Total Posts:12|Showing Posts:1-12
Jump to topic:

Vegan diet

PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2011 6:58:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
So, I've been wrestling with the notion of going mostly vegan for about a year now. It's only been recently that I've actually been experimenting with it. And all of that came after years of skeptical research in to it. The straw that broke the camel's back was after about 3 weeks of eating garbage food straight because I was living on the road. I felt like total @ss all the time.

I haven't taken the full plunge, and probably won't ever. I still eat beef about once a week and only for one meal. Same with chicken. The only flesh I eat lots of is fish. I eat sushi about 5 times a week, that I make to cut down on the ridiculous expense of sushi at a restaurant. I also eat egg whites about 5 times a week.

Beyond that, it's almost entirely vegan. That includes little to no dairy. Most everything I eat grows in the ground, and I eat almost entirely whole foods.

The benefit, of course, is that these are very lean meals with almost no fat or cholesterol. I finally started back up my Navy SEAL workouts again, and this in tandem with the new diet is making me feel pretty damn good as a result.

My uncle too has been a mostly vegan for about a year now and has reported phenomenal results. His cholesterol is down 60%, for instance. That's a huge figure if you stop and think about it.

But there are a lot of preconceived notions about vegans. Believe me, I would know, I espoused all of them. What are your thoughts about veganism, though?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2011 7:49:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Good for you. Having a disciplined diet is very rewarding. Although, based on my research, Veganism is not as healthy as regular Vegetarianism. Both are healthier than meat-eating though.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2011 9:09:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 7:49:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Good for you. Having a disciplined diet is very rewarding. Although, based on my research, Veganism is not as healthy as regular Vegetarianism. Both are healthier than meat-eating though.

FREEDO, why do you consider vegetarianism healthier than veganism?
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2011 9:11:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
P_L, what preconceived notions are you referring to? I know several but am curious which ones you would note.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2011 9:50:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 9:11:29 PM, vbaculum wrote:
P_L, what preconceived notions are you referring to? I know several but am curious which ones you would note.:

Just the usual stereotypes, like, vegans are:

All hippies, pasty and sickly, are only vegans for ethical reasons, etc. I don't fit the profile of any of those categories.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2011 10:01:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 9:50:22 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 4/22/2011 9:11:29 PM, vbaculum wrote:
P_L, what preconceived notions are you referring to? I know several but am curious which ones you would note.:

Just the usual stereotypes, like, vegans are:

All hippies, pasty and sickly, are only vegans for ethical reasons, etc. I don't fit the profile of any of those categories.

I hate how vegetarianism is associated with hippies and liberals. I don't want to be associated with hippies and liberals.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2011 10:13:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 10:01:30 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 4/22/2011 9:50:22 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 4/22/2011 9:11:29 PM, vbaculum wrote:
P_L, what preconceived notions are you referring to? I know several but am curious which ones you would note.:

Just the usual stereotypes, like, vegans are:

All hippies, pasty and sickly, are only vegans for ethical reasons, etc. I don't fit the profile of any of those categories.

I hate how vegetarianism is associated with hippies and liberals. I don't want to be associated with hippies and liberals.:

Touche!
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2011 10:20:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 9:50:22 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 4/22/2011 9:11:29 PM, vbaculum wrote:
P_L, what preconceived notions are you referring to? I know several but am curious which ones you would note.:

Just the usual stereotypes, like, vegans are:

All hippies, pasty and sickly, are only vegans for ethical reasons, etc. I don't fit the profile of any of those categories.

I don't see the connection between vegans and hippies. Until Singer's Animal Liberation (1975) came out the concept was almost unknown. I can't think of a noteworthy hippy who is a vegan?

I hear the "pasty and sickly" stereotype a lot on the Internet (it would never come up in person). I figure it may be a meme spread by the meat industry since there simply is no science I'm aware of that supports this idea. However, there is the fact that a lot of anorexics decide to adopt a vegan or vegetarian diet to further their goal of excessive weight reduction. So a person may know someone is a vegan but not that they're anorexic because the anorexic may not know he or she has an eating disorder or is ashamed of it and therefore won't divulge that information.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2011 10:24:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 10:13:03 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 4/22/2011 10:01:30 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 4/22/2011 9:50:22 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 4/22/2011 9:11:29 PM, vbaculum wrote:
P_L, what preconceived notions are you referring to? I know several but am curious which ones you would note.:

Just the usual stereotypes, like, vegans are:

All hippies, pasty and sickly, are only vegans for ethical reasons, etc. I don't fit the profile of any of those categories.

