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Defend Mandatory College English Classes

Oryus
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5/10/2012 3:56:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Please. Somebody defend mandatory English classes at the college level which are not specifically devoted to writing. I can understand writing classes- it is a skill that is essential for school and many other environments. But Intro to Fiction? Really? Why? Why not music too? How about tap-dancing? Why are poetry, plays, and fiction so important? When all you're learning about is poetry, plays, and fiction- what good does that do you which music, tap-dancing, or other similar things wouldn't?

I'm making this thread because I have to write a 5-7 page paper on a novel, defending my subjective opinion of this book, using subjective opinions from at least two academic sources. Really? .....REALLY?! Who cares???

Please tell me why this is justifiably mandatory and not just a waste of my time and money. I'm inclined to think colleges just want more money in making this class mandatory. Please tell me why I'm being a cynical a$$hole and should just shut up because I want to stop.... but I just can't stop hating this class and hating my college for requiring it.

If you agree with me, that's cool too. But I just wish I were wrong about this.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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5/10/2012 4:26:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No defense. I don't even think English should exist as a major. It's 100% useless.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 4:38:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 4:26:47 PM, bluesteel wrote:
No defense. I don't even think English should exist as a major. It's 100% useless.

Sigh :(
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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5/10/2012 4:44:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
lol. I recently took Advanced English 9, but my teacher's grading system was horrible. It basically gave short assignments (worth 4 points) the same weight as an actual quiz. Me and probably half the class got a B, which is bad for me and many others in that class cause we are All A students (so far).

But no I can't defend the English classes.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
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5/10/2012 4:48:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If it's a Liberal Arts school, then yes, English is going to be a necessity.
If not, I really don't care.
turn down for h'what
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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5/10/2012 4:48:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I had a really good experience with English classes in college. I took three of them and all of them, I left feeling better and enjoying them. Maybe it depends on the instructor too. I'll take the challenge.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 4:49:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why is English a necessity for even liberal arts majors?

What does Fiction have to do with Archaeology?
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 4:50:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 4:49:40 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I can't make an argument right now but feel free to send me a challenge anytime. I'll wait till I am free to accept it.

hahaha! Yeah, right. I'm begging people to prove me wrong. I don't want to be correct.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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5/10/2012 4:53:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 4:50:48 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 4:49:40 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I can't make an argument right now but feel free to send me a challenge anytime. I'll wait till I am free to accept it.

hahaha! Yeah, right. I'm begging people to prove me wrong. I don't want to be correct.

I am FOR english classes. So, I can prove you wrong.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 4:56:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://29.media.tumblr.com...

Rolling upon the mother fvcking ground laughing.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 4:56:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 4:53:23 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 5/10/2012 4:50:48 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 4:49:40 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I can't make an argument right now but feel free to send me a challenge anytime. I'll wait till I am free to accept it.

hahaha! Yeah, right. I'm begging people to prove me wrong. I don't want to be correct.

I am FOR english classes. So, I can prove you wrong.

Hm. Sounds like a terrible, terrible idea :)
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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5/10/2012 4:59:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 3:56:16 PM, Oryus wrote:
Please. Somebody defend mandatory English classes at the college level which are not specifically devoted to writing. I can understand writing classes- it is a skill that is essential for school and many other environments. But Intro to Fiction? Really? Why? Why not music too? How about tap-dancing? Why are poetry, plays, and fiction so important? When all you're learning about is poetry, plays, and fiction- what good does that do you which music, tap-dancing, or other similar things wouldn't?

I'll give it my best :P

Depending on what your reading, literature can tell you more about society at the time when the book was written. For example, take a novel like Ragtime or the Great Gatsby. They both tell more about society for Ragtime in the early 19 teens. And for Great Gatsby in the 1920s.

But, if your not doing anything with English or with History, it's kinda useless....

And I also seriously hate your tone towards music. Musical theory, performance and composition (at a high level for all), intellectually wise, are well difficult. But, everyone has their own opinions.

English (or most other classes) is many times easier than Music. If you don't believe me, go out, buy a college level music theory text book, some blank staff paper, write a piano concerto, and play it. If you accomplish all that, you can tell me music is easy.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 5:09:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 4:59:37 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 3:56:16 PM, Oryus wrote:
Please. Somebody defend mandatory English classes at the college level which are not specifically devoted to writing. I can understand writing classes- it is a skill that is essential for school and many other environments. But Intro to Fiction? Really? Why? Why not music too? How about tap-dancing? Why are poetry, plays, and fiction so important? When all you're learning about is poetry, plays, and fiction- what good does that do you which music, tap-dancing, or other similar things wouldn't?

I'll give it my best :P

Depending on what your reading, literature can tell you more about society at the time when the book was written. For example, take a novel like Ragtime or the Great Gatsby. They both tell more about society for Ragtime in the early 19 teens. And for Great Gatsby in the 1920s.

But, if your not doing anything with English or with History, it's kinda useless....

And I also seriously hate your tone towards music. Musical theory, performance and composition (at a high level for all), intellectually wise, are well difficult. But, everyone has their own opinions.

English (or most other classes) is many times easier than Music. If you don't believe me, go out, buy a college level music theory text book, some blank staff paper, write a piano concerto, and play it. If you accomplish all that, you can tell me music is easy.

Hmmm... never said music (or anything, for that matter) was... easy??
I said if you're learning about music, all you're learning about is music. When you learn about fiction, all you're learning about is fiction and, oftentimes, a novice view of a time's social/political issues in which case- you're not really learning facts about the society at the time but rather, someone else's opinions about the time which may or may not be true to real life. And if we're going to require fiction/plays/poetry be taught- why not a music listening class? Why is literature so special? They're both subjective.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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5/10/2012 5:31:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 5:09:00 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 4:59:37 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 3:56:16 PM, Oryus wrote:
Please. Somebody defend mandatory English classes at the college level which are not specifically devoted to writing. I can understand writing classes- it is a skill that is essential for school and many other environments. But Intro to Fiction? Really? Why? Why not music too? How about tap-dancing? Why are poetry, plays, and fiction so important? When all you're learning about is poetry, plays, and fiction- what good does that do you which music, tap-dancing, or other similar things wouldn't?

I'll give it my best :P

Depending on what your reading, literature can tell you more about society at the time when the book was written. For example, take a novel like Ragtime or the Great Gatsby. They both tell more about society for Ragtime in the early 19 teens. And for Great Gatsby in the 1920s.

But, if your not doing anything with English or with History, it's kinda useless....

And I also seriously hate your tone towards music. Musical theory, performance and composition (at a high level for all), intellectually wise, are well difficult. But, everyone has their own opinions.

English (or most other classes) is many times easier than Music. If you don't believe me, go out, buy a college level music theory text book, some blank staff paper, write a piano concerto, and play it. If you accomplish all that, you can tell me music is easy.

Hmmm... never said music (or anything, for that matter) was... easy??
I said if you're learning about music, all you're learning about is music. When you learn about fiction, all you're learning about is fiction and, oftentimes, a novice view of a time's social/political issues in which case- you're not really learning facts about the society at the time but rather, someone else's opinions about the time which may or may not be true to real life. And if we're going to require fiction/plays/poetry be taught- why not a music listening class? Why is literature so special? They're both subjective.

When your learning about music yes you learn about music. When you learn about English....you learn about English, etc. Also, your entire complaint about literature is that it is subjective. What isn't subjective? Take history for example. Your reading a textbook written by a person who has a certain viewpoint of the matter. A communist is going to interpret history much differently than a capitalist. No one is giving a completely unbiased view of any matter. The only things which are not subjective would have to be math. (What's your major, by the way?)

And there actually is a music listening class. It's a major part of music theory. You listen to a sh!t ton of music and on the test you better remember the name (for major pieces)...at least remember who wrote it, and what style it is in.

Societal issues are better seen through works of literature. Unless you want to argue that Uncle Tom's Cabin has absolutely no importance in pre-civil war American society. How about The Jungle? Books cause cultural revolutions in some cases. Such as in the case of On The Road. In other instances they are just important. What about The Clansman? Or Thomas Paine's Common Sense? For someone studying religion objectively, The Bible, the Quran, and the Book of Mormon (to name 3) become important pieces of literature.

Are books such as Uncle Tom's Cabin or On the Road so unimportant that they do not warrant studying?
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 5:48:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 5:31:56 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 5:09:00 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 4:59:37 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 3:56:16 PM, Oryus wrote:
Please. Somebody defend mandatory English classes at the college level which are not specifically devoted to writing. I can understand writing classes- it is a skill that is essential for school and many other environments. But Intro to Fiction? Really? Why? Why not music too? How about tap-dancing? Why are poetry, plays, and fiction so important? When all you're learning about is poetry, plays, and fiction- what good does that do you which music, tap-dancing, or other similar things wouldn't?

I'll give it my best :P

Depending on what your reading, literature can tell you more about society at the time when the book was written. For example, take a novel like Ragtime or the Great Gatsby. They both tell more about society for Ragtime in the early 19 teens. And for Great Gatsby in the 1920s.

But, if your not doing anything with English or with History, it's kinda useless....

And I also seriously hate your tone towards music. Musical theory, performance and composition (at a high level for all), intellectually wise, are well difficult. But, everyone has their own opinions.

English (or most other classes) is many times easier than Music. If you don't believe me, go out, buy a college level music theory text book, some blank staff paper, write a piano concerto, and play it. If you accomplish all that, you can tell me music is easy.

Hmmm... never said music (or anything, for that matter) was... easy??
I said if you're learning about music, all you're learning about is music. When you learn about fiction, all you're learning about is fiction and, oftentimes, a novice view of a time's social/political issues in which case- you're not really learning facts about the society at the time but rather, someone else's opinions about the time which may or may not be true to real life. And if we're going to require fiction/plays/poetry be taught- why not a music listening class? Why is literature so special? They're both subjective.

When your learning about music yes you learn about music. When you learn about English....you learn about English, etc. Also, your entire complaint about literature is that it is subjective. What isn't subjective? Take history for example. Your reading a textbook written by a person who has a certain viewpoint of the matter. A communist is going to interpret history much differently than a capitalist. No one is giving a completely unbiased view of any matter. The only things which are not subjective would have to be math. (What's your major, by the way?)

Yes, most, if not all things, are subjective. But don't you think it's a little dishonest to compare the degree of subjectivity in the things you learn in a history class with the degree of subjectivity learned from things in a Charles Dickens novel? At least in a history class, you receive the opinions of experts who can back up their claims. With a novel, usually, you receive the opinion of... a person who is an expert on writing fiction. So what? Why is their opinion so important that it is mandatory for me to learn it?
And there actually is a music listening class. It's a major part of music theory. You listen to a sh!t ton of music and on the test you better remember the name (for major pieces)...at least remember who wrote it, and what style it is in.

I'm aware of it's existence. But why isn't it mandatory and fiction is? For that matter, why aren't we required to take classes and learn about famous paintings? Famous paintings can arguably have just as much impact on a culture and be just as notable. Why not movies? Why are fictional books special?

Societal issues are better seen through works of literature. Unless you want to argue that Uncle Tom's Cabin has absolutely no importance in pre-civil war American society. How about The Jungle? Books cause cultural revolutions in some cases. Such as in the case of On The Road. In other instances they are just important. What about The Clansman? Or Thomas Paine's Common Sense? For someone studying religion objectively, The Bible, the Quran, and the Book of Mormon (to name 3) become important pieces of literature.

Are books such as Uncle Tom's Cabin or On the Road so unimportant that they do not warrant studying?

There, thank you. There is a solid reason. But it's just a reason we should read highly influential and revolutionary literature. I haven't read anything in this fiction class that was revolutionary for anything other than fiction- and even then, only a couple of them were.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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5/10/2012 6:12:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 5:48:39 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 5:31:56 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 5:09:00 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 4:59:37 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 3:56:16 PM, Oryus wrote:
Please. Somebody defend mandatory English classes at the college level which are not specifically devoted to writing. I can understand writing classes- it is a skill that is essential for school and many other environments. But Intro to Fiction? Really? Why? Why not music too? How about tap-dancing? Why are poetry, plays, and fiction so important? When all you're learning about is poetry, plays, and fiction- what good does that do you which music, tap-dancing, or other similar things wouldn't?

I'll give it my best :P

Depending on what your reading, literature can tell you more about society at the time when the book was written. For example, take a novel like Ragtime or the Great Gatsby. They both tell more about society for Ragtime in the early 19 teens. And for Great Gatsby in the 1920s.

But, if your not doing anything with English or with History, it's kinda useless....

And I also seriously hate your tone towards music. Musical theory, performance and composition (at a high level for all), intellectually wise, are well difficult. But, everyone has their own opinions.

English (or most other classes) is many times easier than Music. If you don't believe me, go out, buy a college level music theory text book, some blank staff paper, write a piano concerto, and play it. If you accomplish all that, you can tell me music is easy.

Hmmm... never said music (or anything, for that matter) was... easy??
I said if you're learning about music, all you're learning about is music. When you learn about fiction, all you're learning about is fiction and, oftentimes, a novice view of a time's social/political issues in which case- you're not really learning facts about the society at the time but rather, someone else's opinions about the time which may or may not be true to real life. And if we're going to require fiction/plays/poetry be taught- why not a music listening class? Why is literature so special? They're both subjective.

When your learning about music yes you learn about music. When you learn about English....you learn about English, etc. Also, your entire complaint about literature is that it is subjective. What isn't subjective? Take history for example. Your reading a textbook written by a person who has a certain viewpoint of the matter. A communist is going to interpret history much differently than a capitalist. No one is giving a completely unbiased view of any matter. The only things which are not subjective would have to be math. (What's your major, by the way?)

Yes, most, if not all things, are subjective. But don't you think it's a little dishonest to compare the degree of subjectivity in the things you learn in a history class with the degree of subjectivity learned from things in a Charles Dickens novel? At least in a history class, you receive the opinions of experts who can back up their claims. With a novel, usually, you receive the opinion of... a person who is an expert on writing fiction. So what? Why is their opinion so important that it is mandatory for me to learn it?

Your right and wrong. :P A historian may be able to tell a person in great detail exactly what caused that economic downturn in the 1700s, why this happened or that happened, etc. But, in many cases, when it comes to society, a textbook would reference literature. I mean, take my United States History Textbook, in almost every chapter you find some reference to a piece of major literature. Literature tells you more about society and how the ordinary person felt. History tells the facts and details about what caused what.

And there actually is a music listening class. It's a major part of music theory. You listen to a sh!t ton of music and on the test you better remember the name (for major pieces)...at least remember who wrote it, and what style it is in.

I'm aware of it's existence. But why isn't it mandatory and fiction is? For that matter, why aren't we required to take classes and learn about famous paintings? Famous paintings can arguably have just as much impact on a culture and be just as notable. Why not movies? Why are fictional books special?

Because it takes a great deal of training to be able to pick out the difference between a Baroque piece and a Classical piece. Many people just do not have the ability to listen to music and understand what makes a piece Romantic or Impressionistic. Famous paintings can be extraordinarily important. What caused the painter to paint the piece is important. This would be called Art History. Movies have not been around long enough. Movies are a relatively modern invention.


Societal issues are better seen through works of literature. Unless you want to argue that Uncle Tom's Cabin has absolutely no importance in pre-civil war American society. How about The Jungle? Books cause cultural revolutions in some cases. Such as in the case of On The Road. In other instances they are just important. What about The Clansman? Or Thomas Paine's Common Sense? For someone studying religion objectively, The Bible, the Quran, and the Book of Mormon (to name 3) become important pieces of literature.

Are books such as Uncle Tom's Cabin or On the Road so unimportant that they do not warrant studying?

