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The New Elitism

PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/9/2011 1:48:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
As many of you know, I subscribe to a libertarian political and social philosophy. I genuinely believe in it for many reasons. But what concerns me is the latest shift in trends. It seems a lot of people are now defecting to the libertarian/ancap camp. In many ways I think that is healthy. Despite that, there are several drawbacks. The more people that come over don't seem to understand why, and we're already seeing it as the trendy thing to do. We don't need trolls who piggyback and jump on to a bandwagon just because.

Perhaps more remarkably, an unprecedented paradigm shift has taken place on many college campuses. Campuses have traditionally (within the last 30-50 years) have been innundated by leftist ideology. And if you didn't know that, you're either one of them or you're oblivious. They were smarmy, self-righteous prigs who denigrated anyone not of their ilk.

Much to my dismay, it appears that libertarian/ancap circles are taking the reigns on that. Simply put, I don't like it because it inadvertently gives those who aren't a bad rap. Without name dropping, there've been a few on this site (this isn't an invitation to flame specific people, so tread carefully).

The new elitists seem not to be liberals, but libertarians. And while I'm very pleased with libertarianism as a political and social philosophy, I don't think the smug, elitist, and sanctimonious attitude is going to do it any favors.

Now, of course many of you know that I'm often a prick and I curse like a sailor (though in my defense, I was a sailor for the better part of a decade, so cut me some F*CKING slack!!!). <----- But 9/10 times I do so in jest. Notwithstanding my penchant for jocularity, some take it offensive. I don't want to contribute to the New Elitism, though I will still tell you to go f*ck yourself on any given day... just because.

So the question is, how to strike a balance between the luminaries that the world needs without being a smug @sshole in the process? Decisions, decisons....
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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7/9/2011 3:14:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's nothing to worry about, every 30 to 50 years humanity comes up with an smug, elitist, and unfeasible doctrine to embrace, after a few years it dissipates and gets replaced with something else that is equally as smug, elitist, and unfeasible. The only doctrine to ever actually happen in reality is moderate doctrine but human behavior tends to make us deny the fact we accept moderate doctrines to an greater degree.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/9/2011 3:19:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Paradigm, i think you and i agree mostly in our views on libertarianism, and don't take the hardcore anarchist side to it. First, i wouldn't worry about liberalism evaporating from college campuses; i can safely say it is alive and thriving on most campuses. Second, every ideology has an extreme, so the left has it's extreme and the libertarians have theirs, but in personal characteristic, they are similar. Both are quite a bit self righteous and smug. Keep in mind the median age of those who hold these positions, and the characteristics of that age. I don't mean to sound like an old condescending prick here, but just that we all go through our stages in life, and there is the righteous indignation stage that a lot of people go through when they are in college or so.

I don't think that there is so much to worry about, in fact i welcome the ancaps because at last there is balance to the leftist moonbats. Also, the ancaps argue from a position of reason and fact rather than emotion, which is somewhat refreshing.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/9/2011 3:24:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/9/2011 3:14:46 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
It's nothing to worry about, every 30 to 50 years humanity comes up with an smug, elitist, and unfeasible doctrine to embrace, after a few years it dissipates and gets replaced with something else that is equally as smug, elitist, and unfeasible. The only doctrine to ever actually happen in reality is moderate doctrine but human behavior tends to make us deny the fact we accept moderate doctrines to an greater degree.:

Well, that's kind of what I was hinting at. This issue is a human behavior, not the result of a political system (something Charles would strawman). I'm just saying that I don't want people to be negatively impacted by libertarianism simply because there are some self-proclaimed libertarians who act like snobs, and I don't want to associate with snobby libertarians just because we happen agree politically and/or economically.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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7/9/2011 3:31:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/9/2011 3:24:10 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 7/9/2011 3:14:46 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
It's nothing to worry about, every 30 to 50 years humanity comes up with an smug, elitist, and unfeasible doctrine to embrace, after a few years it dissipates and gets replaced with something else that is equally as smug, elitist, and unfeasible. The only doctrine to ever actually happen in reality is moderate doctrine but human behavior tends to make us deny the fact we accept moderate doctrines to an greater degree.:

Well, that's kind of what I was hinting at. This issue is a human behavior, not the result of a political system (something Charles would strawman). I'm just saying that I don't want people to be negatively impacted by libertarianism simply because there are some self-proclaimed libertarians who act like snobs, and I don't want to associate with snobby libertarians just because we happen agree politically and/or economically.

