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Hey Ragnar, got a spare $11000...

leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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10/28/2009 9:07:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
http://cgi.ebay.com.au...
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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10/28/2009 10:07:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/28/2009 9:07:27 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au...

awesome..................... very awesome
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/28/2009 10:39:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I think Ayn Rand would consider whomever bought that a fvcking MORON.

Seriously - Who the hell cares if she wrote her name in it?

It's ironically hilarious though. And best of all, it's really happening :P
President of DDO
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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10/28/2009 11:17:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/28/2009 10:39:08 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I think Ayn Rand would consider whomever bought that a fvcking MORON.

Haha, really? Is she like anti-capitalism or something?

If I had the spare cash I'd buy it because I know it's only going to increase in value.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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10/28/2009 11:58:26 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/28/2009 11:17:04 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 10/28/2009 10:39:08 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I think Ayn Rand would consider whomever bought that a fvcking MORON.

Haha, really? Is she like anti-capitalism or something?
No, just pro-usefulness. If something is bought solely because it is an investment, with no end user, what you have is someone setting up a Ponzi scheme completely by accident to fall on their own face. The only possible end user is being irrationally sentimental.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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10/29/2009 12:01:17 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/28/2009 11:58:26 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 10/28/2009 11:17:04 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 10/28/2009 10:39:08 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I think Ayn Rand would consider whomever bought that a fvcking MORON.

Haha, really? Is she like anti-capitalism or something?
No, just pro-usefulness. If something is bought solely because it is an investment, with no end user, what you have is someone setting up a Ponzi scheme completely by accident to fall on their own face. The only possible end user is being irrationally sentimental.

Ah righto. Is this Ayn Rand chick like your hero? I'm gonna wiki her and see what the fuss is all about.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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10/29/2009 12:02:53 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/29/2009 12:01:17 AM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 10/28/2009 11:58:26 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 10/28/2009 11:17:04 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 10/28/2009 10:39:08 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I think Ayn Rand would consider whomever bought that a fvcking MORON.

Haha, really? Is she like anti-capitalism or something?
No, just pro-usefulness. If something is bought solely because it is an investment, with no end user, what you have is someone setting up a Ponzi scheme completely by accident to fall on their own face. The only possible end user is being irrationally sentimental.

Ah righto. Is this Ayn Rand chick like your hero?
Given that you made this topic you obviously asked that just to troll.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Harlan
Posts: 1,880
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10/29/2009 6:06:31 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/28/2009 11:58:26 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 10/28/2009 11:17:04 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 10/28/2009 10:39:08 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I think Ayn Rand would consider whomever bought that a fvcking MORON.

Haha, really? Is she like anti-capitalism or something?
No, just pro-usefulness. If something is bought solely because it is an investment, with no end user, what you have is someone setting up a Ponzi scheme completely by accident to fall on their own face. The only possible end user is being irrationally sentimental.

But if it is universally (or at least very broadly) believed that the book is valuable because of the signature, than it can be used as a form of currency. Sure the signature has no usefulness in of itself, but that other people want it makes it valuable, supposedly.

For smaller increments of it's value, you could tear out individual pages to use for cheaper purchases. The next time your at the store you could hand them some torn sheets of Atlas shrugged as payment.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/1/2009 6:25:10 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 10/29/2009 6:06:31 PM, Harlan wrote:
At 10/28/2009 11:58:26 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 10/28/2009 11:17:04 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 10/28/2009 10:39:08 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I think Ayn Rand would consider whomever bought that a fvcking MORON.

Haha, really? Is she like anti-capitalism or something?
No, just pro-usefulness. If something is bought solely because it is an investment, with no end user, what you have is someone setting up a Ponzi scheme completely by accident to fall on their own face. The only possible end user is being irrationally sentimental.

But if it is universally (or at least very broadly) believed that the book is valuable because of the signature, than it can be used as a form of currency. Sure the signature has no usefulness in of itself, but that other people want it makes it valuable, supposedly.
A belief-- backed by nothing. No one actually wants it for keeps. This will eventually be discovered after it passes through the hands of all the middlemen and the last middleman has no one to sell it to (unless we do have an irrationally sentimental fellow-- in which case Rand is very displeased with this fellow).


For smaller increments of it's value, you could tear out individual pages to use for cheaper purchases. The next time your at the store you could hand them some torn sheets of Atlas shrugged as payment.
Even the irrational sentiment dictates that the book be whole. Whatever illusion of value it can attain is indivisible.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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11/1/2009 7:59:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/1/2009 6:25:10 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 10/29/2009 6:06:31 PM, Harlan wrote:
At 10/28/2009 11:58:26 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 10/28/2009 11:17:04 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 10/28/2009 10:39:08 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I think Ayn Rand would consider whomever bought that a fvcking MORON.

Haha, really? Is she like anti-capitalism or something?
No, just pro-usefulness. If something is bought solely because it is an investment, with no end user, what you have is someone setting up a Ponzi scheme completely by accident to fall on their own face. The only possible end user is being irrationally sentimental.

But if it is universally (or at least very broadly) believed that the book is valuable because of the signature, than it can be used as a form of currency. Sure the signature has no usefulness in of itself, but that other people want it makes it valuable, supposedly.
A belief-- backed by nothing. No one actually wants it for keeps. This will eventually be discovered after it passes through the hands of all the middlemen and the last middleman has no one to sell it to (unless we do have an irrationally sentimental fellow-- in which case Rand is very displeased with this fellow).

Why would she bother signing copies if she thinks it's so stupid?
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Harlan
Posts: 1,880
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11/1/2009 8:39:06 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
But if it is universally (or at least very broadly) believed that the book is valuable because of the signature, than it can be used as a form of currency. Sure the signature has no usefulness in of itself, but that other people want it makes it valuable, supposedly.
A belief-- backed by nothing. No one actually wants it for keeps. This will eventually be discovered after it passes through the hands of all the middlemen and the last middleman has no one to sell it to (unless we do have an irrationally sentimental fellow-- in which case Rand is very displeased with this fellow).

Is that as so with currency?
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/1/2009 8:43:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/1/2009 7:59:25 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 11/1/2009 6:25:10 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 10/29/2009 6:06:31 PM, Harlan wrote:
At 10/28/2009 11:58:26 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 10/28/2009 11:17:04 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 10/28/2009 10:39:08 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I think Ayn Rand would consider whomever bought that a fvcking MORON.

Haha, really? Is she like anti-capitalism or something?
No, just pro-usefulness. If something is bought solely because it is an investment, with no end user, what you have is someone setting up a Ponzi scheme completely by accident to fall on their own face. The only possible end user is being irrationally sentimental.

But if it is universally (or at least very broadly) believed that the book is valuable because of the signature, than it can be used as a form of currency. Sure the signature has no usefulness in of itself, but that other people want it makes it valuable, supposedly.
A belief-- backed by nothing. No one actually wants it for keeps. This will eventually be discovered after it passes through the hands of all the middlemen and the last middleman has no one to sell it to (unless we do have an irrationally sentimental fellow-- in which case Rand is very displeased with this fellow).


Why would she bother signing copies if she thinks it's so stupid?
Equivocation. Spending thousands on sentiments and spending pennies or their equivalent in effort are two different things.

Is that as so with currency?
Currency is backed by something. You go to jail if you don't hand a certain amount of it to the tax man. Releases from prison are valuable things.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Harlan
Posts: 1,880
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11/1/2009 9:07:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Is that as so with currency?
Currency is backed by something. You go to jail if you don't hand a certain amount of it to the tax man. Releases from prison are valuable things.

I was saying that because, though I don't know a whole lot about Ayn Rand's sociological philosophy, it seems strange that someone would reject sentimental value of things that don't have physical use, and yet advocate a system that relied on the sentimental value of non-tangible units of currency.

And is it not valuable to the state that collects your money because yet other entities will want the money from the government, thinking it valuable? That's only backed again by the beliefs of others.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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11/1/2009 9:55:15 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/1/2009 9:07:48 PM, Harlan wrote:
Is that as so with currency?
Currency is backed by something. You go to jail if you don't hand a certain amount of it to the tax man. Releases from prison are valuable things.

I was saying that because, though I don't know a whole lot about Ayn Rand's sociological philosophy, it seems strange that someone would reject sentimental value of things that don't have physical use, and yet advocate a system that relied on the sentimental value of non-tangible units of currency.
Ayn Rand advocated a gold standard.


And is it not valuable to the state that collects your money because yet other entities will want the money from the government, thinking it valuable?
The other entities will want the money from the government not because they falsely "think it valuable," but because they need it on tax day or they go to jail. The government doesn't want everyone to go to jail, you know, it just wants to use the threat to get physical goods.

That's only backed again by the beliefs of others.
Backed by the CORRECT belief that any others who don't have the certificates to prove that they sent their goods directly or indirectly to the state will go to jail-- which means, at back, is not belief, but jail. It's not a belief founded upon nothing, it's founded upon a threat.

If I printed certificates that represented my gold reserves, is "belief" that backs them? Not really, it's the fact that I will exchange gold for the certificates at any time, and if I didn't people would no longer accept my certificates. If there were no taxes and nothing to replace them with, it would take some time for most people to figure out (since they don't typically think about what the dollar represents), but within a few years the dollar would be less valuable than toilet paper unless the system was essentially devoid of actors with a hint of rationality.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Harlan
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11/1/2009 10:06:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/1/2009 9:55:15 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 11/1/2009 9:07:48 PM, Harlan wrote:
Is that as so with currency?
Currency is backed by something. You go to jail if you don't hand a certain amount of it to the tax man. Releases from prison are valuable things.

I was saying that because, though I don't know a whole lot about Ayn Rand's sociological philosophy, it seems strange that someone would reject sentimental value of things that don't have physical use, and yet advocate a system that relied on the sentimental value of non-tangible units of currency.
Ayn Rand advocated a gold standard.

Ah, OK. That makes a bit more sense.

But gold is, in the end, just a shiny rock. It is a more physical means of currency, but would you not call value of gold as superficial as an Ayn Rand signature? An Ayn Rand signature is valuable for it's rareness, as is gold. Gold has a few practical uses, but that is usually not why people desire it.

And is it not valuable to the state that collects your money because yet other entities will want the money from the government, thinking it valuable?
The other entities will want the money from the government not because they falsely "think it valuable," but because they need it on tax day or they go to jail. The government doesn't want everyone to go to jail, you know, it just wants to use the threat to get physical goods.

But, realistically, people usually get their greed for money for other reasons. Would you agree with this?

That's only backed again by the beliefs of others.
Backed by the CORRECT belief that any others who don't have the certificates to prove that they sent their goods directly or indirectly to the state will go to jail-- which means, at back, is not belief, but jail. It's not a belief founded upon nothing, it's founded upon a threat.

OK, but using money as the medium for that service to the state creates a superficial value of the money itself, does it not? Is that not a form of sentimental value?
Ragnar_Rahl
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11/1/2009 11:36:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago

But gold is, in the end, just a shiny rock. It is a more physical means of currency, but would you not call value of gold as superficial as an Ayn Rand signature?
Gold has applications for technology-- and as an aesthetic luxury can be molded into any number of shapes. An Ayn Rand signature cannot be molded into such shapes, it is mere sentimentality, there is no creative, intellectual element as there is in aesthetics. If people could not craft gold into such varying things, it would be far less valuable.


And is it not valuable to the state that collects your money because yet other entities will want the money from the government, thinking it valuable?
The other entities will want the money from the government not because they falsely "think it valuable," but because they need it on tax day or they go to jail. The government doesn't want everyone to go to jail, you know, it just wants to use the threat to get physical goods.

But, realistically, people usually get their greed for money for other reasons.
Would you agree with this?
No. They have greed for material goods. Bits of cottony paper having nothing to do with this until and unless a threat comes into the situation.


That's only backed again by the beliefs of others.
Backed by the CORRECT belief that any others who don't have the certificates to prove that they sent their goods directly or indirectly to the state will go to jail-- which means, at back, is not belief, but jail. It's not a belief founded upon nothing, it's founded upon a threat.

OK, but using money as the medium for that service to the state creates a superficial value of the money itself, does it not? Is that not a form of sentimental value?
Sentiment? As an accounting tool?

There is nothing sentimental about the state needing a tool to account how much someone has contributed for them to steal. If it did not have such a tool it would be unable to know who to jail in order to get the desired level of collections.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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11/8/2009 12:55:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I still think that signed book is super cool and if I had the cash (like, Bill Gate's amounts) I would totally buy it.

But, it's of that much value to me : )

As for a signed copy of Candide by Voltaire.... I'd kill : )
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.