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Those types of people

tornshoe92
Posts: 361
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1/2/2012 1:13:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
When casually arguing in the real world, I occasionally come across people (frequently among my friends) who will pull supposed information seemingly out of their anus (picture it, go ahead) and present it as fact. Usually it's something that they heard from a friend who, heard it from a friend who, heard it from another (you've been messin' around). Either that or it will just be a preconceived notion that they concluded was true because it seems right to them. The problem is, because of that kind of person's inclination to not check their facts, they seem to have an aversion to subjecting their views to critical thinking. My question is, what do you guys do in an argument with a person like that? I've been trying for a while to stay out of arguments with people like that but when they bring up arguments on Facebook or what-have-you, I really want to argue despite me knowing that it will be futile.
"Next time I see a little old lady going to church I am going kick her in the ovaries because she is personally responsible for this. Thanks Izbo." -C_N
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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1/2/2012 1:34:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/2/2012 1:13:00 AM, tornshoe92 wrote:
When casually arguing in the real world, I occasionally come across people (frequently among my friends) who will pull supposed information seemingly out of their anus (picture it, go ahead) and present it as fact. Usually it's something that they heard from a friend who, heard it from a friend who, heard it from another (you've been messin' around). Either that or it will just be a preconceived notion that they concluded was true because it seems right to them. The problem is, because of that kind of person's inclination to not check their facts, they seem to have an aversion to subjecting their views to critical thinking. My question is, what do you guys do in an argument with a person like that? I've been trying for a while to stay out of arguments with people like that but when they bring up arguments on Facebook or what-have-you, I really want to argue despite me knowing that it will be futile.

Ah see I've come across the same problem and have realized this: there is nothing worse than a combination of stupid and stubborn.

The only way to combat it is to crush them so thoroughly with logic and real facts and live with the satisfaction that you've won (even though they'll never admit it) or try to get them to concede the point. Either way it's not very satisfying...

Because in the end it is futile because people who can't think critically or use enough forsight to look up statistics can't be expected to deal with your higher thinking.

I don't know. I argue anyways and walk away feeling superior (which is probably bad) but I never back down from an argument because my opponent is stubborn or stupid.

Fight the good fight.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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1/2/2012 5:34:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/2/2012 1:34:24 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 1/2/2012 1:13:00 AM, tornshoe92 wrote:
When casually arguing in the real world, I occasionally come across people (frequently among my friends) who will pull supposed information seemingly out of their anus (picture it, go ahead) and present it as fact. Usually it's something that they heard from a friend who, heard it from a friend who, heard it from another (you've been messin' around). Either that or it will just be a preconceived notion that they concluded was true because it seems right to them. The problem is, because of that kind of person's inclination to not check their facts, they seem to have an aversion to subjecting their views to critical thinking. My question is, what do you guys do in an argument with a person like that? I've been trying for a while to stay out of arguments with people like that but when they bring up arguments on Facebook or what-have-you, I really want to argue despite me knowing that it will be futile.

Ah see I've come across the same problem and have realized this: there is nothing worse than a combination of stupid and stubborn.

The only way to combat it is to crush them so thoroughly with logic and real facts and live with the satisfaction that you've won (even though they'll never admit it) or try to get them to concede the point. Either way it's not very satisfying...

Because in the end it is futile because people who can't think critically or use enough forsight to look up statistics can't be expected to deal with your higher thinking.

I don't know. I argue anyways and walk away feeling superior (which is probably bad) but I never back down from an argument because my opponent is stubborn or stupid.

Fight the good fight.