I hate how vegetarianism is associated with hippies and liberals. I don't want to be associated with hippies and liberals.:

Touche!

LOL, same here.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2011 11:28:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 9:09:11 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 4/22/2011 7:49:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Good for you. Having a disciplined diet is very rewarding. Although, based on my research, Veganism is not as healthy as regular Vegetarianism. Both are healthier than meat-eating though.

FREEDO, why do you consider vegetarianism healthier than veganism?

Vegans tend to be protein deficient and probably the biggest problem they will have get around is vitamin B12 which is almost non-existent in a vegan diet. None of the top ten foods for b12 are vegan-friendly: http://www.healthaliciousness.com...
I recommend taking supplements.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2011 12:59:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/22/2011 11:28:32 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 4/22/2011 9:09:11 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 4/22/2011 7:49:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Good for you. Having a disciplined diet is very rewarding. Although, based on my research, Veganism is not as healthy as regular Vegetarianism. Both are healthier than meat-eating though.

FREEDO, why do you consider vegetarianism healthier than veganism?

Vegans tend to be protein deficient and probably the biggest problem they will have get around is vitamin B12 which is almost non-existent in a vegan diet. None of the top ten foods for b12 are vegan-friendly: http://www.healthaliciousness.com...
I recommend taking supplements.

Do you have any scientific data to back up the claim that vegans tend to be protein deficient. The ADA claims vegans tend to meet or exceed protein requirements (http://www.adajournal.org...)

As far as B12 goes I don't consider it a concern for vegans who consume fortified foods. This is from a debate I had with RoyLatham:

However, the true source of B12 is not meat but rather bacteria[12]. Livestock animal are contaminated with B12-producing bacteria they obtain from the soil and manure in their feed[13]. However, B12 does not have to come from unhealthy animal sources.

B12 can be extracted directly from the B12-producing bacteria. This B12 is used to fortify breakfast cereals[11], non-dairy beverages[10] and protein bars[14]. One cup[15] of my favorite brand of soy milk contains 100% of an adult's daily requirement of B12[10].

So which is better: B12 from contaminated animals or B12 direct from the bacterial source?

When animals absorb B12 it becomes bound to the animal's protein molecules[16][12]. This makes it hard for many people to absorb B12[12][17]. These people develop B12 deficiencies and must consume the more easily absorbed B12 that vegans rely on[18]. The B12 found in fortified, plant-based foods is easily absorbed and is considered reliable[18].
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/23/2011 1:17:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/23/2011 12:59:35 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 4/22/2011 11:28:32 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 4/22/2011 9:09:11 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 4/22/2011 7:49:27 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Good for you. Having a disciplined diet is very rewarding. Although, based on my research, Veganism is not as healthy as regular Vegetarianism. Both are healthier than meat-eating though.

FREEDO, why do you consider vegetarianism healthier than veganism?

Vegans tend to be protein deficient and probably the biggest problem they will have get around is vitamin B12 which is almost non-existent in a vegan diet. None of the top ten foods for b12 are vegan-friendly: http://www.healthaliciousness.com...
I recommend taking supplements.

Do you have any scientific data to back up the claim that vegans tend to be protein deficient. The ADA claims vegans tend to meet or exceed protein requirements (http://www.adajournal.org...)

As far as B12 goes I don't consider it a concern for vegans who consume fortified foods. This is from a debate I had with RoyLatham:

However, the true source of B12 is not meat but rather bacteria[12]. Livestock animal are contaminated with B12-producing bacteria they obtain from the soil and manure in their feed[13]. However, B12 does not have to come from unhealthy animal sources.

B12 can be extracted directly from the B12-producing bacteria. This B12 is used to fortify breakfast cereals[11], non-dairy beverages[10] and protein bars[14]. One cup[15] of my favorite brand of soy milk contains 100% of an adult's daily requirement of B12[10].

So which is better: B12 from contaminated animals or B12 direct from the bacterial source?

When animals absorb B12 it becomes bound to the animal's protein molecules[16][12]. This makes it hard for many people to absorb B12[12][17]. These people develop B12 deficiencies and must consume the more easily absorbed B12 that vegans rely on[18]. The B12 found in fortified, plant-based foods is easily absorbed and is considered reliable[18].


Actually, regarding vegans and protein, since your claim was that vegetarians are healthier than vegans, you would have to show evidence that vegans are protein deficient and unhealthier because of it. In other words, just showing that vegans get less protein than the RDA prescribes isn't enough. You would have to show that it has consequences.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it