Total Posts:48|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Was there really a bad guy in WW1?

tajshar2k
Posts: 2,384
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 2:52:40 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Depends on how you view it. From my side, Germany and Austria Hungary were the bad guys, but from their side, they were good.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,384
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 2:53:27 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:52:40 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Depends on how you view it. From my side, Germany and Austria Hungary were the bad guys, but from their side, they were good.

Even from your side, why were they bad? I can't really think of a reason. It's pretty obvious from WW2, but why WW1?
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,571
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,384
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 2:57:36 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

In school, we were taught the M-A-I-N reasons for World War 1

M=Militarism
I=Imperialism
A=Alliances
N=Nationalism

I think all of them played a factor, but what really caused the entire world to get involved was Alliances.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 2:58:31 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:53:27 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:52:40 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Depends on how you view it. From my side, Germany and Austria Hungary were the bad guys, but from their side, they were good.

Even from your side, why were they bad? I can't really think of a reason. It's pretty obvious from WW2, but why WW1?

Germany was just looking to cause conflict. The whole point of Kaiser Wilhelm guaranteeing Austria support was that they would not be seen as an aggressor, but a countering force. England and France were perfectly peaceful until Germany decided to ramp up military production and cause political trouble.

Then again, alienating the Germans wasn't a good action on the side of the French and British either.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,571
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 2:58:55 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:57:36 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

In school, we were taught the M-A-I-N reasons for World War 1

M=Militarism
I=Imperialism
A=Alliances
N=Nationalism

I think all of them played a factor, but what really caused the entire world to get involved was Alliances.

I learned that last year. That is the conclusion I drew as well, then Imperialism, Nationalism, and Militarism.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,571
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:00:24 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Well, yeah, when you really think about it. Thanks to him, the world saw unprecedented bloodshed.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,384
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:00:41 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:58:31 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:53:27 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:52:40 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Depends on how you view it. From my side, Germany and Austria Hungary were the bad guys, but from their side, they were good.

Even from your side, why were they bad? I can't really think of a reason. It's pretty obvious from WW2, but why WW1?

Germany was just looking to cause conflict. The whole point of Kaiser Wilhelm guaranteeing Austria support was that they would not be seen as an aggressor, but a countering force. England and France were perfectly peaceful until Germany decided to ramp up military production and cause political trouble.

While I agree, that would sour relations and look like an initiation of war, the Germans were simply trying to rival the British Navy. I don't think it would have caused a World War.

Then again, alienating the Germans wasn't a good action on the side of the French and British either.

True
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:01:21 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 3:00:24 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Well, yeah, when you really think about it. Thanks to him, the world saw unprecedented bloodshed.

It also saw quite a lot of technological advancement. I'm sorry to say, but the reason why governments especially want so much technological advancement is not for the good of people but for the good of their military.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,384
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:02:33 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

+1 He's my least favorite historical figure.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,571
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:02:57 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 3:01:21 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 3:00:24 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Well, yeah, when you really think about it. Thanks to him, the world saw unprecedented bloodshed.

It also saw quite a lot of technological advancement. I'm sorry to say, but the reason why governments especially want so much technological advancement is not for the good of people but for the good of their military.

Yep. That and the Industrial Revolution. It is also people just wanting to make a couple of (billion) dollars that leads to such advancement.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:04:36 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 3:02:33 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

+1 He's my least favorite historical figure.

Karl Marx was worse, although murdering a husband and wife that had nothing to do with your woes isn't a good action either.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:05:21 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 3:02:57 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 3:01:21 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 3:00:24 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Well, yeah, when you really think about it. Thanks to him, the world saw unprecedented bloodshed.

It also saw quite a lot of technological advancement. I'm sorry to say, but the reason why governments especially want so much technological advancement is not for the good of people but for the good of their military.

Yep. That and the Industrial Revolution. It is also people just wanting to make a couple of (billion) dollars that leads to such advancement.

All incentive. Remove incentive from the equation and you get Socialism and an eventual failure. Examine Cuba, USSR, and Scandinavia in a couple decades.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,384
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:06:38 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 3:04:36 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 3:02:33 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

+1 He's my least favorite historical figure.

Karl Marx was worse, although murdering a husband and wife that had nothing to do with your woes isn't a good action either.

Interesting, when you type karl marx on google, it says he was influenced by Adam Smith...
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:07:40 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 3:06:38 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/4/2016 3:04:36 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 3:02:33 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

+1 He's my least favorite historical figure.

Karl Marx was worse, although murdering a husband and wife that had nothing to do with your woes isn't a good action either.

Interesting, when you type karl marx on google, it says he was influenced by Adam Smith...

Of course he was. Adam Smith invented modern economics with his great work "The Wealth of Nations". Das Kapital was practically a response to this.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
walker_harris3
Posts: 273
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:09:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 3:00:24 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Well, yeah, when you really think about it. Thanks to him, the world saw unprecedented bloodshed.

And the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Seriously f*ck this guy.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,571
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:10:44 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 3:09:04 AM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 3:00:24 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Well, yeah, when you really think about it. Thanks to him, the world saw unprecedented bloodshed.

And the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Seriously f*ck this guy.

Well, that has been going on for 1000's of years. But yeah, what you said, lol.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,571
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:14:12 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 3:05:21 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 3:02:57 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 3:01:21 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 3:00:24 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Well, yeah, when you really think about it. Thanks to him, the world saw unprecedented bloodshed.

It also saw quite a lot of technological advancement. I'm sorry to say, but the reason why governments especially want so much technological advancement is not for the good of people but for the good of their military.

Yep. That and the Industrial Revolution. It is also people just wanting to make a couple of (billion) dollars that leads to such advancement.

All incentive. Remove incentive from the equation and you get Socialism and an eventual failure. Examine Cuba, USSR, and Scandinavia in a couple decades.

Yeah. Incentive is a good thing, even if governments use it to their benefit. That is what allows for free markets.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
walker_harris3
Posts: 273
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 3:18:09 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 3:10:44 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 3:09:04 AM, walker_harris3 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 3:00:24 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Well, yeah, when you really think about it. Thanks to him, the world saw unprecedented bloodshed.

And the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Seriously f*ck this guy.

Well, that has been going on for 1000's of years. But yeah, what you said, lol.

Up until the end of WW1, it had been the Arab-Ottoman conflict for a couple hundred years. But then Britain just had to promise the Arabs sovereignty in return for help versus the Ottomans, and then Britain just had to stab them in the back and split the middle east with France and go back on their promise. And then Britain just had to promise the Jews a homeland in Palestine at the same time.
What a cluster****
famousdebater
Posts: 3,943
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/4/2016 11:56:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Yeah that's prettying obvious considering his actions sparked the world war.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/5/2016 12:00:18 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 11:56:32 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Yeah that's prettying obvious considering his actions sparked the world war.

His actions sparked an Austrian response. Austria sparked the World War. They didn't have to berate Serbia to the point of submission against their Constitution.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
famousdebater
Posts: 3,943
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/5/2016 12:08:21 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/5/2016 12:00:18 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 11:56:32 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Yeah that's prettying obvious considering his actions sparked the world war.

His actions sparked an Austrian response. Austria sparked the World War. They didn't have to berate Serbia to the point of submission against their Constitution.

But that's basically sparking the war isn't it. He sparked the Austrian response which almost instantly sparked the war. In fact, the Austrian response is arguably part of the war and therefore the actions of Princip directly sparked the war.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/5/2016 12:10:43 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/5/2016 12:08:21 AM, famousdebater wrote:
At 2/5/2016 12:00:18 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 11:56:32 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Yeah that's prettying obvious considering his actions sparked the world war.

His actions sparked an Austrian response. Austria sparked the World War. They didn't have to berate Serbia to the point of submission against their Constitution.

But that's basically sparking the war isn't it. He sparked the Austrian response which almost instantly sparked the war. In fact, the Austrian response is arguably part of the war and therefore the actions of Princip directly sparked the war.

It lead to events that sparked the war, so it was an indirect action. If the Arch Duke had not been assassinated, it would have been highly unlikely for the war to start at the time that it did. Don't forget that the Kaiser's goal was to declare war at some point, he just needed a good reason.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
famousdebater
Posts: 3,943
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/5/2016 12:19:17 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/5/2016 12:10:43 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/5/2016 12:08:21 AM, famousdebater wrote:
At 2/5/2016 12:00:18 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 11:56:32 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Yeah that's prettying obvious considering his actions sparked the world war.

His actions sparked an Austrian response. Austria sparked the World War. They didn't have to berate Serbia to the point of submission against their Constitution.

But that's basically sparking the war isn't it. He sparked the Austrian response which almost instantly sparked the war. In fact, the Austrian response is arguably part of the war and therefore the actions of Princip directly sparked the war.

It lead to events that sparked the war, so it was an indirect action. If the Arch Duke had not been assassinated, it would have been highly unlikely for the war to start at the time that it did. Don't forget that the Kaiser's goal was to declare war at some point, he just needed a good reason.

Yes but how many good reasons do you think would come along that would give the Kaiser an excuse to start a world war? This was probably the only opportunity they would've got.

The assassination of Franz Ferdinand was the spark to the war not the spark to the spark of the war. The archduke was murdered, shortly after there was an Austrian response - the start of the war.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/5/2016 12:23:42 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/5/2016 12:19:17 AM, famousdebater wrote:
At 2/5/2016 12:10:43 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/5/2016 12:08:21 AM, famousdebater wrote:
At 2/5/2016 12:00:18 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 11:56:32 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:59:12 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

The bad guy was the Serbian assassin, Gavrilo Princip. He is the one that lead the chain event that started the war.

Yeah that's prettying obvious considering his actions sparked the world war.

His actions sparked an Austrian response. Austria sparked the World War. They didn't have to berate Serbia to the point of submission against their Constitution.

But that's basically sparking the war isn't it. He sparked the Austrian response which almost instantly sparked the war. In fact, the Austrian response is arguably part of the war and therefore the actions of Princip directly sparked the war.

It lead to events that sparked the war, so it was an indirect action. If the Arch Duke had not been assassinated, it would have been highly unlikely for the war to start at the time that it did. Don't forget that the Kaiser's goal was to declare war at some point, he just needed a good reason.

Yes but how many good reasons do you think would come along that would give the Kaiser an excuse to start a world war? This was probably the only opportunity they would've got.

The assassination of Franz Ferdinand was the spark to the war not the spark to the spark of the war. The archduke was murdered, shortly after there was an Austrian response - the start of the war.

The Austrian response was basically stating a list of grievances that Serbia had to comply with. When Serbia denied a couple of them, the foreign minister urged a declaration of war.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,683
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 11:45:24 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:57:36 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:55:38 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

Found this: https://www.youtube.com... . It's a neat spin on the events prior to the war and such.

Honestly, I think Germany doesn't deserve the attention it gets for starting this Great War. As you even said, Germany was holding true to an alliance with Austria-Hungary. IF there was a "bad guy," I would say either Austria-Hungary or the Russians.

In school, we were taught the M-A-I-N reasons for World War 1

M=Militarism
I=Imperialism
A=Alliances
N=Nationalism

I think all of them played a factor, but what really caused the entire world to get involved was Alliances.

That's literally the exact same way my school did it (minus the acronym)
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
Reformist
Posts: 679
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/9/2016 1:48:31 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

I think the Nazi's weren't bad they were just really really misguided through religion and unfortunate racial hatred. However there approach to government was extremely revolutionary
DDO History Revival Officer
Fuher of the Reich

"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

To be a feminist or to be smart that is the question
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,384
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/9/2016 1:49:17 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 1:48:31 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 2/4/2016 2:43:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I think most can agree with their moral beliefs, that the Nazis's were the bad guys, since they were mass-murdering those who they believed were inferior. Obviously it made sense that the Allies needed to stop them, or the whole world would lose their basic right to live.

However World War 1 wasn't like that. Germany did exactly what England, France and Russia did. They simply fought a war against each other. Germany only really went to war because of it's alliance to Austria-Hungary, so was their really a bad guy?

I would go as far as blaming the Russians for initiating a "World War", because they were the ones who kind of started the domino effect which got the other countries involved. Germany got the blame, since they lost the war. The war would have strictly been a war between Serbia and Austria-Hungary since it only really concerned the two nations.

Thoughts?

I think the Nazi's weren't bad they were just really really misguided through religion and unfortunate racial hatred. However there approach to government was extremely revolutionary

No offense, but you really scare me.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k