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bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/17/2011 1:41:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Something I would like to change on this debate place is peoples constant referencing wiki for information that they do not obtain themselves. I would like to have a debate sometimes with people in person that will not be able to reference wiki an unreliable source for factual material. debating is about intelligence not the Dewey decimal system or wiki. I am not going to say anything personal but, if you need to reference things that tells me you are unsure of yourself. I think I am able to prove things with common sense and the information I have obtained in my lifetime and If someone were to bring something up in a debate I joined or created I would have an idea or know what my opponent was talking about and have a good and clear understanding of the subject. I don't like debating people who have to constantly reassure themselves or go try and learn something from wiki with 1hr left in a debate so they can come back and claim they know what their talking about now. It is annoying! LOL but for reals if you can't reference it from you brain and have to go elsewhere to find the information you are failing in a debate. The only reasonable thing about referencing things is for the voter so, they can decide who is correct without much knowledge on the subject. I ask you people does this make sense?
bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/17/2011 2:50:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Seriously people! you don't want to throw your two cents into this post but would rather argue with some idiot that claims this site sucks. Maybe he is right if you'd rather yell at someone for being a trouble maker other then have an actual opinion on a matter that relates to how people conduct their debates on this site.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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3/17/2011 2:52:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
are you whining because wiki isn't credible or just upset that they obtained the information more easily than they could without wikipedia?
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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3/17/2011 3:41:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm sorry, that was rude. I immediately regretted posting that. But on the other hand, you did sort of set it as your display picture... so I doubt you're very insecure about it.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/17/2011 3:44:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Referencing is to indicate that you aren't pulling things out of your butt.

For example, if we're doing a debate on the safety of nuclear energy, one can say that there has never been a single death in the US from nuclear energy or nuclear waste. If sources are not allowed, than the opponent can say, "yeah, there were hundreds of deaths from TMI, and another 88 people died from a radiation waste leak in Washington back in 1989." If someone were to say that, I'd grab a dozen links to news sources and historical documents that no one died from TMI as a result of radiation. But if I'm not allowed sources, then it is just my word against yours, so you can get away with pulling stuff out of your butt.

If you want to do debates with less or no sources, do theory debates, about how something may effects something else.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/17/2011 3:50:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
it is right above you in my first post? People with little education or small thought process's can easily go to wiki without having a clue about anything their debating and copy and paste it into their debate as if they obtained that knowledge previously before the debate. So, if you can understand that why would someone want to debate wiki pedia? I am here to debate people not a false source of information or website. You clearly must have misread or misunderstood my original post. one who relies on wiki to make points because they don't have the information or haven't informed themselves properly before the debate is not adequate to have a debate with someone who does. A debate is formed on the knowledge we know and the full storage of the information we have obtained about a subject, it is not I will look something up to see if I'm wrong and then say I know now after the fact, to me this means you haven't educated yourself proper for a debate. so go learn something then come back and start a debate with out having to constantly reassure yourself or educate yourself in a matter that you should already know about before joining a debate.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/17/2011 3:53:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 3:50:37 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
it is right above you in my first post? People with little education or small thought process's can easily go to wiki without having a clue about anything their debating and copy and paste it into their debate as if they obtained that knowledge previously before the debate. So, if you can understand that why would someone want to debate wiki pedia?

They can do that to any source, not just wikipedia. And if they copy and paste an argument, they are going to get nailed for plagerizing by the voters.

Also, it completes the point that in order for their copy/paste, to make any sense, they have to read it to make sure they are copying related material. And so, they will hopfully learn a thing or two in the process.

I am here to debate people not a false source of information or website. You clearly must have misread or misunderstood my original post. one who relies on wiki to make points because they don't have the information or haven't informed themselves properly before the debate is not adequate to have a debate with someone who does. A debate is formed on the knowledge we know and the full storage of the information we have obtained about a subject, it is not I will look something up to see if I'm wrong and then say I know now after the fact, to me this means you haven't educated yourself proper for a debate. so go learn something then come back and start a debate with out having to constantly reassure yourself or educate yourself in a matter that you should already know about before joining a debate.

Then make a note of those people and don't debate them.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/17/2011 4:01:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 3:44:43 PM, OreEle wrote:
Referencing is to indicate that you aren't pulling things out of your butt.

For example, if we're doing a debate on the safety of nuclear energy, one can say that there has never been a single death in the US from nuclear energy or nuclear waste. If sources are not allowed, than the opponent can say, "yeah, there were hundreds of deaths from TMI, and another 88 people died from a radiation waste leak in Washington back in 1989." If someone were to say that, I'd grab a dozen links to news sources and historical documents that no one died from TMI as a result of radiation. But if I'm not allowed sources, then it is just my word against yours, so you can get away with pulling stuff out of your butt.

If you want to do debates with less or no sources, do theory debates, about how something may effects something else.

Agree' d but, it would be only for the voter to have this information so they can make a clear judgement on who the winner is. If you don't know about nuclear energy don't debate it! You are going to look stupid always talking about what wiki said. Also there are so many more sources for information out there it's insane to think people find all the facts there when in fact there are very little because anyone can write into wiki. I could go there right now and add whatever I like false true or otherwise. Some of the information put there is done by practical jokers and morons why would you rely on such a source if you are debating something you are already supposed to know. has anyone taken a college course here? I am sure you have, no doubt. So, when your debating with another student in front of your professor are you going to tell them hold on let me look up something on wiki? Anyone defending their right to go on wiki and look up things they don't know during a debate is not following proper etiquette for any debate.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/17/2011 4:11:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
There are many other sources out there, but oddly enough, if you go to the bottom of a wiki article, many have dozens (some even hundreds) of links to back up what wiki says.

I often turn to wiki, but only use something in there, if it has a link to another legit source.

What a lot of people do, is they debate something of which they have a good amount of knowledge on, but they don't have a vast amount of knowledge on. And so getting links and sources (and turning to wiki every now and again) helps to expand their knowledge.

There is actually very little (outside of science) that I don't double check everything I think I know on wiki and its sources.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/17/2011 4:23:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 4:11:18 PM, OreEle wrote:
There are many other sources out there, but oddly enough, if you go to the bottom of a wiki article, many have dozens (some even hundreds) of links to back up what wiki says.

I often turn to wiki, but only use something in there, if it has a link to another legit source.

What a lot of people do, is they debate something of which they have a good amount of knowledge on, but they don't have a vast amount of knowledge on. And so getting links and sources (and turning to wiki every now and again) helps to expand their knowledge.

There is actually very little (outside of science) that I don't double check everything I think I know on wiki and its sources.

I understand that and that is what helps voters!!!!!!! You have to give you best argument to your knowledge and then the voters decided whether it is suitable or correct so the can determine who the winner is. Who want to get into a debate with someone who is using someone's Else's ideas to make their own claims. it makes no sense and its no longer a debate it is to people researching articles for the true. Look when a voter comes in to your debate and reads it they are going to pick the one with the best and most accurate information on the subject how do they know who that is if both debaters are providing information from a source outside themselves?
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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3/17/2011 4:34:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 4:23:16 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
Who want to get into a debate with someone who is using someone's Else's ideas to make their own claims.

Welcome to the entire world.

Ideas stopped being original a long time ago. It's an internet debating site. If you want them to think on their feet and offer no sources (essentially have an argument, not a real debate) then set the time limit for the rounds to 5 mins instead of days.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/17/2011 4:43:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 4:34:08 PM, askbob wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:23:16 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
Who want to get into a debate with someone who is using someone's Else's ideas to make their own claims.

Welcome to the entire world.

Ideas stopped being original a long time ago. It's an internet debating site. If you want them to think on their feet and offer no sources (essentially have an argument, not a real debate) then set the time limit for the rounds to 5 mins instead of days.

ignorance is shameful and people have no clue of what a actual debate sounds like. It is between two intellectuals that have a great and vast deal of knowledge on a subject and looking outside yourself for answers to the questions you are already supposed to know before a debate is cowardly. I don't care what you think the world's like or your perspective of how the world is changing. This is a debating forum that has people in it that have no clue on how to conduct themselves during a debate. Referencing is terms for disqualification everywhere else in the world but here.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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3/17/2011 5:05:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 4:43:23 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
ignorance is shameful and people have no clue of what a actual debate sounds like. It is between two intellectuals that have a great and vast deal of knowledge on a subject and looking outside yourself for answers to the questions you are already supposed to know before a debate is cowardly.

So in your opinion, experience is the only source of knowledge available. We should not trust information that we have not experienced as this is cowardly. Furthermore only people who are 100 years old who have experienced a concentrated area of knowledge for a long period of time should have the ability to debate.

LOL
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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3/17/2011 5:13:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 4:43:23 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:34:08 PM, askbob wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:23:16 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
Who want to get into a debate with someone who is using someone's Else's ideas to make their own claims.

Welcome to the entire world.

Ideas stopped being original a long time ago. It's an internet debating site. If you want them to think on their feet and offer no sources (essentially have an argument, not a real debate) then set the time limit for the rounds to 5 mins instead of days.

ignorance is shameful and people have no clue of what a actual debate sounds like. It is between two intellectuals that have a great and vast deal of knowledge on a subject and looking outside yourself for answers to the questions you are already supposed to know before a debate is cowardly. I don't care what you think the world's like or your perspective of how the world is changing. This is a debating forum that has people in it that have no clue on how to conduct themselves during a debate. Referencing is terms for disqualification everywhere else in the world but here.

Wait... So research is bad now?
BangBang-Coconut
Posts: 265
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3/17/2011 5:24:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 1:41:01 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
Something I would like to change on this debate place is peoples constant referencing wiki for information that they do not obtain themselves. I would like to have a debate sometimes with people in person that will not be able to reference wiki an unreliable source for factual material. debating is about intelligence not the Dewey decimal system or wiki. I am not going to say anything personal but, if you need to reference things that tells me you are unsure of yourself. I think I am able to prove things with common sense and the information I have obtained in my lifetime and If someone were to bring something up in a debate I joined or created I would have an idea or know what my opponent was talking about and have a good and clear understanding of the subject. I don't like debating people who have to constantly reassure themselves or go try and learn something from wiki with 1hr left in a debate so they can come back and claim they know what their talking about now. It is annoying! LOL but for reals if you can't reference it from you brain and have to go elsewhere to find the information you are failing in a debate. The only reasonable thing about referencing things is for the voter so, they can decide who is correct without much knowledge on the subject. I ask you people does this make sense?

There needs to be a balance of sources, and outside information.
Wiki isn't bad though :D
bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/18/2011 2:02:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:05:28 PM, askbob wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:43:23 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
ignorance is shameful and people have no clue of what a actual debate sounds like. It is between two intellectuals that have a great and vast deal of knowledge on a subject and looking outside yourself for answers to the questions you are already supposed to know before a debate is cowardly.


So in your opinion, experience is the only source of knowledge available. We should not trust information that we have not experienced as this is cowardly. Furthermore only people who are 100 years old who have experienced a concentrated area of knowledge for a long period of time should have the ability to debate.

LOL

Hi buddy, are you reading everything I write in my posts or are you just reading a couple lines? No all information needs be obtained previous to the debate and not during the debate, is that clear? Sure you can do all the referencing and studying you want before the debate how else are you going to be able to debate without any knowledge on the subject? wikipedia maybe I don't know.

"has anyone taken a college course here? I am sure you have, no doubt. So, when your debating with another student in front of your professor are you going to tell them hold on let me look up something on wikiperdia?"

Hope this answers your question and I have made it clear enough for you to understand.
bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/18/2011 2:10:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:13:05 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:43:23 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:34:08 PM, askbob wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:23:16 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
Who want to get into a debate with someone who is using someone's Else's ideas to make their own claims.

Welcome to the entire world.

Ideas stopped being original a long time ago. It's an internet debating site. If you want them to think on their feet and offer no sources (essentially have an argument, not a real debate) then set the time limit for the rounds to 5 mins instead of days.

ignorance is shameful and people have no clue of what a actual debate sounds like. It is between two intellectuals that have a great and vast deal of knowledge on a subject and looking outside yourself for answers to the questions you are already supposed to know before a debate is cowardly. I don't care what you think the world's like or your perspective of how the world is changing. This is a debating forum that has people in it that have no clue on how to conduct themselves during a debate. Referencing is terms for disqualification everywhere else in the world but here.

Wait... So research is bad now?

OMG seriously! No, it is not bad at all it is great and a good Idea but all research needs to be done prior to the debate. How come people aren't getting this? I know one person here has had to take a debate class in college to get their GE. It can't be that all these people on this site have only started debating here without previously had a real one. Anyone into politics here? have you seen a political debate before? do politicians reference things on the web or anywhere else during their debates?
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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3/18/2011 2:12:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 2:10:26 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:13:05 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:43:23 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:34:08 PM, askbob wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:23:16 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
Who want to get into a debate with someone who is using someone's Else's ideas to make their own claims.

Welcome to the entire world.

Ideas stopped being original a long time ago. It's an internet debating site. If you want them to think on their feet and offer no sources (essentially have an argument, not a real debate) then set the time limit for the rounds to 5 mins instead of days.

ignorance is shameful and people have no clue of what a actual debate sounds like. It is between two intellectuals that have a great and vast deal of knowledge on a subject and looking outside yourself for answers to the questions you are already supposed to know before a debate is cowardly. I don't care what you think the world's like or your perspective of how the world is changing. This is a debating forum that has people in it that have no clue on how to conduct themselves during a debate. Referencing is terms for disqualification everywhere else in the world but here.

Wait... So research is bad now?

OMG seriously! No, it is not bad at all it is great and a good Idea but all research needs to be done prior to the debate. How come people aren't getting this? I know one person here has had to take a debate class in college to get their GE. It can't be that all these people on this site have only started debating here without previously had a real one. Anyone into politics here? have you seen a political debate before? do politicians reference things on the web or anywhere else during their debates?

Why does research need to be done prior to the debate? Internet debates are different to IRL debates.
bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/18/2011 2:15:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 2:10:26 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:13:05 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:43:23 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:34:08 PM, askbob wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:23:16 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
Who want to get into a debate with someone who is using someone's Else's ideas to make their own claims.

Welcome to the entire world.

Ideas stopped being original a long time ago. It's an internet debating site. If you want them to think on their feet and offer no sources (essentially have an argument, not a real debate) then set the time limit for the rounds to 5 mins instead of days.

ignorance is shameful and people have no clue of what a actual debate sounds like. It is between two intellectuals that have a great and vast deal of knowledge on a subject and looking outside yourself for answers to the questions you are already supposed to know before a debate is cowardly. I don't care what you think the world's like or your perspective of how the world is changing. This is a debating forum that has people in it that have no clue on how to conduct themselves during a debate. Referencing is terms for disqualification everywhere else in the world but here.

Wait... So research is bad now?

OMG seriously! No, it is not bad at all it is great and a good Idea but all research needs to be done prior to the debate. How come people aren't getting this? I know one person here has had to take a debate class in college to get their GE. It can't be that all these people on this site have only started debating here without previously had a real one. Anyone into politics here? have you seen a political debate before? do politicians reference things on the web or anywhere else during their debates?
"It can't be that all these people on this site have only started debating here without previously had a real one."
I meant, It can't be that all these people on this site have only started debating here without previously having a real one.
bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/18/2011 2:24:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 2:12:12 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 3/18/2011 2:10:26 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
At 3/17/2011 5:13:05 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:43:23 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:34:08 PM, askbob wrote:
At 3/17/2011 4:23:16 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
Who want to get into a debate with someone who is using someone's Else's ideas to make their own claims.

Welcome to the entire world.

Ideas stopped being original a long time ago. It's an internet debating site. If you want them to think on their feet and offer no sources (essentially have an argument, not a real debate) then set the time limit for the rounds to 5 mins instead of days.

ignorance is shameful and people have no clue of what a actual debate sounds like. It is between two intellectuals that have a great and vast deal of knowledge on a subject and looking outside yourself for answers to the questions you are already supposed to know before a debate is cowardly. I don't care what you think the world's like or your perspective of how the world is changing. This is a debating forum that has people in it that have no clue on how to conduct themselves during a debate. Referencing is terms for disqualification everywhere else in the world but here.

