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I hought it would be fun but...

buckIPDA
Posts: 34
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6/6/2012 3:52:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's not.

I thought that if I tried to start over, threw myself into the community and just started debating that this website would be fun again, but it's just not.

At the end of my senior year, I thought I was burnt out on high school debate, on LD and the absurd bias that exists in UIL. But I think it's just debate in general. It's just not any fun anymore.

It's not an educational activity, not here and not when I did LD in high school. It's an exercise to see who can get the most votes and who can conform to community standards the best. Now maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just jaded to this whole thing, but I don't enjoy it anymore.

Anyway, ignore this if it doesn't apply to you. I'm planning on putting the link to this thread on my page.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/6/2012 1:23:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 3:52:31 AM, buckIPDA wrote:
It's not.

I thought that if I tried to start over, threw myself into the community and just started debating that this website would be fun again, but it's just not.

At the end of my senior year, I thought I was burnt out on high school debate, on LD and the absurd bias that exists in UIL. But I think it's just debate in general. It's just not any fun anymore.

It's not an educational activity, not here and not when I did LD in high school. It's an exercise to see who can get the most votes and who can conform to community standards the best. Now maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just jaded to this whole thing, but I don't enjoy it anymore.

Anyway, ignore this if it doesn't apply to you. I'm planning on putting the link to this thread on my page.

The debate that I am most proud of I lost, and I really don't think it was a fair loss, but I'm still very proud of my debate, and my arguments. When you know the deck is stacked against you, I know how you feel, it's pointless. There are loads of debates that I don't even bother with because I know I won't get a fair shake. It's not even just the voting, it's looking at an inferior argument and losing to that. I take a lot of unpopular positions and unless I'm going to debate an utter moron who is barely capable of spelling his name, I know that I will lose, but worse, I will put a tremendous amount of thought and work into something that goes largely unappreciated, unread, and poorly judged.

I like the idea of debates without votes.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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6/6/2012 1:34:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 1:23:48 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/6/2012 3:52:31 AM, buckIPDA wrote:
It's not.

I thought that if I tried to start over, threw myself into the community and just started debating that this website would be fun again, but it's just not.

At the end of my senior year, I thought I was burnt out on high school debate, on LD and the absurd bias that exists in UIL. But I think it's just debate in general. It's just not any fun anymore.

It's not an educational activity, not here and not when I did LD in high school. It's an exercise to see who can get the most votes and who can conform to community standards the best. Now maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just jaded to this whole thing, but I don't enjoy it anymore.

Anyway, ignore this if it doesn't apply to you. I'm planning on putting the link to this thread on my page.

The debate that I am most proud of I lost, and I really don't think it was a fair loss, but I'm still very proud of my debate, and my arguments. When you know the deck is stacked against you, I know how you feel, it's pointless. There are loads of debates that I don't even bother with because I know I won't get a fair shake. It's not even just the voting, it's looking at an inferior argument and losing to that. I take a lot of unpopular positions and unless I'm going to debate an utter moron who is barely capable of spelling his name, I know that I will lose, but worse, I will put a tremendous amount of thought and work into something that goes largely unappreciated, unread, and poorly judged.

I like the idea of debates without votes.

But then, it's no longer a competition.

I've long since thought that voting should be more exclusive, but I have no idea how that distinction should be made.

I mean, this forum loves voting, but that kind of leaves something very important in the hands of those who engage only one component of the site (those who debate exclusively).

So, how would we choose voters, and how could we have enough of them to vote on all of the debates that we have going on at all times?

OOO!

Perhaps... we can have a system where, instead of doing away with voting altogether, simply delay voting with the expectation that the "winner" isn't going to be determined for a good while. Then, have a preselected panel (I guess, they can apply, or they can be chosen, or elected, or whatever, somehow earn it, I guess, along with a degree of interest), that would go around and vote on debates.

OH!

Perhaps, we can have that only for "Official" debates that are chosen to have this special treatment, so that those are given the attentiveness suited to the amount of work applied to them.

That way, we can still have other debates that aren't as serious (troll debates?), or whatever, and they can have the same voting, and things can largely continue as people are already used to.

However, for those debates with more serious debaters, we have a more serious approach.

Yeah?
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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6/6/2012 1:35:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 1:34:30 PM, Ren wrote:

I mean, this forum loves voting, but that kind of leaves something very important in the hands of those who engage only one component of the site (those who participate in the forums as opposed to debate exclusively).
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/6/2012 1:47:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 1:34:30 PM, Ren wrote:
At 6/6/2012 1:23:48 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/6/2012 3:52:31 AM, buckIPDA wrote:
It's not.

I thought that if I tried to start over, threw myself into the community and just started debating that this website would be fun again, but it's just not.

At the end of my senior year, I thought I was burnt out on high school debate, on LD and the absurd bias that exists in UIL. But I think it's just debate in general. It's just not any fun anymore.

It's not an educational activity, not here and not when I did LD in high school. It's an exercise to see who can get the most votes and who can conform to community standards the best. Now maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just jaded to this whole thing, but I don't enjoy it anymore.

Anyway, ignore this if it doesn't apply to you. I'm planning on putting the link to this thread on my page.

The debate that I am most proud of I lost, and I really don't think it was a fair loss, but I'm still very proud of my debate, and my arguments. When you know the deck is stacked against you, I know how you feel, it's pointless. There are loads of debates that I don't even bother with because I know I won't get a fair shake. It's not even just the voting, it's looking at an inferior argument and losing to that. I take a lot of unpopular positions and unless I'm going to debate an utter moron who is barely capable of spelling his name, I know that I will lose, but worse, I will put a tremendous amount of thought and work into something that goes largely unappreciated, unread, and poorly judged.

I like the idea of debates without votes.

But then, it's no longer a competition.

I've long since thought that voting should be more exclusive, but I have no idea how that distinction should be made.

I mean, this forum loves voting, but that kind of leaves something very important in the hands of those who engage only one component of the site (those who debate exclusively).

So, how would we choose voters, and how could we have enough of them to vote on all of the debates that we have going on at all times?

OOO!

Perhaps... we can have a system where, instead of doing away with voting altogether, simply delay voting with the expectation that the "winner" isn't going to be determined for a good while. Then, have a preselected panel (I guess, they can apply, or they can be chosen, or elected, or whatever, somehow earn it, I guess, along with a degree of interest), that would go around and vote on debates.

OH!

Perhaps, we can have that only for "Official" debates that are chosen to have this special treatment, so that those are given the attentiveness suited to the amount of work applied to them.

That way, we can still have other debates that aren't as serious (troll debates?), or whatever, and they can have the same voting, and things can largely continue as people are already used to.

However, for those debates with more serious debaters, we have a more serious approach.

Yeah?

The devil is in the details, and honestly I don't think it would change the net result, except it would just be even more difficult to get people to vote. I also don't know how you would divvy up the site like that.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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6/6/2012 2:03:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 1:47:10 PM, innomen wrote:

The devil is in the details, and honestly I don't think it would change the net result, except it would just be even more difficult to get people to vote. I also don't know how you would divvy up the site like that.

Yeah, I know. The idea is completely parochial.

Ah well. If there's any further development, I'll mention it. ^_^
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/6/2012 2:12:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 1:23:48 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/6/2012 3:52:31 AM, buckIPDA wrote:
It's not.

I thought that if I tried to start over, threw myself into the community and just started debating that this website would be fun again, but it's just not.

At the end of my senior year, I thought I was burnt out on high school debate, on LD and the absurd bias that exists in UIL. But I think it's just debate in general. It's just not any fun anymore.

It's not an educational activity, not here and not when I did LD in high school. It's an exercise to see who can get the most votes and who can conform to community standards the best. Now maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just jaded to this whole thing, but I don't enjoy it anymore.

Anyway, ignore this if it doesn't apply to you. I'm planning on putting the link to this thread on my page.

The debate that I am most proud of I lost, and I really don't think it was a fair loss, but I'm still very proud of my debate, and my arguments. When you know the deck is stacked against you, I know how you feel, it's pointless. There are loads of debates that I don't even bother with because I know I won't get a fair shake. It's not even just the voting, it's looking at an inferior argument and losing to that. I take a lot of unpopular positions and unless I'm going to debate an utter moron who is barely capable of spelling his name, I know that I will lose, but worse, I will put a tremendous amount of thought and work into something that goes largely unappreciated, unread, and poorly judged.

I like the idea of debates without votes.

yeah right. Name one unpopular view you have that is barely represented on DDO. And then add to that the fact that you're the president and people have a conscious, subconscious bias in your favor regardless of your arguments.

I find it pretty hard to believe that you don't get a fair shot in a debate.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/6/2012 4:36:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 2:12:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/6/2012 1:23:48 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/6/2012 3:52:31 AM, buckIPDA wrote:
It's not.

I thought that if I tried to start over, threw myself into the community and just started debating that this website would be fun again, but it's just not.

At the end of my senior year, I thought I was burnt out on high school debate, on LD and the absurd bias that exists in UIL. But I think it's just debate in general. It's just not any fun anymore.

It's not an educational activity, not here and not when I did LD in high school. It's an exercise to see who can get the most votes and who can conform to community standards the best. Now maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just jaded to this whole thing, but I don't enjoy it anymore.

Anyway, ignore this if it doesn't apply to you. I'm planning on putting the link to this thread on my page.

The debate that I am most proud of I lost, and I really don't think it was a fair loss, but I'm still very proud of my debate, and my arguments. When you know the deck is stacked against you, I know how you feel, it's pointless. There are loads of debates that I don't even bother with because I know I won't get a fair shake. It's not even just the voting, it's looking at an inferior argument and losing to that. I take a lot of unpopular positions and unless I'm going to debate an utter moron who is barely capable of spelling his name, I know that I will lose, but worse, I will put a tremendous amount of thought and work into something that goes largely unappreciated, unread, and poorly judged.

I like the idea of debates without votes.

yeah right. Name one unpopular view you have that is barely represented on DDO. And then add to that the fact that you're the president and people have a conscious, subconscious bias in your favor regardless of your arguments.

I find it pretty hard to believe that you don't get a fair shot in a debate.

I've been a member for 3 years, and while president hardly debated at all. I'm not whining about it, or 'saying unfair unfair', just sympathizing with the OP.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/6/2012 4:39:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 3:44:04 PM, lickdatoenails wrote:
Can you point to a specific debate Innomen?

http://www.debate.org...

Had I voted for myself like my opponent, I would have won. Still, I think that my argument was superior, but the position horribly unpopular.
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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6/6/2012 5:09:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 2:12:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/6/2012 1:23:48 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/6/2012 3:52:31 AM, buckIPDA wrote:
It's not.

I thought that if I tried to start over, threw myself into the community and just started debating that this website would be fun again, but it's just not.

At the end of my senior year, I thought I was burnt out on high school debate, on LD and the absurd bias that exists in UIL. But I think it's just debate in general. It's just not any fun anymore.

It's not an educational activity, not here and not when I did LD in high school. It's an exercise to see who can get the most votes and who can conform to community standards the best. Now maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just jaded to this whole thing, but I don't enjoy it anymore.

Anyway, ignore this if it doesn't apply to you. I'm planning on putting the link to this thread on my page.

The debate that I am most proud of I lost, and I really don't think it was a fair loss, but I'm still very proud of my debate, and my arguments. When you know the deck is stacked against you, I know how you feel, it's pointless. There are loads of debates that I don't even bother with because I know I won't get a fair shake. It's not even just the voting, it's looking at an inferior argument and losing to that. I take a lot of unpopular positions and unless I'm going to debate an utter moron who is barely capable of spelling his name, I know that I will lose, but worse, I will put a tremendous amount of thought and work into something that goes largely unappreciated, unread, and poorly judged.

I like the idea of debates without votes.

yeah right. Name one unpopular view you have that is barely represented on DDO. And then add to that the fact that you're the president and people have a conscious, subconscious bias in your favor regardless of your arguments.

I find it pretty hard to believe that you don't get a fair shot in a debate.

Ike, did you look at Innomen's debates or tried to use the reasoning that there exists some sort of "conscious, subconscious" (?) bias in favor of Innomen's arguments that must certainly exist?
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
Man-is-good
Posts: 6,871
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6/6/2012 5:10:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I often have spades of enthusiasm to debate but the wonder has faded away in the wake of real life....
"Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto." --Terence

"I believe that the mind can be permanently profaned by the habit of attending to trivial things, so that all our thoughts shall be tinged with triviality."--Thoreau
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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6/6/2012 5:51:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 1:23:48 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/6/2012 3:52:31 AM, buckIPDA wrote:
It's not.

I thought that if I tried to start over, threw myself into the community and just started debating that this website would be fun again, but it's just not.

At the end of my senior year, I thought I was burnt out on high school debate, on LD and the absurd bias that exists in UIL. But I think it's just debate in general. It's just not any fun anymore.

It's not an educational activity, not here and not when I did LD in high school. It's an exercise to see who can get the most votes and who can conform to community standards the best. Now maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just jaded to this whole thing, but I don't enjoy it anymore.

Anyway, ignore this if it doesn't apply to you. I'm planning on putting the link to this thread on my page.

The debate that I am most proud of I lost, and I really don't think it was a fair loss, but I'm still very proud of my debate, and my arguments. When you know the deck is stacked against you, I know how you feel, it's pointless. There are loads of debates that I don't even bother with because I know I won't get a fair shake. It's not even just the voting, it's looking at an inferior argument and losing to that. I take a lot of unpopular positions and unless I'm going to debate an utter moron who is barely capable of spelling his name, I know that I will lose, but worse, I will put a tremendous amount of thought and work into something that goes largely unappreciated, unread, and poorly judged.

I like the idea of debates without votes.

I wholeheartedly endorse this.
Tsar of DDO
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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6/6/2012 6:18:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with Ren. A debate is a competition. Even if you are playing a game of soccer with your friends, the objective is always to win the game. While you are doing that, it is still possible to have fun. I really doubt I would put in the time I do creating debate arguments if I knew it wasn't going to be judged. Sure, the inadequate votes can always be countered as can the votebombs. I would be more interested in seeing how the votes from members who have read the debate and give detailed analysis stack up.
sadolite
Posts: 8,836
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6/6/2012 8:37:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 3:52:31 AM, buckIPDA wrote:
It's not.

I thought that if I tried to start over, threw myself into the community and just started debating that this website would be fun again, but it's just not.

At the end of my senior year, I thought I was burnt out on high school debate, on LD and the absurd bias that exists in UIL. But I think it's just debate in general. It's just not any fun anymore.

It's not an educational activity, not here and not when I did LD in high school. It's an exercise to see who can get the most votes and who can conform to community standards the best. Now maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just jaded to this whole thing, but I don't enjoy it anymore.

Anyway, ignore this if it doesn't apply to you. I'm planning on putting the link to this thread on my page.

Ya, I know what you mean. I used to debate global warming, talk about brainwashed beyond belief. You can never win a debate against global warming. It's pure indoctrination in the schools.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%