lost it politically/socially or whatever that lead to pull its troops back; ergo, the Americans lost the Vietnam War.
Socraticdeathwish
Posts: 41
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11/26/2015 9:29:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Haha, nice troll OP. When someone talks about "personal opinions"in history, or anything for that matter, I turn off.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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11/26/2015 9:33:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:23:35 AM, harrytruman wrote:
So I decided to do some research and I found out that the total death toll in Vietnam was 2,450,000, wow, I also found out that the Jewish holocaust killed 1,200,000 people, so the Vietnam War killed more than double what the Jewish holocaust did.
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Total Holocaust deaths: 15,000,000
Total Jewish Holocaust deaths: 6,000,000
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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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11/26/2015 9:38:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 4:24:42 PM, XLAV wrote:
It annoys me that some American's don't consider The Vietnam War a 'lose' for them.

In the end we did lose. However, it wasn't initially that way. You see, the U.S. managed to weaken the Vietcong so much that they were forced to the negotiating table. A peace treaty was signed. Afterwards the U.S. withdrew its forces from Vietnam. Then, the Vietcong and the North resumed its offensive, probably in violation of the treaty, and the U.S. refused to return to Vietnam. Thus, it was conquered. What's regrettable is the mindset people have years later that "we couldn't have won Vietnam". Americans have forgotten what actually happened...
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Socraticdeathwish
Posts: 41
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11/26/2015 9:44:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It wasn"t a case of losing so much as it was a case of not winning and then giving up. If Americans had the political will, they could have kept fighting indefinitely, but fortunately for the world, they didn"t.
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/26/2015 9:46:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Total number of deaths due to organized killings from the Nazis is between 30 million and 35 million. I usually just say 35 million.
XLAV
Posts: 13,715
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11/27/2015 10:06:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 9:38:36 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2015 4:24:42 PM, XLAV wrote:
It annoys me that some American's don't consider The Vietnam War a 'lose' for them.

In the end we did lose. However, it wasn't initially that way. You see, the U.S. managed to weaken the Vietcong so much that they were forced to the negotiating table. A peace treaty was signed. Afterwards the U.S. withdrew its forces from Vietnam. Then, the Vietcong and the North resumed its offensive, probably in violation of the treaty, and the U.S. refused to return to Vietnam. Thus, it was conquered. What's regrettable is the mindset people have years later that "we couldn't have won Vietnam". Americans have forgotten what actually happened...
I agree that you niggas could have won the Vietnam war if America continued fighting.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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11/27/2015 2:01:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/27/2015 10:06:00 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 11/26/2015 9:38:36 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2015 4:24:42 PM, XLAV wrote:
It annoys me that some American's don't consider The Vietnam War a 'lose' for them.

In the end we did lose. However, it wasn't initially that way. You see, the U.S. managed to weaken the Vietcong so much that they were forced to the negotiating table. A peace treaty was signed. Afterwards the U.S. withdrew its forces from Vietnam. Then, the Vietcong and the North resumed its offensive, probably in violation of the treaty, and the U.S. refused to return to Vietnam. Thus, it was conquered. What's regrettable is the mindset people have years later that "we couldn't have won Vietnam". Americans have forgotten what actually happened...
I agree that you niggas could have won the Vietnam war if America continued fighting.

Yes, but to win those wars (or at least not lose) they have to be willing to potentially return to a country even shortly after leaving after many long years have been invested into that conflict. Americans have the mindset that they're only willing to fight for a few years and then they want all their troops back and to never have to go back again.
By this point terrorists know how Americans tend to act when fighting counterinsurgencies and they are able to exploit this effectively (i.e. just survive until the U.S. gets tired and the country's yours for the taking).
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
JernHenrik
Posts: 65
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11/29/2015 4:43:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/27/2015 2:01:32 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/27/2015 10:06:00 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 11/26/2015 9:38:36 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2015 4:24:42 PM, XLAV wrote:
It annoys me that some American's don't consider The Vietnam War a 'lose' for them.

In the end we did lose. However, it wasn't initially that way. You see, the U.S. managed to weaken the Vietcong so much that they were forced to the negotiating table. A peace treaty was signed. Afterwards the U.S. withdrew its forces from Vietnam. Then, the Vietcong and the North resumed its offensive, probably in violation of the treaty, and the U.S. refused to return to Vietnam. Thus, it was conquered. What's regrettable is the mindset people have years later that "we couldn't have won Vietnam". Americans have forgotten what actually happened...
I agree that you niggas could have won the Vietnam war if America continued fighting.

Yes, but to win those wars (or at least not lose) they have to be willing to potentially return to a country even shortly after leaving after many long years have been invested into that conflict. Americans have the mindset that they're only willing to fight for a few years and then they want all their troops back and to never have to go back again.
By this point terrorists know how Americans tend to act when fighting counterinsurgencies and they are able to exploit this effectively (i.e. just survive until the U.S. gets tired and the country's yours for the taking).

Is it true that the American soldiers used torture against Vietcong prisoners of war?
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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11/29/2015 4:50:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/29/2015 4:43:34 AM, JernHenrik wrote:
At 11/27/2015 2:01:32 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/27/2015 10:06:00 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 11/26/2015 9:38:36 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/20/2015 4:24:42 PM, XLAV wrote:
It annoys me that some American's don't consider The Vietnam War a 'lose' for them.

In the end we did lose. However, it wasn't initially that way. You see, the U.S. managed to weaken the Vietcong so much that they were forced to the negotiating table. A peace treaty was signed. Afterwards the U.S. withdrew its forces from Vietnam. Then, the Vietcong and the North resumed its offensive, probably in violation of the treaty, and the U.S. refused to return to Vietnam. Thus, it was conquered. What's regrettable is the mindset people have years later that "we couldn't have won Vietnam". Americans have forgotten what actually happened...
I agree that you niggas could have won the Vietnam war if America continued fighting.

Yes, but to win those wars (or at least not lose) they have to be willing to potentially return to a country even shortly after leaving after many long years have been invested into that conflict. Americans have the mindset that they're only willing to fight for a few years and then they want all their troops back and to never have to go back again.
By this point terrorists know how Americans tend to act when fighting counterinsurgencies and they are able to exploit this effectively (i.e. just survive until the U.S. gets tired and the country's yours for the taking).

Is it true that the American soldiers used torture against Vietcong prisoners of war?

It probably happened to some extent, and I know for a fact that the South Vietnamese Government did it often.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid