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If Japan had not invaded Machuria

bballcrook21
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2/7/2016 4:42:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
What I find most interesting is that during the Communist revolution and uprisings in China, Japan was the exact reason as to why this occurred and was able to gain so much ground.

When Mao Zedong joined the rebellion and formed these Communist cults to fight the Kuomintang, and then later to ally itself with it to repel the Japanese, and then against start fighting the KMT, this all was a by-product of Japanese invasion. If Japan had kept it's Imperialism firmly set on the Islands and nations that were south of China, then maybe the KMT could have repelled the Communist revolution, and it would have taken them a bit more to gain ground, or could have been destroyed compeletely. The Soviet Union currently did not have the proper funds or ability to finance a full scale Communist revolution in China as they were too busy devoting all manpower to the War in Europe against the Germans and later the Eastern European nations.

At one point the KMT pushed the Communist back during what was called "The Long March" and the Communists went into hiding. When Japan invaded Manchuria and other Chinese lands, the KMT was forced to divert all of its troops to the north, versus the South in which they were fighting the Communists. This allowed for the Communists to gain numbers, and also it became easier to rebel as most of the Chinese military was destroyed by the Japanese.

All this distrust of government by the Chinese people, heavy inflation and lack of proper goods to satisfy consumer demand, as well as the governments own inability to protect the nation lead to a Communist revolution that potentially could have been stopped, had the Japanese not invaded.

If Japan had instead invaded the Soviet Union, then the Nazis most likely would have won. The USSR could not have held out against a strong military such as Japan on its East and a strong military such as German on its West, certainly not when the East was the majority of the Russian agricultural and lumber district, as well as where most of their work camps were stationed.

I wanted to write this because I like European history, and being the head of the revival effort I am going to ask people to reply to this with their own thoughts/interpretations.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,560
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2/7/2016 5:59:05 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 4:42:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
What I find most interesting is that during the Communist revolution and uprisings in China, Japan was the exact reason as to why this occurred and was able to gain so much ground.

When Mao Zedong joined the rebellion and formed these Communist cults to fight the Kuomintang, and then later to ally itself with it to repel the Japanese, and then against start fighting the KMT, this all was a by-product of Japanese invasion. If Japan had kept it's Imperialism firmly set on the Islands and nations that were south of China, then maybe the KMT could have repelled the Communist revolution, and it would have taken them a bit more to gain ground, or could have been destroyed compeletely. The Soviet Union currently did not have the proper funds or ability to finance a full scale Communist revolution in China as they were too busy devoting all manpower to the War in Europe against the Germans and later the Eastern European nations.

At one point the KMT pushed the Communist back during what was called "The Long March" and the Communists went into hiding. When Japan invaded Manchuria and other Chinese lands, the KMT was forced to divert all of its troops to the north, versus the South in which they were fighting the Communists. This allowed for the Communists to gain numbers, and also it became easier to rebel as most of the Chinese military was destroyed by the Japanese.

All this distrust of government by the Chinese people, heavy inflation and lack of proper goods to satisfy consumer demand, as well as the governments own inability to protect the nation lead to a Communist revolution that potentially could have been stopped, had the Japanese not invaded.

If Japan had instead invaded the Soviet Union, then the Nazis most likely would have won. The USSR could not have held out against a strong military such as Japan on its East and a strong military such as German on its West, certainly not when the East was the majority of the Russian agricultural and lumber district, as well as where most of their work camps were stationed.

I wanted to write this because I like European history, and being the head of the revival effort I am going to ask people to reply to this with their own thoughts/interpretations.

This really seems to be a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation. Japan invades China : communism abounds. Japan invades USSR: Nazis win. If Japan had not been so Imperialistic, imagine what different kind of problems our world would have. The Nazis still wouldn't have won, and Communism most likely wouldn't have come to prominence in China. I say there would have probably been a ground war with the Soviets after the Nazis were defeated, and the majority of Europe would have most likely been overrun. I could see it being a UK-America alliance versus the Soviet mega-continent.

I digress. Really, Japan was the reason for all of our problems for a few decades, and would have been no matter what they did.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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2/7/2016 6:01:09 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 5:59:05 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/7/2016 4:42:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
What I find most interesting is that during the Communist revolution and uprisings in China, Japan was the exact reason as to why this occurred and was able to gain so much ground.

When Mao Zedong joined the rebellion and formed these Communist cults to fight the Kuomintang, and then later to ally itself with it to repel the Japanese, and then against start fighting the KMT, this all was a by-product of Japanese invasion. If Japan had kept it's Imperialism firmly set on the Islands and nations that were south of China, then maybe the KMT could have repelled the Communist revolution, and it would have taken them a bit more to gain ground, or could have been destroyed compeletely. The Soviet Union currently did not have the proper funds or ability to finance a full scale Communist revolution in China as they were too busy devoting all manpower to the War in Europe against the Germans and later the Eastern European nations.

At one point the KMT pushed the Communist back during what was called "The Long March" and the Communists went into hiding. When Japan invaded Manchuria and other Chinese lands, the KMT was forced to divert all of its troops to the north, versus the South in which they were fighting the Communists. This allowed for the Communists to gain numbers, and also it became easier to rebel as most of the Chinese military was destroyed by the Japanese.

All this distrust of government by the Chinese people, heavy inflation and lack of proper goods to satisfy consumer demand, as well as the governments own inability to protect the nation lead to a Communist revolution that potentially could have been stopped, had the Japanese not invaded.

If Japan had instead invaded the Soviet Union, then the Nazis most likely would have won. The USSR could not have held out against a strong military such as Japan on its East and a strong military such as German on its West, certainly not when the East was the majority of the Russian agricultural and lumber district, as well as where most of their work camps were stationed.

I wanted to write this because I like European history, and being the head of the revival effort I am going to ask people to reply to this with their own thoughts/interpretations.

This really seems to be a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation. Japan invades China : communism abounds. Japan invades USSR: Nazis win. If Japan had not been so Imperialistic, imagine what different kind of problems our world would have. The Nazis still wouldn't have won, and Communism most likely wouldn't have come to prominence in China. I say there would have probably been a ground war with the Soviets after the Nazis were defeated, and the majority of Europe would have most likely been overrun. I could see it being a UK-America alliance versus the Soviet mega-continent.

I digress. Really, Japan was the reason for all of our problems for a few decades, and would have been no matter what they did.

If Japan had not invaded Pearl Harbor, and if Japan was not Imperialistic to begin with, the demise of the German 3rd Reich would have come quicker than before. We used the Atomic bomb because Japan was a bigger threat than the Germans, as they were wrapped up in their own fight. One of the largest modern economies would have been a nuclear wasteland had Japan not attacked us.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,560
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2/7/2016 6:03:45 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 6:01:09 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/7/2016 5:59:05 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/7/2016 4:42:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
What I find most interesting is that during the Communist revolution and uprisings in China, Japan was the exact reason as to why this occurred and was able to gain so much ground.

When Mao Zedong joined the rebellion and formed these Communist cults to fight the Kuomintang, and then later to ally itself with it to repel the Japanese, and then against start fighting the KMT, this all was a by-product of Japanese invasion. If Japan had kept it's Imperialism firmly set on the Islands and nations that were south of China, then maybe the KMT could have repelled the Communist revolution, and it would have taken them a bit more to gain ground, or could have been destroyed compeletely. The Soviet Union currently did not have the proper funds or ability to finance a full scale Communist revolution in China as they were too busy devoting all manpower to the War in Europe against the Germans and later the Eastern European nations.

At one point the KMT pushed the Communist back during what was called "The Long March" and the Communists went into hiding. When Japan invaded Manchuria and other Chinese lands, the KMT was forced to divert all of its troops to the north, versus the South in which they were fighting the Communists. This allowed for the Communists to gain numbers, and also it became easier to rebel as most of the Chinese military was destroyed by the Japanese.

All this distrust of government by the Chinese people, heavy inflation and lack of proper goods to satisfy consumer demand, as well as the governments own inability to protect the nation lead to a Communist revolution that potentially could have been stopped, had the Japanese not invaded.

If Japan had instead invaded the Soviet Union, then the Nazis most likely would have won. The USSR could not have held out against a strong military such as Japan on its East and a strong military such as German on its West, certainly not when the East was the majority of the Russian agricultural and lumber district, as well as where most of their work camps were stationed.

I wanted to write this because I like European history, and being the head of the revival effort I am going to ask people to reply to this with their own thoughts/interpretations.

