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Civ Story

UnStupendousMan
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6/23/2012 2:12:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Since there wasn't a humungous outcry over me posting a (or some) Civilization stories, I've decided to create a thread for people (mainly me : P) to post various Civ stories from various Civ games. I'm going to do my first story on a game where I was (and am; still playing that game) the Netherlands in Civ V.
UnStupendousMan
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6/23/2012 3:33:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Parameters:

-I'm playing William I of the Netherlands (See above)
-Shuffle map
-Large Map
-King Level
-10 Civs, 22 City-States
-Standard Game Pace
-All Victory Types are open
-Ancient Era Start
-No advanced options
-I have G&K and all the DLC
-I know all the civs in the game, but I'm not going to reveal them to you. Let's just say that... I didn't make it easy on myself.
-Note about the actual story: I'm going to have part of the story be an actual story about the nations and it's workings, and the other part is ging to be a little clearer about what is actually happening.
-I'm more than willing to receive suggestions about how I should play and about my writing style, etc.

+++

Once, there was a group of nomads from the jungle who liked the color orange. The went about their days hunting and gathering. Life was peaceful and harmonious until one day when a person discovered that one could domesticate plants. The group of wanderers decided to settle down and create a civilization. They decided to call themselves The Netherlands and their city Amsterdam.

Once they founded their coastal city, they raised a flag of a white lion on a orange background over the city. Amsterdam soon realized that it needed leadership. A man by the name of William, who did not know much of the new nation's language, said that he should lead the country. However, the nation decided that a council of elders should be the wisest choice. William was on the council, unsurprisingly.

The first order of buisness that the council was mapping the world around them. They sent out their small ragged band of a military to go exploring. The next thing that the council was faced with was what to send their mystics, oracles and general men of science to invent. The council told the men to start thinking about how to make clay into things that can hold stuff. The next thing to do was what to put the populous of Amsterdam to work on. The council told them that the nation needed to know more about it's surroundings, so the city needed to start building a military corps designated to exploring the surrounding land. The final thing to do was to decide if they should get really mad at people if they started calling their fair people "Dutch" and call their land "Holland."

During the next 40 years or so, the populous of Amsterdam would have to adjust to not moving around constantly. The next day after the city's founding, some people who didn't get the memo that they had to stay put started picking up their stuff. When some people who did get the idea of perminant residence told them they were doing the whole concept of the "city" wrong, some of the people were sad and tried again, but some were mad that nomadism was out of the question and left. Aside from that little incident, the people of the Netherlands loved their new little town: http://www.debate.org...

Years went by with the people proud of themselves for being a civilization. Over time, William became their de facto leader, although the ceremonial stuff with the elder's council was still in place. The nation prospered under the guiding hand of William, doubling in just 200 years. Soon, the ragged band that was the Netherlands' military found a ruin of a lost civilization and found wealth beyond what the Netherlands had ever known. And the unit specializing in scouting out the land had been produced by the hard-working people of Amsterdam. They started building a monument to civilization because they wanted to. The mystics and oracles came up with a way to make clay into pots for the elder's council, and did so in a way that exceeded the council's expectations.

However, there was a distressing discovery that was unearthed: the landmass that the Netherlandish were on was not a vast continent as they thought they were on, they were on a rather small island. The oral tradition of the Netherlands told them that they had travelled vast distances to their present location across mountains, through swamps and over raging rivers; were they really that stupid? The elder council was worried, and decided that they should look towards the sea in order to expand and explore. William took notice of what was on the island: it was mainly jungles and mountains with a few hills in between. There was plenty silver, bananas and some cattle and good fishing areas: http://www.debate.org...

But the nation was boxed in until it could cross the oceans.

+++

What actually happened

4000 BC, Turn 1:
-Found Amsterdam
-Send Warrior exploring
-Research Pottery
-Start producing scout

3800 BC, Turn 5:
-Amsterdam's population 1 --> 2

3720 BC, Turn 7
-Warrior discovers ruins
-Scout produced
-Start producing monument

3600 BC, Turn 10
-Pottery Discovered
-Start researching sailing

+++

So, what do you think?
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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6/24/2012 4:29:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Gasp! You play Civ V too? *squee of joy*
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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6/24/2012 7:40:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/24/2012 4:29:46 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
Gasp! You play Civ V too? *squee of joy*

I got it via the Mac App store; I doubt that we'll be playing multiplayer anytime soon. But yes, I do play Civ V, and will likely play more due to the expansion.
MouthWash
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6/24/2012 9:41:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Make a colonial trade empire! Oh wait, it's Civ V. So just spam cities wherever and win.

I remember one RFC game in Civ IV as Arabia. After securing Israel, Persia and Egypt, I declared a Jihad against Christianity, and aided by my Muslim Spanish vassals, I attacked and conquered Italy. I then used it as a base for building up troops (Rome was a powerhouse with THREE military instructors) and began colonizing the world.

I met the Incas, but they had useless mountainous land. My first conquest of the New World were the Aztecs, whose cities later became very powerful under my control and started shipping out corn from the Central America. China became a protectorate, and I began sending shiploads of missionaries to convert them to Islam, as well as colonizing the East Coast and then granting the converted colonies independence (to insure that the Americans would later become Muslims too).

The Ottomans also spawned, but converted to Christianity and embarked on a crusade to retake Jerusalem. I quickly took it back, annihilated their army, and rampaged through Turkey and Greece until they converted and capitulated. I then invaded France and took the powerhouse city of Paris, but they stopped me by voting to end the war in the Christian Apostolic Palace. I had to stop or risk rebellion by the Christian population in my empire. Soon after, what was left of France collapsed into two kingdoms, invalidating the treaty and allowing me to put an end to them once and for all.

After dividing France and Portugal up with my Spanish allies, I began planning a gargantuan invasion of the last refuge of Christianity and the only thing standing in the way of world power - the Russian power bloc in Northern Europe. Russia had a vast army, and controlled both Holland (which I desperately needed to conquer for the University of Sankore, which would give +2 gold for every religious building, of which I had a ton), Germany, which had always seemed aggressive towards my holdings in Europe, and Scandinavia, which posed almost no threat and was quite weak up by the Arctic.

Notice how I took out all the big European colonizers quickly, and I also didn't give my vassals the Astronomy tech (which needed to colonize across oceans), nor did I allow them to research it. I didn't want any competition, not even from allies, to my access to the New World. This policy was successful except for one Dutch city in eastern Canada, but that I could have taken care of when the invasion began (I kept a military presence by my former colonies). I also planned to colonize Indonesia but before all of this could take place I discovered a much better mod (RFC Dawn of Civilization) and got kind of bored with the now-outdated RFC. It was a great game, though.

But hey, your Civ V story sound really fun and entertaining.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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6/25/2012 8:23:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Made a mistake, the University of Sankore gives two beakers per religious building, not gold. Also, Civ V multiplayer is actually playable now?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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6/25/2012 8:29:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/25/2012 8:23:28 AM, MouthWash wrote:
Made a mistake, the University of Sankore gives two beakers per religious building, not gold. Also, Civ V multiplayer is actually playable now?

I'm not certain. Never played multiplayer.
MouthWash
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6/25/2012 8:42:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/25/2012 8:29:09 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 6/25/2012 8:23:28 AM, MouthWash wrote:
Made a mistake, the University of Sankore gives two beakers per religious building, not gold. Also, Civ V multiplayer is actually playable now?

I'm not certain. Never played multiplayer.

"When it did release to the public, Civ5's MP turned out to be worse than anyone imagined. Not only is the game almost completely unplayable online, with drops and connection issues limiting games to a maximum of four total players, Civ5 lacks an incredible array of basic MP features. Not only are these features dropped from their previous inclusion in Civ4, it's simply hard to imagine how a mainstream game released in 2010 could possibly be so crippled for online play. Let me run through a quick list of these issues:

- There is no online lobby or staging area for Civ5. No common area to chat with other players and set up games ahead of time. The Civilization MP ladder group (Civ Players) have set up their own Steam chat room for this function, but that's hardly the same thing, and the vast majority of players will never even be aware of its existence.

- Connection issues are at least as bad as Civ4, if not worse (and they were bad in Civ4, let me tell you!) When players drop from an active game, they are immediately replaced with an AI and play continues. This is in contrast to Civ4, where a voting screen would pop up when anyone dropped and give the option to play on, wait for the player to return, or save the game and continue later. With drops being so common, AI takeover is a major problem.

- Because the connection issues are so bad, Civ5 games are essentially limited to a maximum of 4 total players. All of the games currently being run on the ladder are either 1 vs 1 duels, 2 vs 2 teamers, or 4 player free-for-alls. By way of contrast, the most common Civ4 MP setup was 5 vs 5 teamers. It's simply not possible to have the same number of human players in Civ5, which is really odd for a game that's five years newer than its predecessor.

- Games can only be run online through Steam; there are no Hotseat games, no Pitboss games, or Play By Email games. (All of these have been promised for the future, but none have appeared so far.) All online games must be simultaneous turns, no option for sequential turns even if players are willing to wait out the extra time needed.

- There are no turn timer options (Civ4 had four different speeds), and the MP ladder pros find the default option to be excruciatingly slow. Once a player ends their turn, he/she cannot take any further actions. You cannot queue up moves or change tiles/builds, unlike the previous online Civ games. Because of this crippling oversight, no competitive player in a MP game will ever end their turn early, and so everyone must sit around and wait out the turn timer in every turn of every game. The alternative is to get screwed over by someone who can still move their units and react while you are unable to do so.

- Note that there is no eight-second delay in Civ5 either, and unit movement rates are much increased, so be prepared for all sorts of insane double-moves of units. Have fun dealing with that Companion Cavalry that moved ten tiles across the turn split window before you could react. This is a major reason why "battles" in Civ5 turn into crazed click-fests to see who can move first. (More on this below.)

- There is no option to ping the map in Civ5, a basic feature of pretty much every online game ever, so have fun typing instructions to teammates in chat. Due to the way that Civ5's interface is designed, it's also not possible to see your teammates' research either.

- There is no city elimination option in Civ5 either. Seeing as how 95% of all MP ladder games used this option in Civ3/Civ4, you can tell how the game wasn't exactly designed with the online community in mind. Most games are decided based on points, which had a truly awful scoring system that vastly over-valued wonders and number of cities. It was tweaked in the patch and improved, fortunately, but still no city elimination option.

- Combat animations are disabled for Civ5 MP, and cannot be turned on. None of the downloadable content civs are playable either, which is fradulent on the part of Firaxis/Steam since they specifically list "Multiplayer" on the advertisement for the Babylon, Spain, and Inca downloadable content.

- All mods are also disabled for MP, so don't think you can come up with your own scenario and try it out online...

- You cannot save Civ5 MP games. I'm not making that up, it's not possible to create manual saves in online play. Players must rely on auto-saves if they want to continue a playing session, which is ridiculous on all sorts of levels.

But you don't have to take my word for it. Here's polukaks from Civ Players describing a list of "totally game breaking stuff" common to Civ5 MP:

"1: Sometimes when you are playing a game and have 1+ open slot from leaver, a person will randomly hotjoin you. This almost always causes the game to freeze.
2: Even when the game is full, people seem to be able to hotjoin you and freeze the game.
3: Randomly, the game will "desync" or whatever, making it impossible to move units. There is no indication as to which player is causing the problem.
4: Sometimes the game will just freeze, causing a reboot for one or more players. If this happens, due to unknown reasons, no amount of steam/civ/computer restarting will allow the game to be reloaded. In fact, the frozen player wont be able to join games for about half an hour.
5: During situations where many players try to move a lot of units (i.e. clickspam), the game will literally spend minutes trying to relay the commands between players.
6: When joining a game lobby, you will sometimes see yourself as AI, being unable to select (or unselect) your leader.
7: Very VERY often, a game will have a couple of random players that never seem to be able to sync with eachother. This will often happen during a RELOAD, where a bunch of players that were all connected previously suddenly cannot join a lobby together.
8: The game randomly enters the loading screen during gameplay for unknown reasons.
9: If someone legitemately tries to hotjoin, 90% of the time it will cause the game to freeze.
10: In the lobby, you will sometimes have players that appear ready and in sync for the host (and most others), but not ready (and maybe not even present!) for others. Launching a game in this state will generally cause a crash.
11: It is quite common to be sitting in the lobby waiting for players to join, only to have Civ 5 crash.
12: Oh and did I mention the game likes to crash in-game as well?
13: When a players join the game lobby, they will sometimes cause a slot to disappear. He will be invisible to every player in the lobby, and the host must make sure to figure out who it is and ask the person to rejoin.
14: Sometimes, during a reload, the slot of a player that is no longer in a game is "not ready" and the game cannot be launched. (Getting a temporary sub will solve this, but easily adds 10 minutes to the time it takes to get a reload going)"
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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6/25/2012 8:43:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
"Even if we could leave aside all of these technical issues, the gameplay itself in Civ5 translates very poorly to online play. Because each unit is so much more expensive than in past Civ games, losing one or two units can end the game entirely. With no double-move restrictions in place at all, along with a massive flatground defensive penalty and instant healing, games are frequently decided based on wild clicking races. It's perfectly possible to move a horseman seven tiles (across the timer window), kill a defending unit, and then insta-promote for full health again... all while the other player's connection is lagging and unable to respond. The forums are awash with reports of players issuing commands and then waiting 10 seconds, 20 seconds, 30 seconds, full minutes before they were carried out. Furthermore, with tile improvements so weak and buildings so terrible, the "economy" in MP games entirely consists of city spamming up to the happiness limit and chopping forests for production. No one ever builds anything other than units. The gameplay itself isn't fun or interesting, and compounded with the enormous technical problems, you have a complete trainwreck of a gaming experience.

The result has been a mass exodus of the Civilization ladder community from competitive MP play. I stuck a screengrab at the top of this section to demonstrate this phenomenon in action. Check out the "Days Idle" category to see just how few games are taking place. This is a picture of the Top 50 rankings for the Civ5 ladder. Counting the players offscreen in slots 40-50, the median "Days Idle" on the Civ Players ladder is 22. HALF of the Top 50 players have gone more than three weeks without playing a single game! 35 of the 50 players on the list haven't played a game in the last ten days. Counting "very active" players (a game in the past three days), we find only 8 out of 50 players on the list that qualify, a mere 16%. Civ Players also has a "Daily Results" category on their website that lists all of the games played each day. Going through those numbers, the ladder is averaging about 5-6 games played on weekdays and 7-10 games played on weekends. This past weekend (Friday + Saturday + Sunday), there were a grand total of 22 ladder games played; again, that's counting every single game played by everyone on the Civ5 MP ladder, added up together across three days. And it's the same group of 10-15 players taking part in every one of those games... Now obviously there are more games going on that aren't part of the organized ladder, but it serves as a useful barometer of the lack of interest in overall Civ5 MP.

It's truly sad how bad things have become. Civ4 had a vibrant and exciting online MP community; in the first six months after release, there were always hundreds of players in the staging lobby, and scores of games taking place. The gameplay was excellent, particularly for teamers; the one thing that held back Civ4 MP from becoming more popular was the connection problems and out of synch errors created by the poor Gamespy hosting. Three months after Civ4's release, I was playing in the first Clan Championship Cup as close to a dozen different groups vied for the overall crown in nine different events. It was a dynamic scene and a fun time. Three months after Civ5's release, there's not even enough player interest to form competing clans, and an event like the CCC can't be staged at all. Civ Players tried to hold a contest with a reward prize, and had to cancel it because there wasn't enough ladder activity. This is when the Civ5 MP community should be at its height, and instead it's a total wasteland. There's a small group of absolute diehards who continue to toil away in isolation, and the vast bulk of players have already moved on to other things.

I completely blame the design team for dropping the ball so egregiously on Civ5 MP. It's blatantly obvious that they didn't give a crap about the online side of the game, and made no attempt to put in even the most basic of MP features. If they had actually bothered to do more than the most superfluous of MP testing, they would have found a lot of ways to improve the Single Player side of the game as well. I can readily testify that Civ4's extensive MP testing caught a *LOT* of stuff that made the game better for everyone, particularly in the combat side of things. If they were going to release Civ5 MP in this poor of a state, then the designers should have just axed it entirely and tried to add it later in an expansion. What we actually have is pathetic and unacceptable."

[http://www.garath.net...]
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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6/25/2012 9:42:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
MW:

I have NEVER played MP and probably will never play it, due to mainly personal reasons. I have no clue about MP and any dings to MP do not make the game any less fun for me, because I ALWAYS play single player. If you want to argue whether Civ V is a good game or not, I'll accept a debate challenge. But I don't want long, ranting posts in a thread about various stories while playing Civ (in all variations).

Also, patches.
MouthWash
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6/25/2012 10:10:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/25/2012 9:42:33 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
MW:

I have NEVER played MP and probably will never play it, due to mainly personal reasons. I have no clue about MP and any dings to MP do not make the game any less fun for me, because I ALWAYS play single player. If you want to argue whether Civ V is a good game or not, I'll accept a debate challenge. But I don't want long, ranting posts in a thread about various stories while playing Civ (in all variations).

Also, patches.

I haven't played the latest patches or G&K so I wouldn't know. However, could you play a game similar to the one I posted above? No.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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6/25/2012 10:22:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/25/2012 10:10:54 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 6/25/2012 9:42:33 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
MW:

I have NEVER played MP and probably will never play it, due to mainly personal reasons. I have no clue about MP and any dings to MP do not make the game any less fun for me, because I ALWAYS play single player. If you want to argue whether Civ V is a good game or not, I'll accept a debate challenge. But I don't want long, ranting posts in a thread about various stories while playing Civ (in all variations).

Also, patches.

I haven't played the latest patches or G&K so I wouldn't know. However, could you play a game similar to the one I posted above? No.

So.... a person who has not experienced the patches, which by all accounts have improved the game, tells me, the person who has played the game with the patches that the game which I think is good if not great is awful and backs his statement up with a really out-of-date article? Yeah.

(But of course, those who don't like Civ V hate it with the intensity of a thousand suns and won't be converted by the expansion. And I saw your or your doppelganger's thread on CivFanatics: http://forums.civfanatics.com... )
MouthWash
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6/25/2012 10:31:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/25/2012 10:22:15 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
At 6/25/2012 10:10:54 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 6/25/2012 9:42:33 AM, UnStupendousMan wrote:
MW:

I have NEVER played MP and probably will never play it, due to mainly personal reasons. I have no clue about MP and any dings to MP do not make the game any less fun for me, because I ALWAYS play single player. If you want to argue whether Civ V is a good game or not, I'll accept a debate challenge. But I don't want long, ranting posts in a thread about various stories while playing Civ (in all variations).

Also, patches.

I haven't played the latest patches or G&K so I wouldn't know. However, could you play a game similar to the one I posted above? No.

So.... a person who has not experienced the patches, which by all accounts have improved the game, tells me, the person who has played the game with the patches that the game which I think is good if not great is awful and backs his statement up with a really out-of-date article? Yeah.

(But of course, those who don't like Civ V hate it with the intensity of a thousand suns and won't be converted by the expansion. And I saw your or your doppelganger's thread on CivFanatics: http://forums.civfanatics.com... )

Ho ho HO! That qualifies as stalking and violate the terms of use on this site! Also, if you don't mind, what is your username on Civfanatics?

I also asked you if you could playthrough a game similar to the one I posted. Based on my own experiences, I doubted that something like that could ever happen without years and years of modding. If it could, point out a story just like it and I'll go get G&K straightaway. As it stand, I'll wait for a mod, although I've heard from one of the modders of Caveman2Cosmos that modding Civ V is really difficult.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)