Since there are good people and snobs in all parties, you should only hope that people can understand and differentiate between the d!cks and the decent folk.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/9/2011 3:33:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
i wouldn't worry about liberalism evaporating from college campuses; i can safely say it is alive and thriving on most campuses.:

Agreed, but I've never seen it challenged like this. Libertarianism seems to be making a huge impact, for better or worse.

Second, every ideology has an extreme, so the left has it's extreme and the libertarians have theirs, but in personal characteristic, they are similar. Both are quite a bit self righteous and smug. Keep in mind the median age of those who hold these positions, and the characteristics of that age.:

An astute observation.

I don't think that there is so much to worry about, in fact i welcome the ancaps because at last there is balance to the leftist moonbats. Also, the ancaps argue from a position of reason and fact rather than emotion, which is somewhat refreshing.:

I can' argue any of that. Look at 'ole Pinko... If ever there was a poster child for someone who was the product of leftist propaganda (and didn't even know why he was defending his position), yet defected simply by reasoned argumentation, he's it. And I personally think he's better for it.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/9/2011 4:08:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/9/2011 3:33:06 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
i wouldn't worry about liberalism evaporating from college campuses; i can safely say it is alive and thriving on most campuses.:

Agreed, but I've never seen it challenged like this. Libertarianism seems to be making a huge impact, for better or worse.

Second, every ideology has an extreme, so the left has it's extreme and the libertarians have theirs, but in personal characteristic, they are similar. Both are quite a bit self righteous and smug. Keep in mind the median age of those who hold these positions, and the characteristics of that age.:

An astute observation.

I don't think that there is so much to worry about, in fact i welcome the ancaps because at last there is balance to the leftist moonbats. Also, the ancaps argue from a position of reason and fact rather than emotion, which is somewhat refreshing.:

I can' argue any of that. Look at 'ole Pinko... If ever there was a poster child for someone who was the product of leftist propaganda (and didn't even know why he was defending his position), yet defected simply by reasoned argumentation, he's it. And I personally think he's better for it.

Trust me, the libertarians are still in a very small minority on campus. I'm on UNH and PSU, and the other New Hampshire state school campuses all the time, and it reminds me of my days in Moscow.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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7/9/2011 4:50:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/9/2011 4:08:07 PM, innomen wrote:
At 7/9/2011 3:33:06 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
i wouldn't worry about liberalism evaporating from college campuses; i can safely say it is alive and thriving on most campuses.:

Agreed, but I've never seen it challenged like this. Libertarianism seems to be making a huge impact, for better or worse.

Second, every ideology has an extreme, so the left has it's extreme and the libertarians have theirs, but in personal characteristic, they are similar. Both are quite a bit self righteous and smug. Keep in mind the median age of those who hold these positions, and the characteristics of that age.:

An astute observation.

I don't think that there is so much to worry about, in fact i welcome the ancaps because at last there is balance to the leftist moonbats. Also, the ancaps argue from a position of reason and fact rather than emotion, which is somewhat refreshing.:

I can' argue any of that. Look at 'ole Pinko... If ever there was a poster child for someone who was the product of leftist propaganda (and didn't even know why he was defending his position), yet defected simply by reasoned argumentation, he's it. And I personally think he's better for it.

Trust me, the libertarians are still in a very small minority on campus. I'm on UNH and PSU, and the other New Hampshire state school campuses all the time, and it reminds me of my days in Moscow.

This. You can count my Northeastern liberal arts college in the mix as well. There's a few elitist libertarians, but you can probably count them on your fingers. That's to say nothing about the immense amount of libertarians on the internet though. Then again, I don't go around surveying everyones political beliefs so my "count" is by no means scientific.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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7/9/2011 5:35:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/9/2011 3:14:46 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
It's nothing to worry about, every 30 to 50 years humanity comes up with an smug, elitist, and unfeasible doctrine to embrace, after a few years it dissipates and gets replaced with something else that is equally as smug, elitist, and unfeasible. The only doctrine to ever actually happen in reality is moderate doctrine but human behavior tends to make us deny the fact we accept moderate doctrines to an greater degree.

Sounds suspiciously like the Golden mean fallacy.