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How many minds do you think we have

leet4A1
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11/4/2009 5:37:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Sounds a bit silly and of course the intuitive answer is one. But I've been thinking about it and I honestly believe I have at least two "minds" (whatever that means...).

A few reasons for this:

1. I am constantly having dialogues in my head as though there are more than one of "me" up there (once again, whatever that means). I call myself "man" in my thoughts and think stuff like "nah, I don't think that's a good idea man", and stuff like that.

2. I am constantly disagreeing with "myself". When I was struggling to quit weed a couple of months ago, there was a constant battle in my head that played out like a couple of toddlers arguing over toys. An example:

A: I want some bongs.
B: But you can't have any because of the p*ss test.
A: Yeah, but that's a few weeks away, I'll drink bulk water and exercise bulk and should be right.
B: I doubt that, it sometimes takes up to a few months.
A: I want bongs.

If weed isn't your thing, consider any conflicting thoughts you have (food you continue to eat despite telling "yourself" you shouldn't be, etc.) and ask yourself why one mind would be so conflicted about something you KNOW to be true. "I" know that I wouldn't have passed a p*ss test in such a short amount of time, but "I" thought I might be able to get away with it, until "I" talked some sense into "myself".

3. Consider being "of two minds" about something or "changing your mind". Like, don't you ever just sit there and talk to yourself in your mind (I hope so or I must be f*cked up lol). How can this possibly be unless there are more than one mind in our brain? How can something (a mind) think to itself, and then rebut?

Reading back over this now, I know it's not going to make much sense to those reading it, and I welcome all insults as much as insights. I know what I mean but am finding it hard to put into words.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Harlan
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11/4/2009 5:47:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
It depends on what we're calling a mind.

But I understand what you are saying. The brain is very complicated and it seems almost too simple to refer to it singularly. It's as different entities, not one, in a way.
leet4A1
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11/4/2009 5:50:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Haha, I don't think so Nags.

"The diagnosis requires that at least two personalities routinely take control of the individual's behavior with an associated memory loss that goes beyond normal forgetfulness"

This has never happened to me. This is more along the lines of Me, Myself and Irene stuff.

I really wish I could find the words to explain what I mean. It's hard to talk about the mind and thoughts I'm realizing.

Like, Nags, when you want to go to the fridge and grab out a bottle of water, what do you think?

1. Is it an automatic process where you "feel" thirsty and so your feet instinctively walk to the fridge and grab one out?
2. Or do you say to yourself, in your mind, "Man I'm thirsty, I'm grabbing a drink." And then when you see the bottle of water pick it up and go "yoink" and then after you've had a drink go "ahh, that's the sh*t".

Obviously not word-for-word, but I'm the latter. I am constantly having dialogues with myself. Once again, I realize this sounds really stupid and I can't find the right words to make it sound less-so.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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11/4/2009 5:50:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I think I have 2 or three, but this is certainly an interesting inquiry.

Supposedly, the two sides of the brain act independently.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
leet4A1
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11/4/2009 5:52:50 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
It depends on what we're calling a mind.

But I understand what you are saying. The brain is very complicated and it seems almost too simple to refer to it singularly. It's as different entities, not one, in a way.

I think I have 2 or three, but this is certainly an interesting inquiry.

Supposedly, the two sides of the brain act independently.

Sweet, thanks guys. I'm glad you get what I mean, and mostly that I'm not just going nuts. :D
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
mongoose
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11/4/2009 5:52:56 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Depends who you're talking about. Could be as high as 3 or so, but as low as 0.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
leet4A1
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11/4/2009 5:54:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/4/2009 5:52:56 PM, mongoose wrote:
Depends who you're talking about. Could be as high as 3 or so, but as low as 0.

What do you mean "as high as 3 or so" man?

I think I get the "as low as 0". :D
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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11/4/2009 6:00:15 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
leet, can you give another example that would generally apply to everyone? I kind've understand, but not really. :)
Kleptin
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11/4/2009 6:00:26 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I have at least two >.> DDO Kleptin and non-DDO Kleptin. The two are so different it scares the piss out of me.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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11/4/2009 6:04:16 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/4/2009 5:58:48 PM, mongeese wrote:
wjmelements, don't you have some evil alter ego?

Only for satire. It isn't real.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
GeoLaureate8
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11/4/2009 6:10:21 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I would agree that we have two minds. One is the higher self or the true self, the other is the brain that processes like a computer, or what is known as the ego.

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
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Maikuru
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11/4/2009 6:26:46 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Your example sounds a lot like Freud's concept of the id, ego, and superego. He believed our desires, social restraints, and sense of pragmatism battled in the mind when it came to desicion making. It's easier to visualize this kind of back-and-forth when discussing some pleasurable activity that has known consequences (like your bong example); your immediate impulses are to act on your desires until socially or morally-based reasoning tries to convince you otherwise. Your tendency to personalize each side of the argument with internal nicknames may just be your way of giving a logical voice to otherwise instinctive drives.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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leet4A1
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11/4/2009 6:27:59 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Nags, I really can't explain my point any better than I have sorry mate. I know exactly what I mean but words escape me.

Everyone else, thanks for sharing. I love this site. :D
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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11/4/2009 6:35:36 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/4/2009 6:26:46 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Your example sounds a lot like Freud's concept of the id, ego, and superego. He believed our desires, social restraints, and sense of pragmatism battled in the mind when it came to desicion making. It's easier to visualize this kind of back-and-forth when discussing some pleasurable activity that has known consequences (like your bong example); your immediate impulses are to act on your desires until socially or morally-based reasoning tries to convince you otherwise. Your tendency to personalize each side of the argument with internal nicknames may just be your way of giving a logical voice to otherwise instinctive drives.

This makes a lot of sense to me Maikuru, I think this is exactly what I was talking about. Thanks brother.

Do you believe this to be true or do you think this is just another crazy Freudian thing? After all, he did say we all wanted to f*ck our own mothers didn't he? :D
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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11/4/2009 7:17:59 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/4/2009 6:27:59 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
Nags, I really can't explain my point any better than I have sorry mate. I know exactly what I mean but words escape me.

Haha, that's alrite. I understand that feeling - you know what you want to say, but you can't translate it to words. It's fine.

I know what you're talking about though. I argue and debate with myself all the time. I argue with myself over trivial decisions, like Coke vs. Sprite. I debate with myself over important questions, like God vs. No God. It's pretty fun actually. My first link was just to be humorous, I think it's pretty normal.
TheSkeptic
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11/4/2009 7:22:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
If you look back at your example, it's not so much that you have two or more minds, but that your brain (this term is more preferable for us physicalists :P) is simply very complicated. You can tell because decision making can sometimes be very intricate with no clear answer in sight (such as your dilemma with smoking weed).

Your different "voices" aren't separate minds, after all you are saying those thoughts yourself, right? If not, and its as if you're acting talking to some other entity, then you may have a mental illness.

I talk to myself all the time, sometimes out loud. It helps me think about some things :).
ToastOfDestiny
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11/4/2009 7:26:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I totally get this feeling. Sometimes in the lunch line I'll seriously debate myself as to what to get. Ditto to the pantry at home. Especially when I'm munching on caramel corn, I'll be like, "I have the power to stop now. I should. No, I shouldn't. Yes! No!..."
At 10/11/2009 8:28:18 PM, banker wrote:
Our demise and industrial destruction
At 10/11/2009 10:00:21 PM, regebro wrote:
Only exists in your head, as already shown.

At 10/11/2009 8:28:18 PM, banker wrote:
reveal why you answer with a question mark
At 10/11/2009 10:00:21 PM, regebro wrote:
Because it was a question.

RFDs Pl0x:
http://www.debate.org...
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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11/4/2009 7:50:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/4/2009 6:35:36 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 11/4/2009 6:26:46 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Your example sounds a lot like Freud's concept of the id, ego, and superego. He believed our desires, social restraints, and sense of pragmatism battled in the mind when it came to desicion making. It's easier to visualize this kind of back-and-forth when discussing some pleasurable activity that has known consequences (like your bong example); your immediate impulses are to act on your desires until socially or morally-based reasoning tries to convince you otherwise. Your tendency to personalize each side of the argument with internal nicknames may just be your way of giving a logical voice to otherwise instinctive drives.

This makes a lot of sense to me Maikuru, I think this is exactly what I was talking about. Thanks brother.

Do you believe this to be true or do you think this is just another crazy Freudian thing? After all, he did say we all wanted to f*ck our own mothers didn't he? :D

As with so many psychological theories, I think Freud's explanation involved a lot of overanalysis. He went on to describe each of these three constructs in much greater detail, involving a lot of his well known poetic license.

I do believe that the internal conflicts we face during situations like yours are rooted in weighing our desires against what we believe to be acceptable behavior. I also believe that we personify our moral and social beliefs into an internal "other" that fights against our basic desires. Other than that, though, I tread lightly around this and many other of Freud's theories.

And yeah, he was talking about mother loving long before Timberlake sang about it =P
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Ragnar_Rahl
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11/4/2009 9:03:47 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/4/2009 5:50:38 PM, wjmelements wrote:
I think I have 2 or three, but this is certainly an interesting inquiry.

Supposedly, the two sides of the brain act independently.

