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Civil War, over slavery, ha!

Pigney
Posts: 31
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11/6/2016 12:35:53 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
I have heard people say the civil war was over states rights, others say it was over the right to back money with gold, but perhaps the most preposterous is that idea that the civil war was about slavery.
Hiu
Posts: 980
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11/7/2016 2:03:27 AM
Posted: 4 weeks ago
At 11/6/2016 12:35:53 AM, Pigney wrote:
I have heard people say the civil war was over states rights, others say it was over the right to back money with gold, but perhaps the most preposterous is that idea that the civil war was about slavery.

"In the spring of 1861, decades of simmering tensions between the northern and southern United States over issues including states' rights versus federal authority, westward expansion and slavery exploded into the American Civil War (1861-65)."

It continues...

" Growing abolitionist sentiment in the North after the 1830s and northern opposition to slavery"s extension into the new western territories led many southerners to fear that the existence of slavery in america"and thus the backbone of their economy"was in danger."

See:http://www.history.com...
Pigney
Posts: 31
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11/7/2016 9:15:04 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/7/2016 2:03:27 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 11/6/2016 12:35:53 AM, Pigney wrote:
I have heard people say the civil war was over states rights, others say it was over the right to back money with gold, but perhaps the most preposterous is that idea that the civil war was about slavery.

"In the spring of 1861, decades of simmering tensions between the northern and southern United States over issues including states' rights versus federal authority, westward expansion and slavery exploded into the American Civil War (1861-65)."

It continues...

" Growing abolitionist sentiment in the North after the 1830s and northern opposition to slavery"s extension into the new western territories led many southerners to fear that the existence of slavery in america"and thus the backbone of their economy"was in danger."

See:http://www.history.com...

Yes, so it would seem, but consider this, the emancipation proclamation was the first mention of slavery in the war. It was issued half-way through the war. Now how could a war be over something that first appeared in the middle of the war. Granted the state rights were being infringed upon by abolitionists (i am not saying slavery was good, i am simply saying it was the right of the state to determine slave laws) but it was certainly not the right that sparked the civil war. The right to cede was probably the right most in question (given that the war started over a conflict that sprung up from the north failing to recognize the south's right to cede).
Peepette
Posts: 1,237
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11/7/2016 10:37:06 PM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/7/2016 9:15:04 PM, Pigney wrote:
At 11/7/2016 2:03:27 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 11/6/2016 12:35:53 AM, Pigney wrote:
I have heard people say the civil war was over states rights, others say it was over the right to back money with gold, but perhaps the most preposterous is that idea that the civil war was about slavery.

"In the spring of 1861, decades of simmering tensions between the northern and southern United States over issues including states' rights versus federal authority, westward expansion and slavery exploded into the American Civil War (1861-65)."

It continues...

" Growing abolitionist sentiment in the North after the 1830s and northern opposition to slavery"s extension into the new western territories led many southerners to fear that the existence of slavery in america"and thus the backbone of their economy"was in danger."

See:http://www.history.com...

Yes, so it would seem, but consider this, the emancipation proclamation was the first mention of slavery in the war. It was issued half-way through the war. Now how could a war be over something that first appeared in the middle of the war. Granted the state rights were being infringed upon by abolitionists (i am not saying slavery was good, i am simply saying it was the right of the state to determine slave laws) but it was certainly not the right that sparked the civil war. The right to cede was probably the right most in question (given that the war started over a conflict that sprung up from the north failing to recognize the south's right to cede).

This is not the case. The subject of slavery was part of the Louisiana Purchase. Lincoln spoke on the topic on several occations prior to Emansipation Proclomation. From his view, a presidence had been set with the Louisiana Purchase abolishing slavery in federal lands, placing the subject under federal juristiction.
http://www.mrlincolnandfreedom.org...
http://www.civilwar.org...
Hiu
Posts: 980
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11/8/2016 1:21:28 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/7/2016 9:15:04 PM, Pigney wrote:
At 11/7/2016 2:03:27 AM, Hiu wrote:
At 11/6/2016 12:35:53 AM, Pigney wrote:
I have heard people say the civil war was over states rights, others say it was over the right to back money with gold, but perhaps the most preposterous is that idea that the civil war was about slavery.

"In the spring of 1861, decades of simmering tensions between the northern and southern United States over issues including states' rights versus federal authority, westward expansion and slavery exploded into the American Civil War (1861-65)."

It continues...

" Growing abolitionist sentiment in the North after the 1830s and northern opposition to slavery"s extension into the new western territories led many southerners to fear that the existence of slavery in america"and thus the backbone of their economy"was in danger."

See:http://www.history.com...

Yes, so it would seem, but consider this, the emancipation proclamation was the first mention of slavery in the war. It was issued half-way through the war. Now how could a war be over something that first appeared in the middle of the war. Granted the state rights were being infringed upon by abolitionists (i am not saying slavery was good, i am simply saying it was the right of the state to determine slave laws) but it was certainly not the right that sparked the civil war. The right to cede was probably the right most in question (given that the war started over a conflict that sprung up from the north failing to recognize the south's right to cede).

I gave you an entire link and information to read yet it seems you are content with your own set of thoughts so is this a discussion or you basically telling me that although you've considered my information, you are comfortable with your own beliefs? Now unless you have something to counter what I've given you, your opinion amounts to anecdotes. I am willing to consider your evidence.
imabench
Posts: 21,210
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11/8/2016 8:49:43 AM
Posted: 3 weeks ago
At 11/6/2016 12:35:53 AM, Pigney wrote:
I have heard people say the civil war was over states rights, others say it was over the right to back money with gold, but perhaps the most preposterous is that idea that the civil war was about slavery.

Several state organizations listed reasons for their secession from the Union, and many of those explicitly mentioned slavery as one of the reasons, which was voted on and ratified by State governments as official.

http://www.civilwar.org...

Congrats, youre retarded.
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Welfare-Worker
Posts: 1,170
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11/16/2016 6:04:47 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
For over fifty years I have been told that the civil war was not about slavery, it was about 'states rights'.
For over fifty years I have been told that the civil war was about slavery. Not from the same sources obviously, but equally credible sources.

I have concluded that it was about the right of states to govern themselves, and the foremost issue at the time was slavery.

It's the economy.
For the wealthy, their wealth came from owning slaves.
For the people dying on the battlefields, I don't think it was about retaining their wealth, as they had none. For them, it seems to me, it was about sovereignty.

I don't think it was as easy as "the civil war was about slavery", and yet, if there were no slavery, I doubt there would have been a war.
Subutai
Posts: 3,187
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11/20/2016 11:12:46 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/6/2016 12:35:53 AM, Pigney wrote:
I have heard people say the civil war was over states rights, others say it was over the right to back money with gold, but perhaps the most preposterous is that idea that the civil war was about slavery.

If you think that the civil war was about states rights, you're not wrong, but those states rights were about states rights regarding the institution of slavery. So you cant believe that one caused it without the other.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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11/20/2016 6:15:52 PM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/6/2016 12:35:53 AM, Pigney wrote:
I have heard people say the civil war was over states rights, others say it was over the right to back money with gold, but perhaps the most preposterous is that idea that the civil war was about slavery.

Secession was about slavery. The war was about preserving the union as a single political entity.
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ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
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11/21/2016 4:34:57 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/20/2016 6:15:52 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/6/2016 12:35:53 AM, Pigney wrote:
I have heard people say the civil war was over states rights, others say it was over the right to back money with gold, but perhaps the most preposterous is that idea that the civil war was about slavery.

Secession was about slavery. The war was about preserving the union as a single political entity.

Indeed.
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ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
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11/21/2016 4:35:27 AM
Posted: 2 weeks ago
At 11/20/2016 11:12:46 AM, Subutai wrote:
At 11/6/2016 12:35:53 AM, Pigney wrote:
I have heard people say the civil war was over states rights, others say it was over the right to back money with gold, but perhaps the most preposterous is that idea that the civil war was about slavery.

If you think that the civil war was about states rights, you're not wrong, but those states rights were about states rights regarding the institution of slavery. So you cant believe that one caused it without the other.

You're correct. I've heard the argument before, and it's deliriously circular. Lol.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
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Pigney
Posts: 31
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11/21/2016 8:34:13 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/8/2016 8:49:43 AM, imabench wrote:
At 11/6/2016 12:35:53 AM, Pigney wrote:
I have heard people say the civil war was over states rights, others say it was over the right to back money with gold, but perhaps the most preposterous is that idea that the civil war was about slavery.

Several state organizations listed reasons for their secession from the Union, and many of those explicitly mentioned slavery as one of the reasons, which was voted on and ratified by State governments as official.

http://www.civilwar.org...

Congrats, youre retarded.

Thanks for the complement. I will not deny, the breaking away of the south was over slavery, but not the war. the war was the farthest thing from that. But, i cannot say i blame too many of you. There are not many places where people can find real accurate history. Shucks, most people don't even know what the REAL Confederate flag looked like. It wasn't the one people call the Confederate flag today.
GrimlyF
Posts: 90
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11/24/2016 5:09:43 AM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/21/2016 8:34:13 PM, Pigney wrote:
At 11/8/2016 8:49:43 AM, imabench wrote:
At 11/6/2016 12:35:53 AM, Pigney wrote:
I have heard people say the civil war was over states rights, others say it was over the right to back money with gold, but perhaps the most preposterous is that idea that the civil war was about slavery.

Several state organizations listed reasons for their secession from the Union, and many of those explicitly mentioned slavery as one of the reasons, which was voted on and ratified by State governments as official.

http://www.civilwar.org...

Congrats, youre retarded.

Thanks for the complement. I will not deny, the breaking away of the south was over slavery, but not the war. the war was the farthest thing from that. But, i cannot say i blame too many of you. There are not many places where people can find real accurate history. Shucks, most people don't even know what the REAL Confederate flag looked like. It wasn't the one people call the Confederate flag today.

"Real accurate history".Perhaps a history buff such as yourself can tell me if the Confederacy were "freedom fighters" or "terrorists".I'm sure the Rebels thought of themselves as freedom fighters whilst the Union thought of them as terrorists but how does history categorise them?.............Quote; "Those who have served the cause of revolution have ploughed the sea". Simon Bolivar: 1783-1830.
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