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Was it ever possible for the Axis to win WW2

Reformist
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2/9/2016 1:46:02 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
This is an interesting topic ive been meaning to talk about

Please state how you think it would be possible the axis powers could win via different scenarios.

Also if they won wouldn't they have just started WW3 with themselves?
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tajshar2k
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2/9/2016 1:52:33 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 1:46:02 AM, Reformist wrote:
This is an interesting topic ive been meaning to talk about

Please state how you think it would be possible the axis powers could win via different scenarios.

Also if they won wouldn't they have just started WW3 with themselves?

Definitely. The war was certainly going in Germany's favor from 1939 to 1942. The Allies were on the brink of destruction. Britain was the only one barely hanging on in Europe, while America was preoccupied by Japan.

The mistake Hitler made was to invade the Soviet Union. This basically turned the course of the war. Not only did Hitler invade mother Russia, he made several tactical mistakes which denied his army the equipment to fight in the Cold.

All Germany needed to do was to enact some sort of Schillfien Plan, except the other way around. Deal with the Allies on the West, and focus all efforts on defeating Russia. The Nazis should have left the Holocaust near the end, since it used up too many resources.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
UtherPenguin
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2/9/2016 1:54:15 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 1:52:33 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:46:02 AM, Reformist wrote:
This is an interesting topic ive been meaning to talk about

Please state how you think it would be possible the axis powers could win via different scenarios.

Also if they won wouldn't they have just started WW3 with themselves?

Definitely. The war was certainly going in Germany's favor from 1939 to 1942. The Allies were on the brink of destruction. Britain was the only one barely hanging on in Europe, while America was preoccupied by Japan.

The mistake Hitler made was to invade the Soviet Union. This basically turned the course of the war. Not only did Hitler invade mother Russia, he made several tactical mistakes which denied his army the equipment to fight in the Cold.

All Germany needed to do was to enact some sort of Schillfien Plan, except the other way around. Deal with the Allies on the West, and focus all efforts on defeating Russia. The Nazis should have left the Holocaust near the end, since it used up too many resources.

Ironically, the Schliffen Plan was used to prevent a two fronts war, while Hitler just threw himself into one
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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2/9/2016 1:55:16 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 1:54:15 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:52:33 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:46:02 AM, Reformist wrote:
This is an interesting topic ive been meaning to talk about

Please state how you think it would be possible the axis powers could win via different scenarios.

Also if they won wouldn't they have just started WW3 with themselves?

Definitely. The war was certainly going in Germany's favor from 1939 to 1942. The Allies were on the brink of destruction. Britain was the only one barely hanging on in Europe, while America was preoccupied by Japan.

The mistake Hitler made was to invade the Soviet Union. This basically turned the course of the war. Not only did Hitler invade mother Russia, he made several tactical mistakes which denied his army the equipment to fight in the Cold.

All Germany needed to do was to enact some sort of Schillfien Plan, except the other way around. Deal with the Allies on the West, and focus all efforts on defeating Russia. The Nazis should have left the Holocaust near the end, since it used up too many resources.

Ironically, the Schliffen Plan was used to prevent a two fronts war, while Hitler just threw himself into one

Well his views on wiping out the Communists in the East were too hard to resist.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Reformist
Posts: 679
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2/9/2016 2:13:14 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 1:55:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:54:15 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:52:33 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:46:02 AM, Reformist wrote:
This is an interesting topic ive been meaning to talk about

Please state how you think it would be possible the axis powers could win via different scenarios.

Also if they won wouldn't they have just started WW3 with themselves?

Definitely. The war was certainly going in Germany's favor from 1939 to 1942. The Allies were on the brink of destruction. Britain was the only one barely hanging on in Europe, while America was preoccupied by Japan.

The mistake Hitler made was to invade the Soviet Union. This basically turned the course of the war. Not only did Hitler invade mother Russia, he made several tactical mistakes which denied his army the equipment to fight in the Cold.

All Germany needed to do was to enact some sort of Schillfien Plan, except the other way around. Deal with the Allies on the West, and focus all efforts on defeating Russia. The Nazis should have left the Holocaust near the end, since it used up too many resources.

Ironically, the Schliffen Plan was used to prevent a two fronts war, while Hitler just threw himself into one

Well his views on wiping out the Communists in the East were too hard to resist.

Gotta hate the communists. Still I mean they would've tried killing each other after the war. I wonder who would be the victor of a 4 way conflict? Japan, Russia, Germany or Italy. I think the Germans would annihilate everyone
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tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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2/9/2016 2:14:22 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 2:13:14 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:55:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:54:15 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:52:33 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:46:02 AM, Reformist wrote:
This is an interesting topic ive been meaning to talk about

Please state how you think it would be possible the axis powers could win via different scenarios.

Also if they won wouldn't they have just started WW3 with themselves?

Definitely. The war was certainly going in Germany's favor from 1939 to 1942. The Allies were on the brink of destruction. Britain was the only one barely hanging on in Europe, while America was preoccupied by Japan.

The mistake Hitler made was to invade the Soviet Union. This basically turned the course of the war. Not only did Hitler invade mother Russia, he made several tactical mistakes which denied his army the equipment to fight in the Cold.

All Germany needed to do was to enact some sort of Schillfien Plan, except the other way around. Deal with the Allies on the West, and focus all efforts on defeating Russia. The Nazis should have left the Holocaust near the end, since it used up too many resources.

Ironically, the Schliffen Plan was used to prevent a two fronts war, while Hitler just threw himself into one

Well his views on wiping out the Communists in the East were too hard to resist.

Gotta hate the communists. Still I mean they would've tried killing each other after the war. I wonder who would be the victor of a 4 way conflict? Japan, Russia, Germany or Italy. I think the Germans would annihilate everyone

Stalin killed like 40 million people after the war, so yeah...

Definitely. Germany is too superior.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Reformist
Posts: 679
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2/9/2016 2:19:06 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 2:14:22 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/9/2016 2:13:14 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:55:16 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:54:15 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:52:33 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:46:02 AM, Reformist wrote:
This is an interesting topic ive been meaning to talk about

Please state how you think it would be possible the axis powers could win via different scenarios.

Also if they won wouldn't they have just started WW3 with themselves?

Definitely. The war was certainly going in Germany's favor from 1939 to 1942. The Allies were on the brink of destruction. Britain was the only one barely hanging on in Europe, while America was preoccupied by Japan.

The mistake Hitler made was to invade the Soviet Union. This basically turned the course of the war. Not only did Hitler invade mother Russia, he made several tactical mistakes which denied his army the equipment to fight in the Cold.

All Germany needed to do was to enact some sort of Schillfien Plan, except the other way around. Deal with the Allies on the West, and focus all efforts on defeating Russia. The Nazis should have left the Holocaust near the end, since it used up too many resources.

Ironically, the Schliffen Plan was used to prevent a two fronts war, while Hitler just threw himself into one

Well his views on wiping out the Communists in the East were too hard to resist.

Gotta hate the communists. Still I mean they would've tried killing each other after the war. I wonder who would be the victor of a 4 way conflict? Japan, Russia, Germany or Italy. I think the Germans would annihilate everyone

Stalin killed like 40 million people after the war, so yeah...

Definitely. Germany is too superior.

I forgot the germans were also working on nukes so they would be able to take them all at once if they had enough time lol
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bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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2/9/2016 2:20:31 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 1:46:02 AM, Reformist wrote:
This is an interesting topic ive been meaning to talk about

Please state how you think it would be possible the axis powers could win via different scenarios.

Also if they won wouldn't they have just started WW3 with themselves?

Germany should not have invaded Russia. Don't forget that Russia had a peace treaty with Germany, and Hitler could've used this to even procure some mutual military alliance, since both Hitler and Stalin wanted land in the Eastern section of Europe. Basically, they wanted Poland split up between them.

However, since Germany did attack, it would've been best if Japan had focused all of its military on attacking Russia from the East. If Germany was attacking in the West and Japan in the East, then they would've destabilized Russia and the Cold War would've never happened.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Reformist
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2/9/2016 2:24:11 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 2:20:31 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:46:02 AM, Reformist wrote:
This is an interesting topic ive been meaning to talk about

Please state how you think it would be possible the axis powers could win via different scenarios.

Also if they won wouldn't they have just started WW3 with themselves?

Germany should not have invaded Russia. Don't forget that Russia had a peace treaty with Germany, and Hitler could've used this to even procure some mutual military alliance, since both Hitler and Stalin wanted land in the Eastern section of Europe. Basically, they wanted Poland split up between them.

However, since Germany did attack, it would've been best if Japan had focused all of its military on attacking Russia from the East. If Germany was attacking in the West and Japan in the East, then they would've destabilized Russia and the Cold War would've never happened.

Yeah the maps had plenty of land troops even after invasion of china. I wonder why they didn't go in there
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Fuher of the Reich

"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

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bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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2/9/2016 2:28:25 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 2:24:11 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 2/9/2016 2:20:31 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 2/9/2016 1:46:02 AM, Reformist wrote:
This is an interesting topic ive been meaning to talk about

Please state how you think it would be possible the axis powers could win via different scenarios.

Also if they won wouldn't they have just started WW3 with themselves?

Germany should not have invaded Russia. Don't forget that Russia had a peace treaty with Germany, and Hitler could've used this to even procure some mutual military alliance, since both Hitler and Stalin wanted land in the Eastern section of Europe. Basically, they wanted Poland split up between them.

However, since Germany did attack, it would've been best if Japan had focused all of its military on attacking Russia from the East. If Germany was attacking in the West and Japan in the East, then they would've destabilized Russia and the Cold War would've never happened.


Yeah the maps had plenty of land troops even after invasion of china. I wonder why they didn't go in there

They put a lot of troops in Manchuria, since those Chinese breed endlessly and there were millions of them. The Japanese also didn't want to war the Soviet Union as they would've suffered losses from attrition for having to trek through the entirety of Siberia and the Russian jungle (which wasn't industrialized and there weren't many railroads) to get to the main cities, which had the majority of the population and military defense.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Reformist
Posts: 679
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2/9/2016 2:32:14 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
My stupid phone keeps making stupid auto corrections

But at the same time I dont spell a lot of things correctly on the phone so I need it

My life is so hard
DDO History Revival Officer
Fuher of the Reich

"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

To be a feminist or to be smart that is the question
bballcrook21
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2/9/2016 3:53:10 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 2:32:14 AM, Reformist wrote:
My stupid phone keeps making stupid auto corrections

But at the same time I dont spell a lot of things correctly on the phone so I need it


My life is so hard

I hate my iphone 5. The buttons are too small and the autocorrect will change some 3 letter word into "chrysanthemum". It's stupid.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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2/9/2016 4:41:33 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Sure. All that was needed for the Axis powers to leave the U.S.S.R and the U.S.A the heck alone.
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Vox_Veritas
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2/9/2016 4:44:07 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Like, I mean: 81% of the U.S. was against entering WWII and if I'm not mistaken the U.S. was negotiating with Japan about all sorts of stuff at the time of Pearl Harbor. Having to fight the Americans was completely avoidable for the Axis powers and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was one of the most retarded things that ever happened in history.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Reformist
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2/9/2016 11:37:05 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 4:44:07 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Like, I mean: 81% of the U.S. was against entering WWII and if I'm not mistaken the U.S. was negotiating with Japan about all sorts of stuff at the time of Pearl Harbor. Having to fight the Americans was completely avoidable for the Axis powers and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was one of the most retarded things that ever happened in history.

Why the heck did Japan think bombi bombing America would help keep them out of the war. Is that literally the dumbest thing or is that just me?
DDO History Revival Officer
Fuher of the Reich

"I'm not Asian"-Vaarka

"I would rather have a fascist than a socialist in office"- Bball

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Vox_Veritas
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2/9/2016 4:20:15 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 11:37:05 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 2/9/2016 4:44:07 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Like, I mean: 81% of the U.S. was against entering WWII and if I'm not mistaken the U.S. was negotiating with Japan about all sorts of stuff at the time of Pearl Harbor. Having to fight the Americans was completely avoidable for the Axis powers and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was one of the most retarded things that ever happened in history.

Why the heck did Japan think bombi bombing America would help keep them out of the war. Is that literally the dumbest thing or is that just me?

I know, right? Germany and Japan eventually could've literally divided the world in half, each side taking a half. An unprecedented opportunity in world history was completely wasted by idiotic leadership.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Reformist
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2/9/2016 8:52:51 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 4:20:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 2/9/2016 11:37:05 AM, Reformist wrote:
At 2/9/2016 4:44:07 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Like, I mean: 81% of the U.S. was against entering WWII and if I'm not mistaken the U.S. was negotiating with Japan about all sorts of stuff at the time of Pearl Harbor. Having to fight the Americans was completely avoidable for the Axis powers and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was one of the most retarded things that ever happened in history.

Why the heck did Japan think bombi bombing America would help keep them out of the war. Is that literally the dumbest thing or is that just me?

I know, right? Germany and Japan eventually could've literally divided the world in half, each side taking a half. An unprecedented opportunity in world history was completely wasted by idiotic leadership.

I still think Germany wouldve betrayed Japan. I mean come on. If the germans wanted the slavs and the russians killed theyll want the asians killed off too.
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beng100
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2/12/2016 11:30:54 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/9/2016 1:46:02 AM, Reformist wrote:
This is an interesting topic ive been meaning to talk about

Please state how you think it would be possible the axis powers could win via different scenarios.

Also if they won wouldn't they have just started WW3 with themselves?

Yes they could have won if they had employed a different strategy. Italy was inept and offered nothing to the war effort. Germany made a chronic error in invading the ussr before defeating the uk. It should have focused all its efforts on defeating it through a successful invasion. It would have been risky but if Hitler had continued the relentless air and u boat campaign an invasion should have been possible especially with London so close to the likely landing sites around Dover. It could have then taken a few years to rebuild from the war effort. As it's interior would be largely undamaged it should have been possible. An invasion of the ussr should have been left until a later date with a Japanese invasion from the east being simultaneously carried out.

Japan made a chronic error in attacking pearl harbour. It was one of the most stupid things ever done in military history. Drawing a huge country with massive military assets into a war was just ridiculous. Japan should have ignored the USA and focus it's efforts on China. It could then at a later date invade British possessions such as Australia, new Zealand and India. After achieving this which would be a big ask, possibly requiring German assistance in some areas, which should be available following the end of the war in Europe Germany and Japan would be in prime position to attack the ussr. Germany could launch an operation similar to the failed 1941 campaign but without the burden of the British and Americans in the west. The Japanese could invade from a variety of strategic locations along the southern Russian border, possibly backed by German regiments.

It is likely with the strong axis position in the war Hitler could have pressurized General Franco to make his army available for the massive war, with Mussolini also able to provide assistance. It's also possible an invasion force could have attacked the Caucasian region following a successful north African campaign. It's hard to see how the ussr would survive this onslaught.

This war would be over quickly with the axis powers now in charge of most of the world's territory. It is likely by now that Canada would have joined the USA becoming part of its territory. The Japanese and the Nazis would have to spend most of their energy controlling their vast territories, possibly carrying out mass euthenazia to make the territory easier to control and fulfil racist ideology they held. By now it is likely the 2 vast empires realize that war is not neccessary as both already have vast areas under their control and little need to increase territory further. They would also have little appetite to invade the usa, a huge country on another continent that stayed out of the war but developed a massive army, navy, air force and nuclear weapons to defend itself from potential aggressors.

The axis powers would have gradually taken control of all remaining territory in Asia, Africa, Europe and Oceania while the usa would have taken control of the entire American continent to prevent the axis powers invading. A cold war between the 3 nuclear armed superpowers would then take place. The relative strength of each super nation and massive consequences of war would mean the cold war would likely still be in effect today. Each superpower would keep to its own territory and no movement of people between the countries would occur with a huge fortified border between Japan and Germany.