They act independently--
if you cut the connections between them, otherwise, fairly interdependently.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Puck
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11/5/2009 12:52:22 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/4/2009 5:50:38 PM, wjmelements wrote:
I think I have 2 or three, but this is certainly an interesting inquiry.

Supposedly, the two sides of the brain act independently.

Depends, normal brain activity, the spheres will talk to each other, compare notes as it were and that's what the corpus callosum is for. Those who have had a corpus callosotomy, where the corpus callosum is severed (normally to relieve severe epilepsy) will experience two spheres of consciousness, one for each hemisphere of the brain with visual field recognition issues (eyes travel and decode at opposite side spheres).
regebro
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11/5/2009 2:23:35 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/4/2009 5:37:51 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
Sounds a bit silly and of course the intuitive answer is one. But I've been thinking about it and I honestly believe I have at least two "minds" (whatever that means...).

A few reasons for this:

1. I am constantly having dialogues in my head as though there are more than one of "me" up there (once again, whatever that means). I call myself "man" in my thoughts and think stuff like "nah, I don't think that's a good idea man", and stuff like that.

2. I am constantly disagreeing with "myself". When I was struggling to quit weed a couple of months ago, there was a constant battle in my head that played out like a couple of toddlers arguing over toys. An example:

A: I want some bongs.
B: But you can't have any because of the p*ss test.
A: Yeah, but that's a few weeks away, I'll drink bulk water and exercise bulk and should be right.
B: I doubt that, it sometimes takes up to a few months.
A: I want bongs.

If weed isn't your thing, consider any conflicting thoughts you have (food you continue to eat despite telling "yourself" you shouldn't be, etc.) and ask yourself why one mind would be so conflicted about something you KNOW to be true. "I" know that I wouldn't have passed a p*ss test in such a short amount of time, but "I" thought I might be able to get away with it, until "I" talked some sense into "myself".

3. Consider being "of two minds" about something or "changing your mind". Like, don't you ever just sit there and talk to yourself in your mind (I hope so or I must be f*cked up lol). How can this possibly be unless there are more than one mind in our brain? How can something (a mind) think to itself, and then rebut?

Reading back over this now, I know it's not going to make much sense to those reading it, and I welcome all insults as much as insights. I know what I mean but am finding it hard to put into words.

It's one mind. It has conflicting goals, yes, and your consciousness only had limited control over what your body actually does, but it's still one mind.
So prove me wrong, then.
tkubok
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11/5/2009 12:50:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
We have one brain, one mind. Its not as if people with multiple personalities have two people talking at the same time. its always one at a time. One mind.
NotPurpleHaze
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11/5/2009 2:49:47 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I reckon smoking weed gave me another mind. I don't know if any of ye have ever played "call of duty 5" but there a zombie game in it where you just keep shooting until they get you. When I'm normal my average is about level 16 and 19 has been my highest, but when I'm stoned my average is about 26 and I made it to 32. If you knew the game you'd know that to be a huge difference. So yeah.....
Republican95
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11/5/2009 4:26:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Maybe we only have one mind, which is the center of rationality and logic in our bodies.

However, we have a conscious that is always trying to persuade our mind into doing whatever it thinks is right and moral to do.

When the interests of the mind and conscious conflict then we engage in dialouges similar to what leet said in Round 1.

Of course, this begs the question if we have a conscious then morality must be objective and if it is objective then that means somebody has a final say in morality, and nobody could have a final say in morality in, um, a deity of some sort?
Puck
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11/5/2009 4:31:44 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/5/2009 4:26:41 PM, Republican95 wrote:
Maybe we only have one mind, which is the center of rationality and logic in our bodies.

However, we have a conscious that is always trying to persuade our mind into doing whatever it thinks is right and moral to do.

When the interests of the mind and conscious conflict then we engage in dialouges similar to what leet said in Round 1.

Of course, this begs the question if we have a conscious then morality must be objective and if it is objective then that means somebody has a final say in morality, and nobody could have a final say in morality in, um, a deity of some sort?

Fail. Our 'conscious' is merely a mental evaluation of concepts we hold in relation to doing something. It's not something we are born with, nor does it exist unattached from our mind itself. Given your profile, your 'conscious' would 'tell' you quite different things than mine. :)
Ragnar_Rahl
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11/5/2009 4:37:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Btw.

over 9000.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
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11/6/2009 10:14:32 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Also, the whole talking to yourself, and thinking in language is all done on one side.

Those who have their Corpus Collosum cut, splitting the two, will sometimes think and talk one way, as their hand moves another.

lol. Like I read about one lady who apparently was attracted to her interviewer because as he was asking her questions, she was answering, all in the process of unbuttoning her blouse, apparently unaware of her behavior.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."