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Trotsky's Union

BlargArgNarg
Posts: 3
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11/5/2016 3:09:57 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
I'm new to this forum, so don't unleash hell upon me if this has been discussed before. But what if Trotsky managed to come to power in lieu of Stalin?
Subutai
Posts: 3,189
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11/5/2016 9:44:21 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/5/2016 3:09:57 AM, BlargArgNarg wrote:
I'm new to this forum, so don't unleash hell upon me if this has been discussed before. But what if Trotsky managed to come to power in lieu of Stalin?

Interesting question. First, Stalin's vision of communism was mostly industrial. His five year plans were basically grandiose plans to get the Soviet Union caught up the West in industrialization. Trotsky's vision of communism was more agricultural, in similarity with what Mao would later believe. He was a much bigger proponent of farm collectivization than Stalin was.

This would have had two-fold effects. Trotsky's lesser emphasis on industrialization would have made Russia lag even further behind the West than it already was, which would greatly affect its warring capabilities (more on that later). And Trotsky's greater emphasis on farm collectivization would have made the famine of 1932-33 even worse than it was under Stalin. Even if you consider the rumors that Stalin made the famine worse in places like Ukraine to snuff out their independence movements, the death toll, and consequent demographic effect would have at least been the same under Trotsky as it was under Stalin, if not worse, given that Trotsky was more devoted to farm collectivization.

The next important point is that Stalin was extremely paranoid. This was the major reason that Stalin executed or exiled so many people in his career. Trotsky would still have executed to exiled a lot of people, but it would have been a lot fewer people than Stalin, and in different areas. Trotsky's power base was the army, while Stalin's power base was the bureaucracy. Thus, Stalin's favorite target for purges was the army, who he always thought held designs on taking over power. But with Trotsky, it would have been the bureaucracy. Thus, the army would be much more intact, with the more competent, more experienced officers in command.

Combining these two points, we see that, as the Nazi military machine became stronger and stronger, Russia's military would be comparatively more experienced, but less well equipped under Trotsky than under Stalin. While, initially, the Russian military was completely unable to even slow down the Nazis, they were eventually able to turn the tide, in large part because of their better military equipment. The lack of experience in Russian commanders was quickly lessened as the campaign progressed, making it less and less of a problem. Under Trotsky, I don't think that the poor equipment of the military could have been balanced by the better overall experience of the high command, as that poor equipment couldn't be fixed so quickly. At best, I think the Soviet Union would have had a much harder time defeating the Nazis had Trotsky come to power.

From there, I'm not sure. Regardless, the war would have lasted longer than it did. If the Nazis eventually defeated Russia, which would have been very possible, they may have even had a chance to win the war (although I still think that's unlikely; the Nazi military machine would have been utterly depleted of resources and extremely disorganized at the end of such a campaign, and consequently unable to deal with an allied offensive). This would obviously created an entirely new world. Regardless, the geopolitical landscape would have completely changed. With Russia destroyed, China probably wouldn't have become communist. There would be no nation in the world even half way comparable to the U.S. in industrial capacity, technological innovation, or shear power for a very long time.

Overall, I think a lot would have changed if Trotsky had come to power, especially from a geopolitical perspective after WWII had concluded.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
BlargArgNarg
Posts: 3
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11/6/2016 12:44:32 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/5/2016 10:27:31 AM, Lynx_N wrote:
What's with the Maltese cross over a black/red/white flag?

It's the flag of the German Empire.
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,641
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11/6/2016 12:56:24 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/5/2016 3:09:57 AM, BlargArgNarg wrote:
I'm new to this forum, so don't unleash hell upon me if this has been discussed before. But what if Trotsky managed to come to power in lieu of Stalin?

There's a good video on this
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,641
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11/6/2016 12:57:41 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
Basically to shorten things, Stalin was more brutal but in favor of rapid industrialization, while Trotsky was less brutal, more ideological, and less in favor of rapid industrialization.
BlargArgNarg
Posts: 3
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11/6/2016 8:29:35 PM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/6/2016 12:56:24 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 11/5/2016 3:09:57 AM, BlargArgNarg wrote:
I'm new to this forum, so don't unleash hell upon me if this has been discussed before. But what if Trotsky managed to come to power in lieu of Stalin?

There's a good video on this



That's where I was basing this topic off of, I just wanted to hear the DDO community's opinion on it.
Lynx_N
Posts: 276
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11/20/2016 5:58:38 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/6/2016 12:44:32 AM, BlargArgNarg wrote:
At 11/5/2016 10:27:31 AM, Lynx_N wrote:
What's with the Maltese cross over a black/red/white flag?

It's the flag of the German Empire.

So you're a fan of Hitler then?
Bronto?
Congrats.

poet
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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11/20/2016 6:17:29 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/6/2016 12:57:41 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
Basically to shorten things, Stalin was more brutal but in favor of rapid industrialization, while Trotsky was less brutal, more ideological, and less in favor of rapid industrialization.

^^^
This
Say what you will about Stalin, but the man oversaw one of the most rapid modernization efforts in human history. That is what made the USSR a power to be reckoned with.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -