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What is up with 16k!?

1dustpelt
Posts: 1,970
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4/29/2012 4:17:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Seriously, his religion: atheist -> agnostic -> atheist, now CHRISTIAN!?
Abortion: Con for a long time -> Pro -> Con -> Pro -> Con again!?

He is like Mitt Romney, always changing his mind
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RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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5/1/2012 4:33:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's not a virtue to have an ideology that resists all facts and experience. For a young person to latch on to something and never question it is especially unfortunate.

The knock against Romney amounts to saying that what the country needs is an ideologue who never changes his mind, never compromises with opponents, never considers new ideas, and never considers the nuances of a situation that effects a decision. President Obama is a role model for that, but it's not a good thing. What is important it to have an explanation about why a position has changed or why it was wise to compromise.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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5/1/2012 4:44:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/1/2012 4:33:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
It's not a virtue to have an ideology that resists all facts and experience. For a young person to latch on to something and never question it is especially unfortunate.

The knock against Romney amounts to saying that what the country needs is an ideologue who never changes his mind, never compromises with opponents, never considers new ideas, and never considers the nuances of a situation that effects a decision. President Obama is a role model for that, but it's not a good thing. What is important it to have an explanation about why a position has changed or why it was wise to compromise.

To be fair, Romney doesn't change his positions based on personal beliefs or because he's always growing and learning. His positions are simply which side of the fence get's him the most votes and he panders with the best of them.
I agree you can grow and learn and change perspectives and positions, however this is not Mitt Romney, if tomorrow a poll came out that said 90% of Republicans were staunchly pro-choice, Mitt Romney would be pro-choice.
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Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/1/2012 5:03:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/1/2012 4:44:30 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 5/1/2012 4:33:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
It's not a virtue to have an ideology that resists all facts and experience. For a young person to latch on to something and never question it is especially unfortunate.

The knock against Romney amounts to saying that what the country needs is an ideologue who never changes his mind, never compromises with opponents, never considers new ideas, and never considers the nuances of a situation that effects a decision. President Obama is a role model for that, but it's not a good thing. What is important it to have an explanation about why a position has changed or why it was wise to compromise.

To be fair, Romney doesn't change his positions based on personal beliefs or because he's always growing and learning. His positions are simply which side of the fence get's him the most votes and he panders with the best of them.
I agree you can grow and learn and change perspectives and positions, however this is not Mitt Romney, if tomorrow a poll came out that said 90% of Republicans were staunchly pro-choice, Mitt Romney would be pro-choice.

If 90% of Republicans were pro-choice then the republicans will have became democrats again.
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lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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5/1/2012 5:10:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/1/2012 5:03:19 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 5/1/2012 4:44:30 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 5/1/2012 4:33:53 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
It's not a virtue to have an ideology that resists all facts and experience. For a young person to latch on to something and never question it is especially unfortunate.

The knock against Romney amounts to saying that what the country needs is an ideologue who never changes his mind, never compromises with opponents, never considers new ideas, and never considers the nuances of a situation that effects a decision. President Obama is a role model for that, but it's not a good thing. What is important it to have an explanation about why a position has changed or why it was wise to compromise.

To be fair, Romney doesn't change his positions based on personal beliefs or because he's always growing and learning. His positions are simply which side of the fence get's him the most votes and he panders with the best of them.
I agree you can grow and learn and change perspectives and positions, however this is not Mitt Romney, if tomorrow a poll came out that said 90% of Republicans were staunchly pro-choice, Mitt Romney would be pro-choice.

If 90% of Republicans were pro-choice then the republicans will have became democrats again.

That's the only issue separating a Republican from a Democrat?
Actually you're right, they don't disagree on anything of substance.
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Ixaax
Posts: 7
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5/1/2012 10:48:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
WHOA HOLLUP!

You call a man out for being open minded?
Hell, The man deserves a medal, watching all that Fox and bein able to change his mind.
He's piratically an endangered species! I mean, sh*t, if nobody change their views, we all pawns stuck on a chess board, can only move forward, not going anywhere.

Romney, he (might) change for PR and votes, but 16K got no reason to fish!
Leave a man alone, hell, he's the one who got it right.
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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5/1/2012 10:48:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/1/2012 10:48:23 PM, Ixaax wrote:
WHOA HOLLUP!

You call a man out for being open minded?
Hell, The man deserves a medal, watching all that Fox and bein able to change his mind.
He's piratically an endangered species! I mean, sh*t, if nobody change their views, we all pawns stuck on a chess board, can only move forward, not going anywhere.

Romney, he (might) change for PR and votes, but 16K got no reason to fish!
Leave a man alone, hell, he's the one who got it right.

Kfc
kfc
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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5/1/2012 10:58:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
While gradually changing ones mind as you grow and learn is a genuinely good thing... changing it like this just makes you lose credibility.

Christian---> Atheist---> Christian

That's not an easy thing to do in a short time. This either means

a) he grows and learns quickly and all the time so that his views constantly change on a solid basis

or

b) he doesn't know what he truly wants

both are plausible and okay however they damage his fortitude in his beliefs at the moment.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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5/1/2012 11:02:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/1/2012 10:58:07 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
While gradually changing ones mind as you grow and learn is a genuinely good thing... changing it like this just makes you lose credibility.

Christian---> Atheist---> Christian

That's not an easy thing to do in a short time. This either means

a) he grows and learns quickly and all the time so that his views constantly change on a solid basis

I was reading a few debates here (many from conradiction and kaytar hero) that made the second jump. The first jump was many of the debates by unitedandy (POE) and a few of microsucks arguments.


or

b) he doesn't know what he truly wants

both are plausible and okay however they damage his fortitude in his beliefs at the moment.
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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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5/1/2012 11:03:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/1/2012 10:48:23 PM, Ixaax wrote:
WHOA HOLLUP!

You call a man out for being open minded?
Hell, The man deserves a medal, watching all that Fox and bein able to change his mind.
He's piratically an endangered species! I mean, sh*t, if nobody change their views, we all pawns stuck on a chess board, can only move forward, not going anywhere.

Romney, he (might) change for PR and votes, but 16K got no reason to fish!
Leave a man alone, hell, he's the one who got it right.

. :D
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Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/1/2012 11:18:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What is with making threads directed at specific individuals? That's what I wanna know.
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CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
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5/2/2012 10:49:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Maybe he is open minded.
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Zaradi
Posts: 14,126
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5/2/2012 10:57:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/2/2012 10:49:38 AM, CrazyPerson wrote:
Maybe he is open minded.

Maybe he's a strong black woman who don't need no man!
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Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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5/2/2012 11:01:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/1/2012 10:48:23 PM, Ixaax wrote:
WHOA HOLLUP!

You call a man out for being open minded?
Hell, The man deserves a medal, watching all that Fox and bein able to change his mind.
He's piratically an endangered species! I mean, sh*t, if nobody change their views, we all pawns stuck on a chess board, can only move forward, not going anywhere.

Y'arrr. Tis be true. There be not so many of us narrghh'days.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/2/2012 9:05:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There are people who have an ideology who are pragmatic, 16k may be one such person.

I am a pragmatic progressive. I realize that free trade with some government assistance (job training programs, education initiatives) is ultimately the best path, and tariffs have a strong negative effect.

A pragmatic conservative could realize that universal health care is ultimately the best route for our health care system (they exist out there).

Just because somebody is a pragmatist doesn't make them less "pure" in their ideology. It just makes them more realistic, believable, likable, and less rigid.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

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phantom
Posts: 6,774
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5/2/2012 9:07:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/29/2012 4:17:49 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Seriously, his religion: atheist -> agnostic -> atheist, now CHRISTIAN!?
Abortion: Con for a long time -> Pro -> Con -> Pro -> Con again!?

He is like Mitt Romney, always changing his mind

It's called having an open mind, and way to few people have it.
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imabench
Posts: 21,229
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5/2/2012 9:37:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/2/2012 9:07:16 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/29/2012 4:17:49 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Seriously, his religion: atheist -> agnostic -> atheist, now CHRISTIAN!?
Abortion: Con for a long time -> Pro -> Con -> Pro -> Con again!?

He is like Mitt Romney, always changing his mind

It's called having an open mind, and way to few people have it.

he went from sh*tting on people for believing in God........ to believing in God........
We are all for having an open mind but like someone said, flip flopping
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THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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5/2/2012 9:50:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/2/2012 9:37:20 PM, imabench wrote:
At 5/2/2012 9:07:16 PM, phantom wrote:
At 4/29/2012 4:17:49 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Seriously, his religion: atheist -> agnostic -> atheist, now CHRISTIAN!?
Abortion: Con for a long time -> Pro -> Con -> Pro -> Con again!?

He is like Mitt Romney, always changing his mind

It's called having an open mind, and way to few people have it.

he went from sh*tting on people for believing in God........ to believing in God........
We are all for having an open mind but like someone said, flip flopping

nah, 16k just has multiple personalities...
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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5/3/2012 12:38:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/1/2012 4:44:30 PM, lewis20 wrote:

To be fair, Romney doesn't change his positions based on personal beliefs or because he's always growing and learning. His positions are simply which side of the fence get's him the most votes and he panders with the best of them.

I agree you can grow and learn and change perspectives and positions, however this is not Mitt Romney, if tomorrow a poll came out that said 90% of Republicans were staunchly pro-choice, Mitt Romney would be pro-choice.

why do you say you are being fair? Obvious you simply made up a story that pleases you. You claim to know what Romney is thinking, but clearly you don't know. I assume you are nota close associate of Romney who knows his thought processes.

I think there is some truth in supposing that Romney started out without many firm opinions on many political issues. That's typical of business people who are very concerned about issues like regulation and taxation, but have never thought much about health care or gun control or whatever. I can tell you from my experience that geeky Silicon Valley CEOs could on many issues be out-debated by mediocre DDO. It was also evident from the awkwardness he had in discussing non-economic issues back when he started in politics.

He has come up on the curve substantially, but I don't think he is quite at speed on social issues. That's fine with me. What the country needs is someone who knows how to function as an effective executive, understands free enterprise, and is worried about the economy above all else. President Obama has none of that.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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5/3/2012 12:43:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/1/2012 5:03:19 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:

If 90% of Republicans were pro-choice then the republicans will have became democrats again.

Nonsense. Abortion is among the least important issues facing the country, and Republicans are quite uniform that they ought to be resolved by the states. For the record, Barry Goldwater, as conservative and Republican as they come, was pro-choice. It's not a litmus issue. Free enterprise is the real test. If a Republican doesn't believe in free enterprise, then he's a Democrat.