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Voters getting really annoying on DDO

brett.winstead
Posts: 34
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6/30/2013 10:39:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Let's face it. No one ever actually "wins" a debate. They simply offer their viewpoint and people can listen or not and take in the information. There is no winner or loser. Having said that, DDO likes for people to vote and declare a "winner" and I am fine with that. The problem is with the voters. Many on this site are just clueless when it comes to voting in that point system. In my very first debate, I had someone vote against me, not because of the actual debate but because they disagreed with a point one of the other voters voted on and decided to counter their vote. What? I pointed out to them that their job as a voter was not to vote for or against other voters but to vote on the ACTUAL DEBATE. They agreed and changed their vote but still...why did I have to bring it up?

Now, I have had people voting for my opponent in the unimportant (some agree) spelling and grammar category. I find these votes highly annoying because I have destroyed every debater I finished debating in this category simply because I am a spelling and grammar Nazi! I do not ever misspell anything (unless I hit a typo and forget to proofread). On the other hand, I have opponents writing in all sorts of misspelled words and run-on sentences and getting votes in the "spelling and grammar" category! What? I just had someone admit they agreed with my side of the debate and still voted for my opponent in the "more convincing arguments" part when that was simply impossible. Only someone with a highly biased, preconceived point of view (we all have them) could possibly have thought my opponent had more convincing arguments. I know that is my opinion but still...it was obvious.

Lastly, I forfeited a round with one opponent (who was not even debating) because I never got the email alert from this site and run out of time. A voter gave my opponent a vote in the "conduct" category citing that reason! Conduct?

Makes me halfway wish there was no voting system. I just had to vent because if this is happening in my debates, it is surely happening all over this site. I cannot take the voting very seriously.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/30/2013 10:46:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You got them to change their votes and you're still complaining? Try having a bloc of Christians who do nothing except vote for their side in whatever religious or even philosophical debate they can find that questions some assumptions of their faith (Gileandos & medic immediately come to mind). Or better yet, try having an even larger bloc of conservatives that do the same on any remotely political or ideological debate. These people don't change their votes.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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6/30/2013 11:08:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/30/2013 10:39:09 AM, brett.winstead wrote:
Let's face it. No one ever actually "wins" a debate. They simply offer their viewpoint and people can listen or not and take in the information. There is no winner or loser.

Of course someone wins a debate, at least a formal one that you see with live debate or a set-up one that you see on DDO. One wins by more effectively arguing their case and rebutting the opponent's case. At the end of the day, debates are usually meant for the spectator's benefit to decide who won, not for the opponents. But I digress.

Having said that, DDO likes for people to vote and declare a "winner" and I am fine with that. The problem is with the voters. Many on this site are just clueless when it comes to voting in that point system. In my very first debate, I had someone vote against me, not because of the actual debate but because they disagreed with a point one of the other voters voted on and decided to counter their vote. What? I pointed out to them that their job as a voter was not to vote for or against other voters but to vote on the ACTUAL DEBATE. They agreed and changed their vote but still...why did I have to bring it up?

I suppose I would agree, if they just simply said "I disagree." However, things like votebombing are an issue.

Now, I have had people voting for my opponent in the unimportant (some agree) spelling and grammar category. I find these votes highly annoying because I have destroyed every debater I finished debating in this category simply because I am a spelling and grammar Nazi! I do not ever misspell anything (unless I hit a typo and forget to proofread). On the other hand, I have opponents writing in all sorts of misspelled words and run-on sentences and getting votes in the "spelling and grammar" category! What? I just had someone admit they agreed with my side of the debate and still voted for my opponent in the "more convincing arguments" part when that was simply impossible. Only someone with a highly biased, preconceived point of view (we all have them) could possibly have thought my opponent had more convincing arguments. I know that is my opinion but still...it was obvious.

You're right, it IS your opinion, just as it is the opinion of the voters. Of course, most voters have common sense and tie S/G. But still, that's an issue you should take up with individual voters. And, if it REALLY is such a dire issue, just have it pre-agreed between you two that S/G will be tied. Believe me, voters take debater agreements as the supreme law. If you say "Tie everything but args," with your opponent agreeing, that is what voters will do.

Lastly, I forfeited a round with one opponent (who was not even debating) because I never got the email alert from this site and run out of time. A voter gave my opponent a vote in the "conduct" category citing that reason! Conduct?

That's a pretty standard convention, actually. Unless otherwise agreed (FF a round FFs the whole debate, or don't take FFs into consideration), if someone FFs, they lose conduct by default, usually.

Also, if you're concerned about your debate's time, I'd suggest not relying on the email alerts at all. If you know how much time there is to post an argument, just keep it in mind and check back every now and again if you need a reminder. Or, if you don't have time or just don't want to do much else with DDO besides debate, go ahead and write yourself a note, leave yourself your OWN personal reminder.

Makes me halfway wish there was no voting system. I just had to vent because if this is happening in my debates, it is surely happening all over this site. I cannot take the voting very seriously.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
brett.winstead
Posts: 34
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6/30/2013 11:09:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/30/2013 10:46:26 AM, 000ike wrote:
You got them to change their votes and you're still complaining? Try having a bloc of Christians who do nothing except vote for their side in whatever religious or even philosophical debate they can find that questions some assumptions of their faith (Gileandos & medic immediately come to mind). Or better yet, try having an even larger bloc of conservatives that do the same on any remotely political or ideological debate. These people don't change their votes.

Ok, I guess I should be thankful that one did change their vote after I pointed out the lack of logic in their own reasoning. As for convervatives (I am one), you could make the same arguments about the liberal left wing. Many will probably not even read the debates and just cast their votes and I am sure conservatives will do the same. You cannot take the voting too seriously on this site.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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6/30/2013 11:19:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Votebombing is a serious issue. But this post didn't seem to be about that. The thing about votes is, of course you don't think you lost. Hardly anybody ever does. If you take issue with an RFD, you should ask for clarification. And sometimes someone will change their vote because they might have misunderstood something.

But when you don't think forfeiting a round because of something that's your fault warrants a loss of the conduct point...it really makes me question the merit of any other complaints you might have, as well.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
sadolite
Posts: 8,834
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6/30/2013 3:24:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Switch to the opinion section and quit debating for points and make points instead.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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6/30/2013 11:37:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Many people only award the spelling and grammar category if they think that the S&G errors got in the way of following the debate. So being perfect versus having a half dozen minor errors will often produce a tie in that category.

Forfeiting is like failing to show up for an in-person debate. I doesn't matter whether or not you had a really good excuse, if you don't show up that's a conduct fault. The debate can still be won, especially if your opponent decides not to pile on arguments after the forfeit.

Counter vote bombing seems to me to be legitimate, but only if it is very clear that the original vote was not based upon the debate. People sometimes say they are voting for spite, or some other irrelevant reason.