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I never took debate in school.

daniel_t
Posts: 16
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11/9/2009 8:24:17 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I'm in a debate on another site and something came up that I'm confused about. I thought I understood the nature of "burden of proof" but the person I'm debating with is requiring more from me as follows:
~~~~~~~~~~
Drafterman: Show that free will exists.

Daniel: What do you mean by free will? First free will must be defined such that the property of existence, or its lack, is meaningful.

Drafterman: I agree that it must be defined. I disagree that it's my job to define it. It's the job of the person asserting it's existence.

Daniel: [Defines "free will" in such a way that it can be shown to exist, and then shows that it does exist.]

Drafterman: I doubt that anyone else that uses the term means it in that way.

Daniel: True, which is why I asked you what your definition was.

[For the below, read "assumption" as "definition"]

Drafterman: My assumptions are irrelevant to any arguments other people are making. This is why I left my assumptions unsaid: they're irrelevant. All that matters are your assumptions, which should be part of the package of your argument, which is why I asked for it. Discussions about my assumptions are red herrings.

Daniel: If only my assumption of the nature of free will is relevant (because I am the one making the assertion,) then you must now accept that free will exists simply because I defined it as such. No more of this nonsense about how my definition is wrong please, you have explicitly said that your assumptions about the definition of free will are not relevant to the argument I'm making.
~~~~~~~~~~

Am I missing something here?
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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11/9/2009 8:26:26 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Nope, you win the debate. Everything is in order.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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11/9/2009 8:33:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
daniel_t has not been in any debates.
is that directed at me?
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/9/2009 8:57:44 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
You win the debate. I believe it's termed a "semantic argument". Anyone who disagrees can come debate us about it. I doubt there's a community outside of this one that is more qualified a bunch to rule on debate tactics :P
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Alex
Posts: 2,058
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11/9/2009 9:09:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/9/2009 8:57:44 PM, Kleptin wrote:
You win the debate. I believe it's termed a "semantic argument". Anyone who disagrees can come debate us about it. I doubt there's a community outside of this one that is more qualified a bunch to rule on debate tactics :P

haha agreed.
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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11/9/2009 9:26:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/9/2009 8:24:17 PM, daniel_t wrote:
I'm in a debate on another site...

Is it a debate site or just a site where you happen to be engaged in a debate?
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
tmhustler
Posts: 68
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11/9/2009 10:20:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
If you want a real online debate this is the place to do it.

curious tho what as this other site
latest debate http://www.debate.org...
purpose of education only 3 votes so far
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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11/9/2009 11:49:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/9/2009 10:20:32 PM, tmhustler wrote:
If you want a real online debate this is the place to do it.

curious tho what as this other site

I have a bridge to sell...
daniel_t
Posts: 16
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11/10/2009 7:16:17 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/9/2009 9:26:04 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 11/9/2009 8:24:17 PM, daniel_t wrote:

I'm in a debate on another site...

Is it a debate site or just a site where you happen to be engaged in a debate?

It's just a mailing list. When I come back from my vacation in the boonies, maybe I will present my take on free will here. I have covered the subject in several different philosophy mailing lists so far.
Lwerd
Posts: 145
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11/10/2009 3:33:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 7:16:17 AM, daniel_t wrote:
At 11/9/2009 9:26:04 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 11/9/2009 8:24:17 PM, daniel_t wrote:

I'm in a debate on another site...

Is it a debate site or just a site where you happen to be engaged in a debate?

It's just a mailing list. When I come back from my vacation in the boonies, maybe I will present my take on free will here. I have covered the subject in several different philosophy mailing lists so far.

As long as your take is that free will doesn't exist, you win.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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11/10/2009 5:55:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 3:33:09 PM, Lwerd wrote:
At 11/10/2009 7:16:17 AM, daniel_t wrote:
At 11/9/2009 9:26:04 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 11/9/2009 8:24:17 PM, daniel_t wrote:

I'm in a debate on another site...

Is it a debate site or just a site where you happen to be engaged in a debate?

It's just a mailing list. When I come back from my vacation in the boonies, maybe I will present my take on free will here. I have covered the subject in several different philosophy mailing lists so far.

As long as your take is that free will doesn't exist, you win.

Unless the other guy has a better argument. A position cannot guarantee victory in and of itself.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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11/10/2009 7:14:20 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Unless the other guy has a better argument. A position cannot guarantee victory in and of itself.

She's just saying that it's so obvious free will doesn't exist...in other words, she's messing around.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/11/2009 12:20:29 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/10/2009 7:14:20 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Unless the other guy has a better argument. A position cannot guarantee victory in and of itself.

She's just saying that it's so obvious free will doesn't exist...in other words, she's messing around.

The fact that you had to clarify that I was kidding absolutely astounds me. Is this what we've come to around here? Wow. It will be interesting to see the new overly PC attitude that DDO now takes.
President of DDO