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Iraqi Insurgency (2003-2011) Explained

Vox_Veritas
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12/29/2015 9:58:20 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Iraq is a nation which consists mainly of Shi'ites, comprising a good 2/3rds of Iraq's population. It is one of few Muslim-majority nations where Shi'ites are the majority and not the minority.
Despite this, during the several decade long period of Ba'athist rule in Iraq (beginning in 1968 and ending in 2003) the Sunnis had special privilege. Most positions of power were filled by Sunnis and Saddam Hussein himself was a Sunni. Like in Apartheid-era South Africa the minority enjoyed special privileges while the majority was treated like poop.
After Iraq was liberat...er, I mean, invaded for the oil in an imperialist crusade against Muslims everywhere, actual democratic elections took place in the country for the first time in decades, meaning that the Sunnis obviously were no longer the most represented voice in the Iraqi government. Also, many Ba'athists were fired from their public sector jobs (I.e. schoolteachers, bureaucrats, politicians, law enforcement officers, soldiers, etc). This put countless Sunnis out of work.
The Post-Invasion Sunni complaints against the new order were as following:
1. We no longer enjoy special privilege; rather, we're now going to be treated like the minority that we are.
2. We've been fired from our jobs and denied many benefits due to our involvement with the Ba'athist Party (ironically, during the Ba'athist era people joined the party for the specific purpose of attaining better jobs).
3. Iraq has become chaotic ever since the Coalition Provisional Authority took power; Iraq was much more stable back in the day when the Ba'athists ruled with an iron fist.
So, the Sunni/Ba'athist bloc decided to revolt against the new coalition-established Government and U.S. military occupation and re-establish the former Ba'athist pro-Sunni order.

And that's why post-invasion Iraq turned out like it did; de-Ba'athification and the loss of Sunni privilege played a very large role in it.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,542
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1/1/2016 1:50:30 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 9:58:20 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
And that's why post-invasion Iraq turned out like it did; de-Ba'athification and the loss of Sunni privilege played a very large role in it.

So, really, the selfishness of people
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,068
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1/1/2016 3:30:56 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 1:50:30 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 12/29/2015 9:58:20 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
And that's why post-invasion Iraq turned out like it did; de-Ba'athification and the loss of Sunni privilege played a very large role in it.

So, really, the selfishness of people

One important thing to note is that if we didn't undergo a policy of de-ba'athification the insurgency may have never happened. It's magical thinking to claim that a large anti-American insurgency *must* happen if we occupy another country for any reason.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,542
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1/1/2016 3:35:03 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 3:30:56 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/1/2016 1:50:30 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 12/29/2015 9:58:20 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
And that's why post-invasion Iraq turned out like it did; de-Ba'athification and the loss of Sunni privilege played a very large role in it.

So, really, the selfishness of people

One important thing to note is that if we didn't undergo a policy of de-ba'athification the insurgency may have never happened. It's magical thinking to claim that a large anti-American insurgency *must* happen if we occupy another country for any reason.

Hmmm. So really, Iraq was anti-American anyway, but Mr. Leftist likes to say the only reason it is now is because we topple the former regime, which they fail to recognize was anti-America anyway.

Way to poke holes in liberal reasoning.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,068
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1/1/2016 3:41:49 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Ironically, the situation in Syria is the exact opposite. Syria is Sunni-majority and the Ba'athists in Syria are granting special privileges to the Shia minority, Assad being a Shi'ite.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
The-Voice-of-Truth
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1/1/2016 3:54:00 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 3:41:49 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Ironically, the situation in Syria is the exact opposite. Syria is Sunni-majority and the Ba'athists in Syria are granting special privileges to the Shia minority, Assad being a Shi'ite.

Quite. Oh, how this world operates....
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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2/15/2016 7:03:08 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 1/1/2016 3:30:56 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/1/2016 1:50:30 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 12/29/2015 9:58:20 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
And that's why post-invasion Iraq turned out like it did; de-Ba'athification and the loss of Sunni privilege played a very large role in it.

So, really, the selfishness of people

One important thing to note is that if we didn't undergo a policy of de-ba'athification the insurgency may have never happened. It's magical thinking to claim that a large anti-American insurgency *must* happen if we occupy another country for any reason.

Yeah. Ba'athists were also outright banned from holding political positions in many cases. The invasion would have went much more smoothly if we didn't give them a stupid parliamentary system, and rather gave them a more US-style government with a substantial division of powers, and representative democracy which took into account and balanced the conflicting factions. Give Kurds, Sunnis, and Shi'a similar representations, maybe a senate which consists of equal representatives from each faction, and regional governance which is largely decentralized. Then have a population-based house so that people couldn't cry about democracy too much. When it came to judges, allow each of the three 'states' to control its own internal nominations, and rotate appointments to the Supreme Court (final court of appeal) between the various district courts (similar informal power-sharing systems worked well in Arabia). There's a government which would have been stable and strong. Also, ban them from having their own military for a bit, like we did for Japan, and once they are set up establish a Swiss-style central militia with strong defense treaties and permanent military bases. During the peace-keeping interim, allow the Supreme Court to invoke US forces if anyone oversteps their roles. Make the popularly-elected president have similar veto powers to ours, with a similar override based on the 'Senate' vote, so that if a Shi'a president went too veto-happy the Sunnis and Kurds could teem up and override him. The democratic 'House' could propose bills, but the 'Senate' couldn't, and they would essentially pass them back and forth until a consensus was reached and the Senate passed it on to the president. All appointments to ministries which the President made would need to be ratified by the Senate.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -