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Graphic Vietnam War Crime

blackhawk1331
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7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right? Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.
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bossyburrito
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7/31/2012 8:42:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right? Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.

Two wrongs =/= a Right.
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Wallstreetatheist
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7/31/2012 8:47:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 8:42:49 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right? Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.

Two wrongs =/= a Right.

Yeah! And keep your blackhawk to yourself!
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blackhawk1331
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7/31/2012 9:19:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 8:42:49 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right? Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.

Two wrongs =/= a Right.

There's this thing called justice. It can be achieved in different ways. I think the soldiers were fully justified if that person was a soldier or sympathizer. Especially considering this. It isn't the only case of torture. http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
HelterSkelter
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7/31/2012 9:26:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right?
Do you have evidence that the specific individual who was shot was a Vietcong operative who tortured that particular American soldier?

You're basically arguing that people have the right to punish others simply because they share characteristics with other people who have done them harm.

I noticed that you are white and American. The Zodiac Killer was white and American too, and he killed people, so I guess we should put you on death row. Sounds fair, right?
Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.

I blame both sides, although I blame the U.S. more since they were invading.
HelterSkelter
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7/31/2012 9:28:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I hate "they would have done the same thing to us" arguments. They're retarded. Those specific people did not do those things so they don't deserve punishment, and you're just making an assumption.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was innocent. The soldiers killed plenty of innocent people; see the My Lai massacre.
Apollo.11
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7/31/2012 9:57:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:37:28 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
What evidence do you have that he didn't deserve it?

1) BOP is on you
2) He was unarmed, compliant, and surrendering. No justification whatsoever to kill him.
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LaissezFaire
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7/31/2012 10:00:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right? Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.

Wouldn't that logic justify what the Vietcong did, rather than what the Americans did? If you can kill people because they did it to you first, then that justifies the Vietcong's actions against the Americans, not the other way around, since the Americans started it.
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blackhawk1331
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7/31/2012 10:56:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:26:41 PM, HelterSkelter wrote:
At 7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right?
Do you have evidence that the specific individual who was shot was a Vietcong operative who tortured that particular American soldier?

I said assuming he was, then it would be justified.

You're basically arguing that people have the right to punish others simply because they share characteristics with other people who have done them harm.

It's war. Armies act as one. If you attack one part, then you attack the whole group.

I noticed that you are white and American. The Zodiac Killer was white and American too, and he killed people, so I guess we should put you on death row. Sounds fair, right?

I didn't say because they're Vietnamese. I said it was justified assuming they were Viet Cong or a sympathizer. That would make them a member of an opposing force in a time of war. Race has nothig to do with it. I'm am neither the Zodiac Killer nor am I a sympathizer. Try reading next time.

Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.

I blame both sides, although I blame the U.S. more since they were invading.

I never said we were justified in going to Vietnam. Our invasion wasn't justification for the Viet Cong to brutally torture our soldiers, though.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
blackhawk1331
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7/31/2012 11:01:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:28:00 PM, HelterSkelter wrote:
I hate "they would have done the same thing to us" arguments. They're retarded. Those specific people did not do those things so they don't deserve punishment, and you're just making an assumption.

If he's a member of the Viet Cong or a member of the NVA, he's not innocent.

*I didn't mean sympathizer, I meant North Vietnamese Army

I wouldn't be surprised if he was innocent. The soldiers killed plenty of innocent people; see the My Lai massacre.

And they should be tried for war crimes if he was innocent. If he was a member of the afore mentioned groups, however, then they shouldn't.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
blackhawk1331
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7/31/2012 11:06:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:57:31 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:37:28 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
What evidence do you have that he didn't deserve it?

1) BOP is on you
2) He was unarmed, compliant, and surrendering. No justification whatsoever to kill him.

He was bound. He had clearly already been captured. This also points to him being an enemy combatant. Based on what was done by the Viet Cong and NVA, those soldiers would be justified imo.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
blackhawk1331
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7/31/2012 11:11:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 10:00:16 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right? Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.

Wouldn't that logic justify what the Vietcong did, rather than what the Americans did? If you can kill people because they did it to you first, then that justifies the Vietcong's actions against the Americans, not the other way around, since the Americans started it.

First of all, Vietnam was a French colony that rebelled. The Americans assisted the French in trying to maintain the colony. That's when the war started. Therefore, the Vietnamese started it. Second, shooting the enemy in combat is one thing that doesn't warrant that sort of response. Tying them down so bamboo shoots grow up through them is a totally different issue. It easily warrants that type of retaliation.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
Apollo.11
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8/1/2012 12:02:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 12:00:26 AM, Maikuru wrote:
War is hell.

That wasn't war. That was senseless killing. They weren't on a battle field. We wasn't armed nor fighting back. There is no justification.
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Wallstreetatheist
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8/1/2012 12:50:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 11:06:50 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:57:31 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:37:28 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
What evidence do you have that he didn't deserve it?

1) BOP is on you
2) He was unarmed, compliant, and surrendering. No justification whatsoever to kill him.

He was bound. He had clearly already been captured. This also points to him being an enemy combatant. Based on what was done by the Viet Cong and NVA, those soldiers would be justified imo.

Perhaps the most recognised picture from the war is this by Eddie Adams.
It shows the South Vietnamese General Nguyen Ngoc Loan executing a Viet Cong officer with a single shot to the head.

Photographs do not tell the whole truth, however. The prisoner had just killed at least eight people, which is what led Gen Loan to carry out the execution.

The image was to change the public perception of the war and haunted Gen Loan until his death.

http://news.bbc.co.uk...
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LaissezFaire
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8/1/2012 1:14:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 11:11:00 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
At 7/31/2012 10:00:16 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right? Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.

Wouldn't that logic justify what the Vietcong did, rather than what the Americans did? If you can kill people because they did it to you first, then that justifies the Vietcong's actions against the Americans, not the other way around, since the Americans started it.

First of all, Vietnam was a French colony that rebelled. The Americans assisted the French in trying to maintain the colony. That's when the war started. Therefore, the Vietnamese started it. Second, shooting the enemy in combat is one thing that doesn't warrant that sort of response. Tying them down so bamboo shoots grow up through them is a totally different issue. It easily warrants that type of retaliation.

Rebelling against a colonial power is hardly 'starting it.' Conquering a country and making it your colony is start it, as is helping a colonial power maintain its rule.

And 'shooting the enemy in combat' is hardly an accurate description of the American war effort.
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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
Maikuru
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8/1/2012 1:25:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 12:02:03 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 8/1/2012 12:00:26 AM, Maikuru wrote:
War is hell.

That wasn't war. That was senseless killing. They weren't on a battle field. We wasn't armed nor fighting back. There is no justification.

War doesn't stop at the battlefield. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it's hell.
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Agent_Orange
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8/1/2012 2:13:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:57:31 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:37:28 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
What evidence do you have that he didn't deserve it?

1) BOP is on you
2) He was unarmed, compliant, and surrendering. No justification whatsoever to kill him.

Well according to OP, he killed eight people. I'd have done the same thing. Actually I would have shot him in the knees first.
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HelterSkelter
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8/1/2012 6:34:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 10:56:57 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:26:41 PM, HelterSkelter wrote:
At 7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right?
Do you have evidence that the specific individual who was shot was a Vietcong operative who tortured that particular American soldier?

I said assuming he was, then it would be justified.

Evidence, please. The burden is on you.
You're basically arguing that people have the right to punish others simply because they share characteristics with other people who have done them harm.

It's war.
I don't see why war evaporates morality.
Armies act as one. If you attack one part, then you attack the whole group.

That's nonsense. If I torture a specific prisoner, I have not attacked the group as a whole. Plus, all you are doing is justifying the Vietcong attacks because the Americans started it by invading. They attacked some Vietnamese people. so everyone can respond.
I noticed that you are white and American. The Zodiac Killer was white and American too, and he killed people, so I guess we should put you on death row. Sounds fair, right?

I didn't say because they're Vietnamese. I said it was justified assuming they were Viet Cong or a sympathizer.
That particular individual did not torture people, so even if he was Viet Cong, it was not justified. On top of it, killing noncombatant sympathizers is terrorism. The Muslims didn't like our sympathizing with Israel, so they blew up the twin towers on 9/11. That was terrorism. The standards don't change just because we're Americans. You cannot kill unarmed people just because you suspect that they are sympathizers. That pretty much justifies any and all acts of terrorism.
That would make them a member of an opposing force in a time of war.
Read about just war theory. You cannot attack noncombatants in war just because they support their armies. That is called terrorism.
Race has nothig to do with it. I'm am neither the Zodiac Killer nor am I a sympathizer. Try reading next time.

War doesn't evaporate morality.
Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.

I blame both sides, although I blame the U.S. more since they were invading.

I never said we were justified in going to Vietnam. Our invasion wasn't justification for the Viet Cong to brutally torture our soldiers, though.

Yes, it was. We invaded, and they have a right to defend themselves. On top of it, you are contradicting your own argument by claiming that if we attack one part of the group, we attack all, and it's justified to kill them. That was something that you said earlier.
HelterSkelter
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8/1/2012 6:35:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 11:01:00 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:28:00 PM, HelterSkelter wrote:
I hate "they would have done the same thing to us" arguments. They're retarded. Those specific people did not do those things so they don't deserve punishment, and you're just making an assumption.

If he's a member of the Viet Cong or a member of the NVA, he's not innocent.

Sure he is. It's his homeland and he's defending it from imperialists who should have stayed at home and helped their own citizens.
*I didn't mean sympathizer, I meant North Vietnamese Army

I wouldn't be surprised if he was innocent. The soldiers killed plenty of innocent people; see the My Lai massacre.

And they should be tried for war crimes if he was innocent. If he was a member of the afore mentioned groups, however, then they shouldn't.

They should, since they started the war.
HelterSkelter
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8/1/2012 6:36:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is one of the reasons that I will not be voting for Romney. He's a hawk. Obama's bad, but he's not as much of a war monger as Romney. I wish Ron Paul had a legitimate shot :/
000ike
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8/1/2012 11:44:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right? Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.

I can't begin to describe angry this comment makes me. Suffering at the hands of the Vietcong?... A government we decided to attack out of our own egocentric necessity to control the political atmosphere of the world? Suffering we brought upon ourselves. Suffering we overwhelming reined upon Vietnam?? You see that video, and this is what you have to say? What unforgivable idiocy.
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DetectableNinja
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8/1/2012 12:47:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Fvck. I remember reading an article about that particular execution: specifically, the all famous picture of the moment before he shot him. It's actually more complex than that, like everything in the world.

Honestly, I can't judge in either way if he was justified or not. However, it was interesting to read more about the actual story of what happened. Here's a link: http://www.famouspictures.org...
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DetectableNinja
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8/1/2012 12:50:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 11:44:22 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right? Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.

I can't begin to describe angry this comment makes me. Suffering at the hands of the Vietcong?... A government we decided to attack out of our own egocentric necessity to control the political atmosphere of the world? Suffering we brought upon ourselves. Suffering we overwhelming reined upon Vietnam?? You see that video, and this is what you have to say? What unforgivable idiocy.

I do have to say that the execution victim WAS a Vietcong operative. Additionally (the shooter was Loan, vic was Lem): "Eddie Adams was told by Loan that Lem had killed one of Loan's friends and his family, 'They found out that [Lem] was the same guy who killed one of his ---uh---Loan's officers and wiped out his whole family.'"
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

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Agent_Orange
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8/1/2012 2:49:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 6:36:57 AM, HelterSkelter wrote:
This is one of the reasons that I will not be voting for Romney. He's a hawk. Obama's bad, but he's not as much of a war monger as Romney. I wish Ron Paul had a legitimate shot :/

Romney doesn't even have a chance lol. Obama will win this election with ease.
#BlackLivesMatter
PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/1/2012 2:55:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 10:00:16 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 7/31/2012 8:36:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
YOou do realize what American soldiers went through at the hands of the Vietcong, right? Assuming that person was a soldier or sympathizer of the Vietcong, I don't blame the soldiers at all.

Wouldn't that logic justify what the Vietcong did, rather than what the Americans did? If you can kill people because they did it to you first, then that justifies the Vietcong's actions against the Americans, not the other way around, since the Americans started it.:

Just so we're all clear, that wasn't an American firing that pistol. They were both Vietnamese, one from the North and the other from the South.
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Frederick53
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8/1/2012 4:53:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
And then there's the other one that we don't have footage of where 75,000 Cambodians were murdered by indiscriminant US bombing runs.
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blackhawk1331
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8/1/2012 6:23:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 12:50:02 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 7/31/2012 11:06:50 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:57:31 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:37:28 PM, Agent_Orange wrote:
What evidence do you have that he didn't deserve it?

1) BOP is on you
2) He was unarmed, compliant, and surrendering. No justification whatsoever to kill him.

He was bound. He had clearly already been captured. This also points to him being an enemy combatant. Based on what was done by the Viet Cong and NVA, those soldiers would be justified imo.

Perhaps the most recognised picture from the war is this by Eddie Adams.
It shows the South Vietnamese General Nguyen Ngoc Loan executing a Viet Cong officer with a single shot to the head.

Photographs do not tell the whole truth, however. The prisoner had just killed at least eight people, which is what led Gen Loan to carry out the execution.

The image was to change the public perception of the war and haunted Gen Loan until his death.

http://news.bbc.co.uk...

WAIT! That's a Vietnamese general? I thought it was an American.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena