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A Quandry

Lexicaholic
Posts: 526
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1/13/2010 8:09:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It is a pastime of mine to develop thought experiments, and I have thought of one that has been on my mind as of late: given a choice, would you prefer to be right (i.e. know the truth, do what needed to be done, tell others the truth, etc) and shunned the rest of your life, or wrong (advocating what you know to be false or incorrect, supporting actions you do not believe will succeed or will cause harm) and universally admired?
http://mastersofcreationrpg.com... - My new site and long-developed project. Should be fun.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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1/13/2010 8:18:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 8:09:35 PM, Lexicaholic wrote:
It is a pastime of mine to develop thought experiments, and I have thought of one that has been on my mind as of late: given a choice, would you prefer to be right (i.e. know the truth, do what needed to be done, tell others the truth, etc) and shunned the rest of your life, or wrong (advocating what you know to be false or incorrect, supporting actions you do not believe will succeed or will cause harm) and universally admired?

I would prefer to be right and shunned the rest of my life.

Fakes = unadmirable in my book.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/13/2010 8:20:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Though it would be brilliant to be universally admired, I think in a lot of cases, a lot of people would choose the former - telling the truth and shunned. This is because some couldn't stand making a willful falsity, even if it means being universally loved - lying to themselves simply takes too much out of them. They could probably do it for awhile, but sometimes your own personal reflections of yourself matter more than outside perception.

Personally, I wouldn't know what I would choose. I'd like to say that I wouldn't lie, but having a positive outside perception is very important to me.
Lexicaholic
Posts: 526
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1/13/2010 8:28:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well, for my own part I would offer that I have always lived by the precept that truth should be my foremost concern ... though I have begun to wonder if this is correct.
http://mastersofcreationrpg.com... - My new site and long-developed project. Should be fun.
Frodobaggins
Posts: 602
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1/13/2010 8:33:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Different Quandry: You're amish, you love your family, yet you do not want live like the amish. The amish shun you if you turn away from their religion.

What do you do?
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/13/2010 8:43:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Relative to what?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
ToastOfDestiny
Posts: 990
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1/13/2010 8:49:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'd go with the falsity because it allows me th possibility to develop greater truths in the future.
At 10/11/2009 8:28:18 PM, banker wrote:
Our demise and industrial destruction
At 10/11/2009 10:00:21 PM, regebro wrote:
Only exists in your head, as already shown.

At 10/11/2009 8:28:18 PM, banker wrote:
reveal why you answer with a question mark
At 10/11/2009 10:00:21 PM, regebro wrote:
Because it was a question.

RFDs Pl0x:
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/13/2010 8:52:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
In any case, this isn't exactly a quandary coming from what I believe to be true. The probability is rather low that I haven't already made the former choice, assuming I am correct. And rather btw means millions to one.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Frodobaggins
Posts: 602
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1/13/2010 8:55:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 8:43:33 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Relative to what?

The time period, circumstance, etc.

It was a truth that the earth revolved around the sun, obviously the new truth is that the earth revolves around the sun. Kindergarten teachers tell their students columbus discovered America, that you can't do anything with a remainder, that cursive is useful throughout life, etc.

I'll leave you with a famous line.

"Remember Jerry, its not a lie if you believe it."
Lexicaholic
Posts: 526
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1/13/2010 9:07:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 8:33:41 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
Different Quandry: You're amish, you love your family, yet you do not want live like the amish. The amish shun you if you turn away from their religion.

What do you do?

I do what I did in high school ... and live as I choose.

(The facts were slightly different, but I did declare myself agnostic in high school, and cease going to church)
http://mastersofcreationrpg.com... - My new site and long-developed project. Should be fun.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/13/2010 9:12:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 8:55:51 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
At 1/13/2010 8:43:33 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Relative to what?

The time period, circumstance, etc.

It was a truth that the earth revolved around the sun
No. It wasn't. You're confusing truth with belief, putting a redundant word for one concept while leaving another concept, that has historical claim to that word, wordless.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Frodobaggins
Posts: 602
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1/13/2010 9:13:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 9:07:33 PM, Lexicaholic wrote:
At 1/13/2010 8:33:41 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
Different Quandry: You're amish, you love your family, yet you do not want live like the amish. The amish shun you if you turn away from their religion.

What do you do?

I do what I did in high school ... and live as I choose.

(The facts were slightly different, but I did declare myself agnostic in high school, and cease going to church)

No you misunderstand, the amish do not say another word to the person they shun, ever again, they don't even look at that person. I mean not once. Ever. For the rest of your life no matter what.
Lexicaholic
Posts: 526
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1/13/2010 9:16:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 9:13:20 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
At 1/13/2010 9:07:33 PM, Lexicaholic wrote:
At 1/13/2010 8:33:41 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
Different Quandry: You're amish, you love your family, yet you do not want live like the amish. The amish shun you if you turn away from their religion.

What do you do?

I do what I did in high school ... and live as I choose.

(The facts were slightly different, but I did declare myself agnostic in high school, and cease going to church)

No you misunderstand, the amish do not say another word to the person they shun, ever again, they don't even look at that person. I mean not once. Ever. For the rest of your life no matter what.

Same result, at least for some of my family (and most of my friends) ... I would question how many Amish actually do this, however, knowing as I do at least one actual ex-Amish person.
http://mastersofcreationrpg.com... - My new site and long-developed project. Should be fun.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/14/2010 5:31:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 8:33:41 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
Different Quandry: You're amish, you love your family, yet you do not want live like the amish. The amish shun you if you turn away from their religion.

What do you do?

Contact a leading atheist or a atheist organisation and relocate to some other place. As a man, amish law demands that my wife and kids are subservient to me. So if they retained their amish views they are still with me, if they do not they can not return to the amish. Well its a theory.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
DevinKing
Posts: 206
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1/14/2010 2:35:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 8:55:51 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
At 1/13/2010 8:43:33 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Relative to what?

The time period, circumstance, etc.

It was a truth that the earth revolved around the sun, obviously the new truth is that the earth revolves around the sun. Kindergarten teachers tell their students columbus discovered America, that you can't do anything with a remainder, that cursive is useful throughout life, etc.

I'll leave you with a famous line.

"Remember Jerry, its not a lie if you believe it."

--Truth is *never* relative. As far as the teachers, when I get told something that I know is false then I call them aout on it. Usually it is not offensive if you do it after class or at some other time.

--Lies are not: "something that is not true". What a lie is, is when somebody knows that they are wrong and still makes the statement. It is not a lie if you believe it, however, that does not make it true.
After demonstrating his existence with complete certainty with the proposition "I think, therefore I am", Descartes walks into a bar, sitting next to a gorgeous priest. The priest asks Descartes, "Would you like a drink?" Descartes responds, "I think not," and then proceeds to vanish in a puff of illogic.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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1/14/2010 4:43:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If I didn't know I was wrong I'd have no problem with being wrong and living in fame. Like Aristotle. It sucks to be right and shunned. See Galileo.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/14/2010 4:53:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/13/2010 9:12:00 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

No. It wasn't. You're confusing truth with belief, putting a redundant word for one concept while leaving another concept, that has historical claim to that word, wordless.

Si.
President of DDO