Wait... So research is bad now?

OMG seriously! No, it is not bad at all it is great and a good Idea but all research needs to be done prior to the debate. How come people aren't getting this? I know one person here has had to take a debate class in college to get their GE. It can't be that all these people on this site have only started debating here without previously had a real one. Anyone into politics here? have you seen a political debate before? do politicians reference things on the web or anywhere else during their debates?

Why does research need to be done prior to the debate? Internet debates are different to IRL debates.

Well, at least your reasonable.:) how can it be a debate then? wouldn't that be like studying for a debate with a friend. I was unaware that referencing during a debate was fair to your opponent but I guess if both people are referencing it's fair but, doesn't it defeat the purpose of a debate? A debate is to be had between to people to find out who is better informed on a subject, not to see who is the better referencer but, I understand that some of the people that here are only here to be smart asses.
bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/18/2011 2:36:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/17/2011 5:24:10 PM, Hello-Orange wrote:
At 3/17/2011 1:41:01 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
Something I would like to change on this debate place is peoples constant referencing wiki for information that they do not obtain themselves. I would like to have a debate sometimes with people in person that will not be able to reference wiki an unreliable source for factual material. debating is about intelligence not the Dewey decimal system or wiki. I am not going to say anything personal but, if you need to reference things that tells me you are unsure of yourself. I think I am able to prove things with common sense and the information I have obtained in my lifetime and If someone were to bring something up in a debate I joined or created I would have an idea or know what my opponent was talking about and have a good and clear understanding of the subject. I don't like debating people who have to constantly reassure themselves or go try and learn something from wiki with 1hr left in a debate so they can come back and claim they know what their talking about now. It is annoying! LOL but for reals if you can't reference it from you brain and have to go elsewhere to find the information you are failing in a debate. The only reasonable thing about referencing things is for the voter so, they can decide who is correct without much knowledge on the subject. I ask you people does this make sense?

There needs to be a balance of sources, and outside information.
Wiki isn't bad though :D

thanks, this is true some balance needs to be made.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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3/18/2011 4:00:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Oh I get it, this whole thread is a whinge by the OP about our debate. http://www.debate.org...

He's PMed me about it too and I've addressed it there but if he wants to discuss it here then that's just fine.

Basically, although he also used wiki to try and back up his claims about music motivating LA rioters, he was miffed because when he provided a list of rappers who he claimed had been charged with homicide, I was pretty sure they hadn't so I quickly checked that their wiki pages didn't mention it and then called him out on it.

He has since been unable to provide any source to corroborate his claim that Biggie, Big Daddy Kane, Nas, Dre, Rakim and Jay Z have been charged with murder, therefore I am apparently a smartarse.

He is seeking the freedom to make stuff up in debates, or so it seems.
bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/18/2011 4:23:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 4:00:11 PM, feverish wrote:
Oh I get it, this whole thread is a whinge by the OP about our debate. http://www.debate.org...

He's PMed me about it too and I've addressed it there but if he wants to discuss it here then that's just fine.

Basically, although he also used wiki to try and back up his claims about music motivating LA rioters, he was miffed because when he provided a list of rappers who he claimed had been charged with homicide, I was pretty sure they hadn't so I quickly checked that their wiki pages didn't mention it and then called him out on it.

He has since been unable to provide any source to corroborate his claim that Biggie, Big Daddy Kane, Nas, Dre, Rakim and Jay Z have been charged with murder, therefore I am apparently a smartarse.

He is seeking the freedom to make stuff up in debates, or so it seems.

No, not at all feverish I never brought my debate into this at all. I don't know why you are even talking about this when you didn't use many links to wiki anyways. I don't think either one of us did that much wikipediaing. go back and read what I wrote and tell me I plagiarized anything in it, I wrote everything on my own. I only left the links to Charles Manson and the rage against the machine concert because you ask for a burden of proof in round 2. Anyone who feels like looking at our debate is welcome to I would like your opinion's as well. Hopefully people from America read that I am talking about American culture and not the UK's or Canada's.
Have a good weekend and I hope you keep that fever down.
bloodsnhall
Posts: 41
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3/18/2011 4:29:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 4:00:11 PM, feverish wrote:
Oh I get it, this whole thread is a whinge by the OP about our debate. http://www.debate.org...

He's PMed me about it too and I've addressed it there but if he wants to discuss it here then that's just fine.

Basically, although he also used wiki to try and back up his claims about music motivating LA rioters, he was miffed because when he provided a list of rappers who he claimed had been charged with homicide, I was pretty sure they hadn't so I quickly checked that their wiki pages didn't mention it and then called him out on it.

He has since been unable to provide any source to corroborate his claim that Biggie, Big Daddy Kane, Nas, Dre, Rakim and Jay Z have been charged with murder, therefore I am apparently a smartarse.

He is seeking the freedom to make stuff up in debates, or so it seems.

Please also views my comments where I state that i made the rounds to short and that I didn't make enough rounds for us to finish our debate. I take full responsibility for this and wasn't aware I would be making a mistake when setting up my first real debate here on debate.org. My apologizes again to anyone I offended by doing so.
bloodsnhall
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3/18/2011 4:41:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 4:23:39 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:00:11 PM, feverish wrote:
Oh I get it, this whole thread is a whinge by the OP about our debate. http://www.debate.org...

He's PMed me about it too and I've addressed it there but if he wants to discuss it here then that's just fine.

Basically, although he also used wiki to try and back up his claims about music motivating LA rioters, he was miffed because when he provided a list of rappers who he claimed had been charged with homicide, I was pretty sure they hadn't so I quickly checked that their wiki pages didn't mention it and then called him out on it.

He has since been unable to provide any source to corroborate his claim that Biggie, Big Daddy Kane, Nas, Dre, Rakim and Jay Z have been charged with murder, therefore I am apparently a smartarse.

He is seeking the freedom to make stuff up in debates, or so it seems.

No, not at all feverish I never brought my debate into this at all. I don't know why you are even talking about this when you didn't use many links to wiki anyways. I don't think either one of us did that much wikipediaing. go back and read what I wrote and tell me I plagiarized anything in it, I wrote everything on my own. I only left the links to Charles Manson and the rage against the machine concert because you ask for a burden of proof in round 2. Anyone who feels like looking at our debate is welcome to I would like your opinion's as well. Hopefully people from America read that I am talking about American culture and not the UK's or Canada's.
Have a good weekend and I hope you keep that fever down.

One other thing feverish would you like to add anything to this post other then your attempt to discredit me?
feverish
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3/18/2011 4:44:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 4:23:39 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:

No, not at all feverish

Well if I was wrong, then sorry for making that assumption but the connection between stuff you wrote here:

I am not going to say anything personal but, if you need to reference things that tells me you are unsure of yourself. I think I am able to prove things with common sense and the information I have obtained in my lifetime and If someone were to bring something up in a debate I joined or created I would have an idea or know what my opponent was talking about and have a good and clear understanding of the subject. I don't like debating people who have to constantly reassure themselves or go try and learn something from wiki with 1hr left in a debate so they can come back and claim they know what their talking about now. It is annoying! LOL but for reals if you can't reference it from you brain and have to go elsewhere to find the information you are failing in a debate.

one who relies on wiki to make points because they don't have the information or haven't informed themselves properly before the debate is not adequate to have a debate with someone who does. A debate is formed on the knowledge we know and the full storage of the information we have obtained about a subject, it is not I will look something up to see if I'm wrong and then say I know now after the fact, to me this means you haven't educated yourself proper for a debate

ignorance is shameful and people have no clue of what a actual debate sounds like. It is between two intellectuals that have a great and vast deal of knowledge on a subject and looking outside yourself for answers to the questions you are already supposed to know before a debate is cowardly. I don't care what you think the world's like or your perspective of how the world is changing. This is a debating forum that has people in it that have no clue on how to conduct themselves during a debate. Referencing is terms for disqualification everywhere else in the world but here.

I was unaware that referencing during a debate was fair to your opponent but I guess if both people are referencing it's fair but, doesn't it defeat the purpose of a debate? A debate is to be had between to people to find out who is better informed on a subject, not to see who is the better referencer but, I understand that some of the people that here are only here to be smart asses.

... and the PM you sent me around the time you made this thread:

you know wiki pedia is a false source for actual facts, sure their interesting things and some truths there but in no way is it a liable source for information. With that said I researched the names myself because I know for a fact that my information is correct because I live where it happened and found found them all I don't know how much you looked into it but you are clearly not educated in the customs that reside in the rap culture or the rap artists who have commited crimes for the cause here in the USA. So you looked at wiki and found that none of those you stated were accused of murder or were not accused of being accomplices in murder? becuase I can prove from your first one "Kane" that he was not only on trial for murder but also cocian trafficing.

.... led me to that conclusion.

Once again, I'd really love to see your sources for this stuff.

You have a good weekend too man.
bloodsnhall
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3/18/2011 4:59:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 4:44:27 PM, feverish wrote:
At 3/18/2011 4:23:39 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:

No, not at all feverish

Well if I was wrong, then sorry for making that assumption but the connection between stuff you wrote here:

I am not going to say anything personal but, if you need to reference things that tells me you are unsure of yourself. I think I am able to prove things with common sense and the information I have obtained in my lifetime and If someone were to bring something up in a debate I joined or created I would have an idea or know what my opponent was talking about and have a good and clear understanding of the subject. I don't like debating people who have to constantly reassure themselves or go try and learn something from wiki with 1hr left in a debate so they can come back and claim they know what their talking about now. It is annoying! LOL but for reals if you can't reference it from you brain and have to go elsewhere to find the information you are failing in a debate.

one who relies on wiki to make points because they don't have the information or haven't informed themselves properly before the debate is not adequate to have a debate with someone who does. A debate is formed on the knowledge we know and the full storage of the information we have obtained about a subject, it is not I will look something up to see if I'm wrong and then say I know now after the fact, to me this means you haven't educated yourself proper for a debate

ignorance is shameful and people have no clue of what a actual debate sounds like. It is between two intellectuals that have a great and vast deal of knowledge on a subject and looking outside yourself for answers to the questions you are already supposed to know before a debate is cowardly. I don't care what you think the world's like or your perspective of how the world is changing. This is a debating forum that has people in it that have no clue on how to conduct themselves during a debate. Referencing is terms for disqualification everywhere else in the world but here.

I was unaware that referencing during a debate was fair to your opponent but I guess if both people are referencing it's fair but, doesn't it defeat the purpose of a debate? A debate is to be had between to people to find out who is better informed on a subject, not to see who is the better referencer but, I understand that some of the people that here are only here to be smart asses.

... and the PM you sent me around the time you made this thread:

you know wiki pedia is a false source for actual facts, sure their interesting things and some truths there but in no way is it a liable source for information. With that said I researched the names myself because I know for a fact that my information is correct because I live where it happened and found found them all I don't know how much you looked into it but you are clearly not educated in the customs that reside in the rap culture or the rap artists who have commited crimes for the cause here in the USA. So you looked at wiki and found that none of those you stated were accused of murder or were not accused of being accomplices in murder? becuase I can prove from your first one "Kane" that he was not only on trial for murder but also cocian trafficing.

.... led me to that conclusion.

Once again, I'd really love to see your sources for this stuff.

You have a good weekend too man.

My PM to you was of the same matter this is true but in no way was I stating that this had anything to do with our debate. I was trying to explain to you that wiki is not a reliable source for all material. Also after your poor judgement and your personal attack on me I am no longer willing or interested in debating anything with you. That and the fact that not one American has voted on our debate when the subject of the debate was about American Music culture. And last I made a mistake in my debate by not adding that these people were implemented of or accomplices of these crimes as well, but did somewhere in the debate but not where I had to so in that respect I failed. What is your deal? you think by posting a person message I sent you that it holds a claim or redeems you from your person attacks?
feverish
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3/19/2011 6:51:20 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/18/2011 4:59:53 PM, bloodsnhall wrote:

Also after your poor judgement and your personal attack on me I am no longer willing or interested in debating anything with you.

It's up to you if you want to engage with me or not mate. Sorry if you think I've made a personal attack, perhaps you could show me where, as I don't think I have.