There, thank you. There is a solid reason. But it's just a reason we should read highly influential and revolutionary literature. I haven't read anything in this fiction class that was revolutionary for anything other than fiction- and even then, only a couple of them were.

Hmmm....what books are you reading? Are you studying modern literature? British lit? French lit? American lit? World Lit? I mean a fictional novel like Clockers may seem stupid (its about drug gangs in the 1990s) but, it actual has a good point to make: the War on Poverty is failing. (I'd suggest reading it if you have the time). It may not be influential in the sense that it began an entire cultural movement, but, it stresses some important themes. Plainsong is another book (this is about a small town, if I recall correctly, in Kansas) it has great things (and bad things) to say about humanity. It never sparked any cultural revolution.

The point is, good literature can have highly philosophical themes. Figuring out the point an author is trying to say can be very beneficial in the long run. Analyzing good literature can improve your analytic skills in all areas. It changes up what your brain is doing.

Most, actually all of, the ones I listed were important to American History not as much for the rest of the world.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 6:26:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 6:12:54 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 5:48:39 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 5:31:56 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 5:09:00 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 4:59:37 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 3:56:16 PM, Oryus wrote:
Please. Somebody defend mandatory English classes at the college level which are not specifically devoted to writing. I can understand writing classes- it is a skill that is essential for school and many other environments. But Intro to Fiction? Really? Why? Why not music too? How about tap-dancing? Why are poetry, plays, and fiction so important? When all you're learning about is poetry, plays, and fiction- what good does that do you which music, tap-dancing, or other similar things wouldn't?

I'll give it my best :P

Depending on what your reading, literature can tell you more about society at the time when the book was written. For example, take a novel like Ragtime or the Great Gatsby. They both tell more about society for Ragtime in the early 19 teens. And for Great Gatsby in the 1920s.

But, if your not doing anything with English or with History, it's kinda useless....

And I also seriously hate your tone towards music. Musical theory, performance and composition (at a high level for all), intellectually wise, are well difficult. But, everyone has their own opinions.

English (or most other classes) is many times easier than Music. If you don't believe me, go out, buy a college level music theory text book, some blank staff paper, write a piano concerto, and play it. If you accomplish all that, you can tell me music is easy.

Hmmm... never said music (or anything, for that matter) was... easy??
I said if you're learning about music, all you're learning about is music. When you learn about fiction, all you're learning about is fiction and, oftentimes, a novice view of a time's social/political issues in which case- you're not really learning facts about the society at the time but rather, someone else's opinions about the time which may or may not be true to real life. And if we're going to require fiction/plays/poetry be taught- why not a music listening class? Why is literature so special? They're both subjective.

When your learning about music yes you learn about music. When you learn about English....you learn about English, etc. Also, your entire complaint about literature is that it is subjective. What isn't subjective? Take history for example. Your reading a textbook written by a person who has a certain viewpoint of the matter. A communist is going to interpret history much differently than a capitalist. No one is giving a completely unbiased view of any matter. The only things which are not subjective would have to be math. (What's your major, by the way?)

Yes, most, if not all things, are subjective. But don't you think it's a little dishonest to compare the degree of subjectivity in the things you learn in a history class with the degree of subjectivity learned from things in a Charles Dickens novel? At least in a history class, you receive the opinions of experts who can back up their claims. With a novel, usually, you receive the opinion of... a person who is an expert on writing fiction. So what? Why is their opinion so important that it is mandatory for me to learn it?

Your right and wrong. :P A historian may be able to tell a person in great detail exactly what caused that economic downturn in the 1700s, why this happened or that happened, etc. But, in many cases, when it comes to society, a textbook would reference literature. I mean, take my United States History Textbook, in almost every chapter you find some reference to a piece of major literature. Literature tells you more about society and how the ordinary person felt. History tells the facts and details about what caused what.

Ok, I would grant that. People had feelings and fiction may be the History of Feelings, so-to-speak. Understandable.
And there actually is a music listening class. It's a major part of music theory. You listen to a sh!t ton of music and on the test you better remember the name (for major pieces)...at least remember who wrote it, and what style it is in.

I'm aware of it's existence. But why isn't it mandatory and fiction is? For that matter, why aren't we required to take classes and learn about famous paintings? Famous paintings can arguably have just as much impact on a culture and be just as notable. Why not movies? Why are fictional books special?

Because it takes a great deal of training to be able to pick out the difference between a Baroque piece and a Classical piece. Many people just do not have the ability to listen to music and understand what makes a piece Romantic or Impressionistic. Famous paintings can be extraordinarily important. What caused the painter to paint the piece is important. This would be called Art History. Movies have not been around long enough. Movies are a relatively modern invention.

Indeed, indeed, indeed.

Societal issues are better seen through works of literature. Unless you want to argue that Uncle Tom's Cabin has absolutely no importance in pre-civil war American society. How about The Jungle? Books cause cultural revolutions in some cases. Such as in the case of On The Road. In other instances they are just important. What about The Clansman? Or Thomas Paine's Common Sense? For someone studying religion objectively, The Bible, the Quran, and the Book of Mormon (to name 3) become important pieces of literature.

Are books such as Uncle Tom's Cabin or On the Road so unimportant that they do not warrant studying?

There, thank you. There is a solid reason. But it's just a reason we should read highly influential and revolutionary literature. I haven't read anything in this fiction class that was revolutionary for anything other than fiction- and even then, only a couple of them were.

Hmmm....what books are you reading? Are you studying modern literature? British lit? French lit? American lit? World Lit? I mean a fictional novel like Clockers may seem stupid (its about drug gangs in the 1990s) but, it actual has a good point to make: the War on Poverty is failing. (I'd suggest reading it if you have the time). It may not be influential in the sense that it began an entire cultural movement, but, it stresses some important themes. Plainsong is another book (this is about a small town, if I recall correctly, in Kansas) it has great things (and bad things) to say about humanity. It never sparked any cultural revolution.

The point is, good literature can have highly philosophical themes. Figuring out the point an author is trying to say can be very beneficial in the long run. Analyzing good literature can improve your analytic skills in all areas. It changes up what your brain is doing.

Most, actually all of, the ones I listed were important to American History not as much for the rest of the world.

Modern and Victorian literature (unfortunately).
I would accept that novels often have important themes. No doubt about that at all- there are countless novels that I love very much. I just don't understand what it has to do with what I'm studying- archaeology.

Very good response. You've convinced me that intro to fiction is important. I'm still not totally convinced it should be a mandatory college class, but nonetheless, you've made me feel slightly less cynical. :)

Would anyone contest what he has said?
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 6:30:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In particular, my interest is in world prehistory. So that makes all literature pretty much useless ;)
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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5/10/2012 6:44:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 6:30:06 PM, Oryus wrote:
In particular, my interest is in world prehistory. So that makes all literature pretty much useless ;)

lol...yea...literature not to useful to explain anything before there was literature....

It's still important written history though.
Oryus
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5/10/2012 6:47:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 6:44:48 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:30:06 PM, Oryus wrote:
In particular, my interest is in world prehistory. So that makes all literature pretty much useless ;)

lol...yea...literature not to useful to explain anything before there was literature....

It's still important written history though.

hehe you put forth a good argument. I'm glad to have heard it. I might now be able to muster up the willpower to write this dumba$$ paper.

Thanks :P
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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5/10/2012 6:50:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 6:47:25 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:44:48 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:30:06 PM, Oryus wrote:
In particular, my interest is in world prehistory. So that makes all literature pretty much useless ;)

lol...yea...literature not to useful to explain anything before there was literature....

It's still important written history though.

hehe you put forth a good argument. I'm glad to have heard it. I might now be able to muster up the willpower to write this dumba$$ paper.

Thanks :P

haha the paper can't be that bad....just use lots and lots and lots of quotes :D

And no problem :P glad to help
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 6:52:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 6:50:00 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:47:25 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:44:48 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:30:06 PM, Oryus wrote:
In particular, my interest is in world prehistory. So that makes all literature pretty much useless ;)

lol...yea...literature not to useful to explain anything before there was literature....

It's still important written history though.

hehe you put forth a good argument. I'm glad to have heard it. I might now be able to muster up the willpower to write this dumba$$ paper.

Thanks :P

haha the paper can't be that bad....just use lots and lots and lots of quotes :D

hopefully, by the end of the paper, I will have a total of 1 page from all the many quotes I use. I'm so sick of this class but it's the very last assignment and I never have to take another English class again! blaaarrrghhghghg celebration! hahah XD
And no problem :P glad to help
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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5/10/2012 6:54:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Please tell me why this is justifiably mandatory and not just a waste of my time and money. I'm inclined to think colleges just want more money in making this class mandatory. Please tell me why I'm being a cynical a$$hole and should just shut up because I want to stop.... but I just can't stop hating this class and hating my college for requiring it.:

It's all part of the college scam to extort more money out of you than is necessary, I mean, to make you a more "well-rounded student."
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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5/10/2012 6:55:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 6:52:28 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:50:00 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:47:25 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:44:48 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:30:06 PM, Oryus wrote:
In particular, my interest is in world prehistory. So that makes all literature pretty much useless ;)

lol...yea...literature not to useful to explain anything before there was literature....

It's still important written history though.

hehe you put forth a good argument. I'm glad to have heard it. I might now be able to muster up the willpower to write this dumba$$ paper.

Thanks :P

haha the paper can't be that bad....just use lots and lots and lots of quotes :D

hopefully, by the end of the paper, I will have a total of 1 page from all the many quotes I use. I'm so sick of this class but it's the very last assignment and I never have to take another English class again! blaaarrrghhghghg celebration! hahah XD

haha well that's good at least :P Lit's boring....

And I'll bring the cake :D
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 7:01:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 6:54:38 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
Please tell me why this is justifiably mandatory and not just a waste of my time and money. I'm inclined to think colleges just want more money in making this class mandatory. Please tell me why I'm being a cynical a$$hole and should just shut up because I want to stop.... but I just can't stop hating this class and hating my college for requiring it.:

It's all part of the college scam to extort more money out of you than is necessary, I mean, to make you a more "well-rounded student."

EXACTLY!!!! Such a convenient excuse, isn't it?
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 7:02:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 6:55:06 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:52:28 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:50:00 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:47:25 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:44:48 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:30:06 PM, Oryus wrote:
In particular, my interest is in world prehistory. So that makes all literature pretty much useless ;)

lol...yea...literature not to useful to explain anything before there was literature....

It's still important written history though.

hehe you put forth a good argument. I'm glad to have heard it. I might now be able to muster up the willpower to write this dumba$$ paper.

Thanks :P

haha the paper can't be that bad....just use lots and lots and lots of quotes :D

hopefully, by the end of the paper, I will have a total of 1 page from all the many quotes I use. I'm so sick of this class but it's the very last assignment and I never have to take another English class again! blaaarrrghhghghg celebration! hahah XD

haha well that's good at least :P Lit's boring....

And I'll bring the cake :D

w00t! Make it chocolate-chocolate!! XD
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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5/10/2012 7:12:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 7:02:26 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:55:06 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:52:28 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:50:00 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:47:25 PM, Oryus wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:44:48 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
At 5/10/2012 6:30:06 PM, Oryus wrote:
In particular, my interest is in world prehistory. So that makes all literature pretty much useless ;)

lol...yea...literature not to useful to explain anything before there was literature....

It's still important written history though.

hehe you put forth a good argument. I'm glad to have heard it. I might now be able to muster up the willpower to write this dumba$$ paper.

Thanks :P

haha the paper can't be that bad....just use lots and lots and lots of quotes :D

hopefully, by the end of the paper, I will have a total of 1 page from all the many quotes I use. I'm so sick of this class but it's the very last assignment and I never have to take another English class again! blaaarrrghhghghg celebration! hahah XD

haha well that's good at least :P Lit's boring....

And I'll bring the cake :D

w00t! Make it chocolate-chocolate!! XD

I already made the chocolate-vanilla though :(