This is why I hate arguing unexpected topics, especially in real life. None of the information that is presented can be immediately verified, even though it is often times false.
My immediate response to this is "Want to formally debate it"?. 99% of the time, they say no. Trust me, use that response and it will work.
If they say yes, get them to create a DDO account lol.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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1/2/2012 5:47:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/2/2012 1:13:00 AM, tornshoe92 wrote:
When casually arguing in the real world, I occasionally come across people (frequently among my friends) who will pull supposed information seemingly out of their anus (picture it, go ahead) and present it as fact. Usually it's something that they heard from a friend who, heard it from a friend who, heard it from another (you've been messin' around). Either that or it will just be a preconceived notion that they concluded was true because it seems right to them. The problem is, because of that kind of person's inclination to not check their facts, they seem to have an aversion to subjecting their views to critical thinking. My question is, what do you guys do in an argument with a person like that? I've been trying for a while to stay out of arguments with people like that but when they bring up arguments on Facebook or what-have-you, I really want to argue despite me knowing that it will be futile.

Lol, what are you talking about, it's 2012 already.

There are two solutions to this. I use both.

First, you only discuss topics for which you have some background. Sure, you can remain open to new information and allowing your perceptions to evolve according to what you learn about the subject, but generally speaking, a little knowledge and paying attention goes a long way for spotting basura. Maybe I'm just an @sshole, but I call people on it all the time. In fact, most people I'm close with do just the same.

The second one, which is most effective, is to whip out your Droid or HTC or iPhone or whatever and Google that shtt. If you have a last or this generation smartphone, that shtt will take under a minute. If someone says something dubious, just be like "whaaaat -- yeah right, I have to learn more about this" and look it up. Or, you can just be like, "I call bs;" whatever works for you.
annyjohn
Posts: 5
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1/2/2012 11:53:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yeah i know that there is nothing worse than a combination of stupid and stubborn.
People are so selfish sometimes that they don't even think that some are so close to them..
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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1/6/2012 1:58:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/2/2012 1:13:00 AM, tornshoe92 wrote:
When casually arguing in the real world, I occasionally come across people (frequently among my friends) who will pull supposed information seemingly out of their anus (picture it, go ahead) and present it as fact. Usually it's something that they heard from a friend who, heard it from a friend who, heard it from another (you've been messin' around). Either that or it will just be a preconceived notion that they concluded was true because it seems right to them. The problem is, because of that kind of person's inclination to not check their facts, they seem to have an aversion to subjecting their views to critical thinking. My question is, what do you guys do in an argument with a person like that? I've been trying for a while to stay out of arguments with people like that but when they bring up arguments on Facebook or what-have-you, I really want to argue despite me knowing that it will be futile.

Bolded words made me lol.

Anyway, I wouldn't say this is a "type" of person so much as I would say it is most if not all people. This is a common mistake humans make in thinking. Critical thinking is a muscle that might be stronger in some than others but everyone can exercise it and most can get very good at it. (obviously this is at the exclusion of people with mental disorders beyond their control.) People generally tend to revert to preconceived notions. People generally tend to revert to that story their friend told them or that thing that happened to them once that stuck out in their memory. It's more persuasive and powerful to them than a bunch of statistical numbers you might spew out. I would even go so far as to say this state of stupidity (stubbornness is a bonus) is a somewhat natural state. You either monitor it, exercise your critical thinking skills or you don't- And you stay in humanity's natural state- stupid and uncritical for the most part. The problem with these people is that they don't fvcking read books and/or think enough about their own beliefs.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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1/6/2012 2:07:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh, I didn't answer your question.

If they are quick to anger, disengage.

If they are not, try reasoning with them. I sometimes like to try something my boyfriend taught me. Sometimes it shows them the errors of their ways. Ask them, "What evidence could I give you that would prove to you that I'm correct?-even if the evidence seems unlikely or inconceivable." If they say, "nothing," then they are being unreasonable and you should just quit. Especially if it is not obvious to them that they are being unreasonable, then that is a huge problem. They are obviously not interested in truth but instead in being right and winning the argument. If they give you an answer, I'd say it's fairly safe to continue. Use your judgment. But if they give you that nothing- you know your efforts are futile and you may as well save your breath.

Sometimes, if they say "nothing" but still seem interested in the discussion, they're not being hostile, and I'm bored, I'll continue. Revel in the insanity. Why not? It's better than a sitcom.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.