This really seems to be a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation. Japan invades China : communism abounds. Japan invades USSR: Nazis win. If Japan had not been so Imperialistic, imagine what different kind of problems our world would have. The Nazis still wouldn't have won, and Communism most likely wouldn't have come to prominence in China. I say there would have probably been a ground war with the Soviets after the Nazis were defeated, and the majority of Europe would have most likely been overrun. I could see it being a UK-America alliance versus the Soviet mega-continent.

I digress. Really, Japan was the reason for all of our problems for a few decades, and would have been no matter what they did.

If Japan had not invaded Pearl Harbor, and if Japan was not Imperialistic to begin with, the demise of the German 3rd Reich would have come quicker than before. We used the Atomic bomb because Japan was a bigger threat than the Germans, as they were wrapped up in their own fight. One of the largest modern economies would have been a nuclear wasteland had Japan not attacked us.

True. And this would have practically paved the way for the USSR to the rest of Europe, that is, if we didn't nuke them as well.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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2/7/2016 6:05:24 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 6:03:45 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/7/2016 6:01:09 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/7/2016 5:59:05 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/7/2016 4:42:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
What I find most interesting is that during the Communist revolution and uprisings in China, Japan was the exact reason as to why this occurred and was able to gain so much ground.

When Mao Zedong joined the rebellion and formed these Communist cults to fight the Kuomintang, and then later to ally itself with it to repel the Japanese, and then against start fighting the KMT, this all was a by-product of Japanese invasion. If Japan had kept it's Imperialism firmly set on the Islands and nations that were south of China, then maybe the KMT could have repelled the Communist revolution, and it would have taken them a bit more to gain ground, or could have been destroyed compeletely. The Soviet Union currently did not have the proper funds or ability to finance a full scale Communist revolution in China as they were too busy devoting all manpower to the War in Europe against the Germans and later the Eastern European nations.

At one point the KMT pushed the Communist back during what was called "The Long March" and the Communists went into hiding. When Japan invaded Manchuria and other Chinese lands, the KMT was forced to divert all of its troops to the north, versus the South in which they were fighting the Communists. This allowed for the Communists to gain numbers, and also it became easier to rebel as most of the Chinese military was destroyed by the Japanese.

All this distrust of government by the Chinese people, heavy inflation and lack of proper goods to satisfy consumer demand, as well as the governments own inability to protect the nation lead to a Communist revolution that potentially could have been stopped, had the Japanese not invaded.

If Japan had instead invaded the Soviet Union, then the Nazis most likely would have won. The USSR could not have held out against a strong military such as Japan on its East and a strong military such as German on its West, certainly not when the East was the majority of the Russian agricultural and lumber district, as well as where most of their work camps were stationed.

I wanted to write this because I like European history, and being the head of the revival effort I am going to ask people to reply to this with their own thoughts/interpretations.

This really seems to be a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation. Japan invades China : communism abounds. Japan invades USSR: Nazis win. If Japan had not been so Imperialistic, imagine what different kind of problems our world would have. The Nazis still wouldn't have won, and Communism most likely wouldn't have come to prominence in China. I say there would have probably been a ground war with the Soviets after the Nazis were defeated, and the majority of Europe would have most likely been overrun. I could see it being a UK-America alliance versus the Soviet mega-continent.

I digress. Really, Japan was the reason for all of our problems for a few decades, and would have been no matter what they did.

If Japan had not invaded Pearl Harbor, and if Japan was not Imperialistic to begin with, the demise of the German 3rd Reich would have come quicker than before. We used the Atomic bomb because Japan was a bigger threat than the Germans, as they were wrapped up in their own fight. One of the largest modern economies would have been a nuclear wasteland had Japan not attacked us.

True. And this would have practically paved the way for the USSR to the rest of Europe, that is, if we didn't nuke them as well.

If Nazi Germany fell quicker and we didn't use our nukes, then most likely we would have gone with Operation Unthinkable that Churchill devised and utterly destroyed the Russians. This would've been the best scenario as we wouldn't know of all the perils of the despotic Soviet regime. However, then I would have less real world examples of the failures of Communism, and then I wouldn't be able to pwn retarded Marxists in discussions.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,560
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2/7/2016 6:09:50 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 6:05:24 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/7/2016 6:03:45 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/7/2016 6:01:09 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/7/2016 5:59:05 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/7/2016 4:42:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
What I find most interesting is that during the Communist revolution and uprisings in China, Japan was the exact reason as to why this occurred and was able to gain so much ground.

When Mao Zedong joined the rebellion and formed these Communist cults to fight the Kuomintang, and then later to ally itself with it to repel the Japanese, and then against start fighting the KMT, this all was a by-product of Japanese invasion. If Japan had kept it's Imperialism firmly set on the Islands and nations that were south of China, then maybe the KMT could have repelled the Communist revolution, and it would have taken them a bit more to gain ground, or could have been destroyed compeletely. The Soviet Union currently did not have the proper funds or ability to finance a full scale Communist revolution in China as they were too busy devoting all manpower to the War in Europe against the Germans and later the Eastern European nations.

At one point the KMT pushed the Communist back during what was called "The Long March" and the Communists went into hiding. When Japan invaded Manchuria and other Chinese lands, the KMT was forced to divert all of its troops to the north, versus the South in which they were fighting the Communists. This allowed for the Communists to gain numbers, and also it became easier to rebel as most of the Chinese military was destroyed by the Japanese.

All this distrust of government by the Chinese people, heavy inflation and lack of proper goods to satisfy consumer demand, as well as the governments own inability to protect the nation lead to a Communist revolution that potentially could have been stopped, had the Japanese not invaded.

If Japan had instead invaded the Soviet Union, then the Nazis most likely would have won. The USSR could not have held out against a strong military such as Japan on its East and a strong military such as German on its West, certainly not when the East was the majority of the Russian agricultural and lumber district, as well as where most of their work camps were stationed.

I wanted to write this because I like European history, and being the head of the revival effort I am going to ask people to reply to this with their own thoughts/interpretations.

This really seems to be a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation. Japan invades China : communism abounds. Japan invades USSR: Nazis win. If Japan had not been so Imperialistic, imagine what different kind of problems our world would have. The Nazis still wouldn't have won, and Communism most likely wouldn't have come to prominence in China. I say there would have probably been a ground war with the Soviets after the Nazis were defeated, and the majority of Europe would have most likely been overrun. I could see it being a UK-America alliance versus the Soviet mega-continent.

I digress. Really, Japan was the reason for all of our problems for a few decades, and would have been no matter what they did.

If Japan had not invaded Pearl Harbor, and if Japan was not Imperialistic to begin with, the demise of the German 3rd Reich would have come quicker than before. We used the Atomic bomb because Japan was a bigger threat than the Germans, as they were wrapped up in their own fight. One of the largest modern economies would have been a nuclear wasteland had Japan not attacked us.

True. And this would have practically paved the way for the USSR to the rest of Europe, that is, if we didn't nuke them as well.

If Nazi Germany fell quicker and we didn't use our nukes, then most likely we would have gone with Operation Unthinkable that Churchill devised and utterly destroyed the Russians. This would've been the best scenario as we wouldn't know of all the perils of the despotic Soviet regime. However, then I would have less real world examples of the failures of Communism, and then I wouldn't be able to pwn retarded Marxists in discussions.

That is also true, lol. You could still have used the failure of the Soviets in the war to show how Commies are weak.

But, Operation Unthinkable were to happen, and the Soviets were destroyed, then Communism would have practically ceased to exist.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
Reformist
Posts: 679
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2/11/2016 12:27:06 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/7/2016 5:59:05 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/7/2016 4:42:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
What I find most interesting is that during the Communist revolution and uprisings in China, Japan was the exact reason as to why this occurred and was able to gain so much ground.

When Mao Zedong joined the rebellion and formed these Communist cults to fight the Kuomintang, and then later to ally itself with it to repel the Japanese, and then against start fighting the KMT, this all was a by-product of Japanese invasion. If Japan had kept it's Imperialism firmly set on the Islands and nations that were south of China, then maybe the KMT could have repelled the Communist revolution, and it would have taken them a bit more to gain ground, or could have been destroyed compeletely. The Soviet Union currently did not have the proper funds or ability to finance a full scale Communist revolution in China as they were too busy devoting all manpower to the War in Europe against the Germans and later the Eastern European nations.

At one point the KMT pushed the Communist back during what was called "The Long March" and the Communists went into hiding. When Japan invaded Manchuria and other Chinese lands, the KMT was forced to divert all of its troops to the north, versus the South in which they were fighting the Communists. This allowed for the Communists to gain numbers, and also it became easier to rebel as most of the Chinese military was destroyed by the Japanese.

All this distrust of government by the Chinese people, heavy inflation and lack of proper goods to satisfy consumer demand, as well as the governments own inability to protect the nation lead to a Communist revolution that potentially could have been stopped, had the Japanese not invaded.

If Japan had instead invaded the Soviet Union, then the Nazis most likely would have won. The USSR could not have held out against a strong military such as Japan on its East and a strong military such as German on its West, certainly not when the East was the majority of the Russian agricultural and lumber district, as well as where most of their work camps were stationed.

I wanted to write this because I like European history, and being the head of the revival effort I am going to ask people to reply to this with their own thoughts/interpretations.

This really seems to be a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation. Japan invades China : communism abounds. Japan invades USSR: Nazis win. If Japan had not been so Imperialistic, imagine what different kind of problems our world would have. The Nazis still wouldn't have won, and Communism most likely wouldn't have come to prominence in China. I say there would have probably been a ground war with the Soviets after the Nazis were defeated, and the majority of Europe would have most likely been overrun. I could see it being a UK-America alliance versus the Soviet mega-continent.

I digress. Really, Japan was the reason for all of our problems for a few decades, and would have been no matter what they did.

Nazis would've won if japan invaded Manchuria.......imagine the world if that happened.
DDO History Revival Officer
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"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

To be a feminist or to be smart that is the question
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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2/12/2016 10:58:47 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/7/2016 4:42:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
What I find most interesting is that during the Communist revolution and uprisings in China, Japan was the exact reason as to why this occurred and was able to gain so much ground.

When Mao Zedong joined the rebellion and formed these Communist cults to fight the Kuomintang, and then later to ally itself with it to repel the Japanese, and then against start fighting the KMT, this all was a by-product of Japanese invasion. If Japan had kept it's Imperialism firmly set on the Islands and nations that were south of China, then maybe the KMT could have repelled the Communist revolution, and it would have taken them a bit more to gain ground, or could have been destroyed compeletely. The Soviet Union currently did not have the proper funds or ability to finance a full scale Communist revolution in China as they were too busy devoting all manpower to the War in Europe against the Germans and later the Eastern European nations.

At one point the KMT pushed the Communist back during what was called "The Long March" and the Communists went into hiding. When Japan invaded Manchuria and other Chinese lands, the KMT was forced to divert all of its troops to the north, versus the South in which they were fighting the Communists. This allowed for the Communists to gain numbers, and also it became easier to rebel as most of the Chinese military was destroyed by the Japanese.

All this distrust of government by the Chinese people, heavy inflation and lack of proper goods to satisfy consumer demand, as well as the governments own inability to protect the nation lead to a Communist revolution that potentially could have been stopped, had the Japanese not invaded.

If Japan had instead invaded the Soviet Union, then the Nazis most likely would have won. The USSR could not have held out against a strong military such as Japan on its East and a strong military such as German on its West, certainly not when the East was the majority of the Russian agricultural and lumber district, as well as where most of their work camps were stationed.

I wanted to write this because I like European history, and being the head of the revival effort I am going to ask people to reply to this with their own thoughts/interpretations.

Yes it is likely the kmt could have repelled the communists if it was not almost entirely destroyed by the japanese invasion so the communist party would likely not rule China today if that event did not occur. In 1937 when japan chose to invade china it seemed to be strategically a good decision due to the ongoing civil war in china that had weakened the kmt army and forced it to leave limited defence forces against invasion due to the fight with the communists. However in hindsight it was an error. China proved to big for the Japanese to control and the resources it provided while useful to its war effort proved costly economically. If Germany had already invaded the user in 1937 then yes Japan could have invaded the ussr rather than China. It would have been easy pickings as their would have been little if any resistance. However by the time Germany invaded the ussr Japan was too heavily involved in other conflicts to invade the ussr. It would have been interesting to see how an attack on Russia from the east would have gone but it would have been a very long supply line if the imperial Japanese army managed to link up with the Nazis in the west to attack Moscow, Stalingrad and st Petersburg.