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johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/16/2014 8:31:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I need to resolve a mystery which I am finding very difficult to understand.
I don't believe there is any conclusive answer but maybe some fresh opinions can shed a new light.

My mother nearly got robbed at home last year.

So she decided to keep her jewellery in what she thought was a safe place to keep it. The safe in my dads company,

Only two people have the key to this safe. My step brother and my mum and dad's friend for over thirty years also has a key.

Both my parents are adamant that the jewellery was put into the safe way back last May. about 8 months ago, lets just say the jewellery is very very valuable, running into over a 100.000 pounds.

When my mum asked if the jewellery was in the safe, my dads friend went and checked and lo and behold, there was no jewellery. My step brother offered to reimburse my mother. But wait.

My mum accused my dads mate, who I don't believe would have taken the possessions, my dads mate accused my mother of trying to pull a fast one believing she has either misplaced and knows she lost it or either had it stolen and knows it was stolen, and she is trying to lay the blame on the company.

The thing is I actually believe all party's are innocent.

What do you guy's think?
XLAV
Posts: 13,719
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2/16/2014 8:38:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 8:31:29 AM, johnlubba wrote:
I need to resolve a mystery which I am finding very difficult to understand.
I don't believe there is any conclusive answer but maybe some fresh opinions can shed a new light.

My mother nearly got robbed at home last year.


So she decided to keep her jewellery in what she thought was a safe place to keep it. The safe in my dads company,

Only two people have the key to this safe. My step brother and my mum and dad's friend for over thirty years also has a key.


Both my parents are adamant that the jewellery was put into the safe way back last May. about 8 months ago, lets just say the jewellery is very very valuable, running into over a 100.000 pounds.

When my mum asked if the jewellery was in the safe, my dads friend went and checked and lo and behold, there was no jewellery. My step brother offered to reimburse my mother. But wait.

My mum accused my dads mate, who I don't believe would have taken the possessions, my dads mate accused my mother of trying to pull a fast one believing she has either misplaced and knows she lost it or either had it stolen and knows it was stolen, and she is trying to lay the blame on the company.

The thing is I actually believe all party's are innocent.

What do you guy's think?
Maybe you took the jewelry and made this thread to look innocent.
SeventhProfessor
Posts: 5,090
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2/16/2014 9:40:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 8:38:21 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 2/16/2014 8:31:29 AM, johnlubba wrote:
I need to resolve a mystery which I am finding very difficult to understand.
I don't believe there is any conclusive answer but maybe some fresh opinions can shed a new light.

My mother nearly got robbed at home last year.


So she decided to keep her jewellery in what she thought was a safe place to keep it. The safe in my dads company,

Only two people have the key to this safe. My step brother and my mum and dad's friend for over thirty years also has a key.


Both my parents are adamant that the jewellery was put into the safe way back last May. about 8 months ago, lets just say the jewellery is very very valuable, running into over a 100.000 pounds.

When my mum asked if the jewellery was in the safe, my dads friend went and checked and lo and behold, there was no jewellery. My step brother offered to reimburse my mother. But wait.

My mum accused my dads mate, who I don't believe would have taken the possessions, my dads mate accused my mother of trying to pull a fast one believing she has either misplaced and knows she lost it or either had it stolen and knows it was stolen, and she is trying to lay the blame on the company.

The thing is I actually believe all party's are innocent.

What do you guy's think?
Maybe you took the jewelry and made this thread to look innocent.
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johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/16/2014 9:53:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 9:42:58 AM, XLAV wrote:
If you truly belive all parties are innocent, then it must be a master theif.

Best answewr yet

Or the other option is that my mum and dad are mistaken and have misplaced the items instead of actaully putting it in the safe.

But I think that is highly unlikely seeing as the value is extreme I am sure they would been sure where they placed that amount of valuables.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/16/2014 9:54:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 9:40:57 AM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
At 2/16/2014 8:38:21 AM, XLAV wrote:
At 2/16/2014 8:31:29 AM, johnlubba wrote:
I need to resolve a mystery which I am finding very difficult to understand.
I don't believe there is any conclusive answer but maybe some fresh opinions can shed a new light.

My mother nearly got robbed at home last year.


So she decided to keep her jewellery in what she thought was a safe place to keep it. The safe in my dads company,

Only two people have the key to this safe. My step brother and my mum and dad's friend for over thirty years also has a key.


Both my parents are adamant that the jewellery was put into the safe way back last May. about 8 months ago, lets just say the jewellery is very very valuable, running into over a 100.000 pounds.

When my mum asked if the jewellery was in the safe, my dads friend went and checked and lo and behold, there was no jewellery. My step brother offered to reimburse my mother. But wait.

My mum accused my dads mate, who I don't believe would have taken the possessions, my dads mate accused my mother of trying to pull a fast one believing she has either misplaced and knows she lost it or either had it stolen and knows it was stolen, and she is trying to lay the blame on the company.

The thing is I actually believe all party's are innocent.

What do you guy's think?
Maybe you took the jewelry and made this thread to look innocent.

Nice bro just nice.
NightofTheLivingCats
Posts: 2,294
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2/16/2014 9:55:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 9:53:47 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 2/16/2014 9:39:13 AM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:
It sounds like yer mom.


Why

The timing of her call and Shiit. I'm busy I can't go to much detail.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/16/2014 9:56:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 9:55:29 AM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:
At 2/16/2014 9:53:47 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 2/16/2014 9:39:13 AM, NightofTheLivingCats wrote:
It sounds like yer mom.


Why

The timing of her call and Shiit. I'm busy I can't go to much detail.

Ok, thanks anyway
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/17/2014 4:44:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 10:33:00 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
There is no possible way I could guess who the culprit is based on the minimal information provided.

Hey where have you been, Haven't seen you active in a while.

I don'tsee what else there is to provide, even after hours of mulling over the topic myself it still seems impossible to naraoow it down and nail it somebody.

But I think on the information I have provided you could at least take a guess. I mean what else exactly do you want to know.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/17/2014 8:49:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 4:44:06 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 2/16/2014 10:33:00 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
There is no possible way I could guess who the culprit is based on the minimal information provided.


Hey where have you been, Haven't seen you active in a while.

I don'tsee what else there is to provide, even after hours of mulling over the topic myself it still seems impossible to naraoow it down and nail it somebody.

But I think on the information I have provided you could at least take a guess. I mean what else exactly do you want to know.

So, this is a true event in your life, or hypothetical?

Regardless, it would help to know the following:
1. Are your parents married and on good terms? (you said mum and father's business safe, right?)
2. What kind of business does you dad run?
3. Why not have a safe at home, or use a safety deposit box at a bank?
4. How many employees work for the company?
5. Where is the safe?
6. A key, as in it is a simple key to open the safe, not a combination?

That would be good to start with.
My work here is, finally, done.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/17/2014 9:51:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 8:49:10 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/17/2014 4:44:06 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 2/16/2014 10:33:00 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
There is no possible way I could guess who the culprit is based on the minimal information provided.


Hey where have you been, Haven't seen you active in a while.

I don'tsee what else there is to provide, even after hours of mulling over the topic myself it still seems impossible to naraoow it down and nail it somebody.

But I think on the information I have provided you could at least take a guess. I mean what else exactly do you want to know.

So, this is a true event in your life, or hypothetical?

Regardless, it would help to know the following:
1. Are your parents married and on good terms? (you said mum and father's business safe, right?)
2. What kind of business does you dad run?
3. Why not have a safe at home, or use a safety deposit box at a bank?
4. How many employees work for the company?
5. Where is the safe?
6. A key, as in it is a simple key to open the safe, not a combination?

That would be good to start with.

1 Yes my parents are on good terms and have been married 25 years
2 The business is a waste disposal recycling site, AKA a rubbish yard.
3 They do have a safe at home, but like I already mentioned they nearly got burgled by thieves who tried to force their way in the house.
4 about twenty but only two had the key's.
5 right in the front of the building where any idiot can see it.
6 Key
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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2/17/2014 11:02:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 9:51:03 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 2/17/2014 8:49:10 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 2/17/2014 4:44:06 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 2/16/2014 10:33:00 AM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
There is no possible way I could guess who the culprit is based on the minimal information provided.


Hey where have you been, Haven't seen you active in a while.

I don'tsee what else there is to provide, even after hours of mulling over the topic myself it still seems impossible to naraoow it down and nail it somebody.

But I think on the information I have provided you could at least take a guess. I mean what else exactly do you want to know.

So, this is a true event in your life, or hypothetical?

Regardless, it would help to know the following:
1. Are your parents married and on good terms? (you said mum and father's business safe, right?)
2. What kind of business does you dad run?
3. Why not have a safe at home, or use a safety deposit box at a bank?
4. How many employees work for the company?
5. Where is the safe?
6. A key, as in it is a simple key to open the safe, not a combination?

That would be good to start with.

1 Yes my parents are on good terms and have been married 25 years
i. How are the family finances?
2 The business is a waste disposal recycling site, AKA a rubbish yard.
i. How are the business finances?
3 They do have a safe at home, but like I already mentioned they nearly got burgled by thieves who tried to force their way in the house.
i. Are you a wealthy lot, or, at least appear to be by others?
ii. Has your father's business ever been burgaled or otherwise trespassed?
4 about twenty but only two had the key's.
5 right in the front of the building where any idiot can see it.
6 Key
My work here is, finally, done.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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2/17/2014 11:23:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 9:51:03 AM, johnlubba wrote:
Regardless, it would help to know the following:
1. Are your parents married and on good terms? (you said mum and father's business safe, right?)
2. What kind of business does you dad run?
3. Why not have a safe at home, or use a safety deposit box at a bank?
4. How many employees work for the company?
5. Where is the safe?
6. A key, as in it is a simple key to open the safe, not a combination?

That would be good to start with.

1 Yes my parents are on good terms and have been married 25 years
2 The business is a waste disposal recycling site, AKA a rubbish yard.
3 They do have a safe at home, but like I already mentioned they nearly got burgled by thieves who tried to force their way in the house.
4 about twenty but only two had the key's.
5 right in the front of the building where any idiot can see it.
6 Key

If I may:

7. How many pins is this key?
8. Can you give the brand and preferably model of the safe?
9. What kind of jewelry are we talking about, as in are we talking about 1 expensive item, or a box full of less-expensive-items that add up?
10. Was the jewelry in anything (such as a bag or box) and was that still in the safe?
Are the keys always on your step-brother's and your dad's mate's keyring, or are they on a separate fob that may be left in the office accidentally?
11. Who else knew about the jewelry? (Was it common company knowledge? Is your step-brother or your dad's mate married?)
12. How is your step-brother related to you and your parents? Is this your step-mother, as well?
13. I presume there was no visible damage to the safe. Further, you say there's only 2 keys--so this is your dad's business but your dad does not have a key? Why not?

With the information provided, a definitive answer is likely impossible. Which makes the question one of plausibility. If the safe is key-only, it's probably not a very secure one--most that I know of have combination or combination-and-key. I'm not trying to be mean about the safe, but I really can't think of a properly secure safe in terms of theft that's key-only (but hey, it's been a few years since I looked intently at safes, plus you're in England so your safe's probably metric or something...I kid).

Usually safes like that are more deterrent than actual prevention. Most safes that I know of that have keys are 4-pin locks. Those are relatively trivial to pick if you know what you're doing--the weight of the mechanism's more problem than the pins.

I know you already know the options, but it helps to list them. Without damage to the safe, and presuming truly only two known keys, here are the options:

A) Key person 1 took the item(s).
B) Key person 2 took the item(s).
C) Unknown person used Key Person 1 or 2s key to remove from safe.
D) Extra key exists
E) Safe was left unlocked
F) Lock was picked.
G) Jewelry was never in safe.

The last seems close enough to, to call impossible--I presume that the ones with keys helped put the jewelry in the safe.

The rest, however, are not. Each of them has possibility. That the lock was picked is the least plausible--in this day and age, I feel lockpicking is more of a curiosity than anything else.

If the items were stolen, it seems most plausible they were not stolen by a third party, as a third party has no need to hide the crime if they randomly stumbled upon the safe.

Thus: either accident or willful, it would seem most likely that someone affiliated with you or the business was involved.

If we take a look at events as you've described:

When my mum asked if the jewellery was in the safe

What made her ask?

my dads friend went and checked and lo and behold, there was no jewellery.

Good to know, events-wise, but unremarkable.

My step brother offered to reimburse my mother.

Right away? He wasn't interested in the mystery? Isn't that odd?

my dads mate accused my mother of trying to pull a fast one believing she has either misplaced and knows she lost it or either had it stolen and knows it was stolen, and she is trying to lay the blame on the company.

This does seem reasonable, both if he took it and is trying to deflect, but also if he knows he didn't take it. But of course, he probably isn't considering the possibility of someone taking the key from him, or from your step brother.

It's odd to me that you don't mention either of the parties with known keys being particularly concerned at the absence of an item that should be secure in the safe. Further, your dad's mate is implicitly blaming your step-brother, isn't he? Even if it was an error, lost by mistake, it would have had to be removed for that to happen. So unless he's alleging he remembers getting it for her, he's accusing your step-brother (implicilty) of removing the jewelry for her and forgetting about it, and that's the best case scenario of his theory.
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johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/17/2014 11:39:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 11:23:27 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 2/17/2014 9:51:03 AM, johnlubba wrote:
Regardless, it would help to know the following:
1. Are your parents married and on good terms? (you said mum and father's business safe, right?)
2. What kind of business does you dad run?
3. Why not have a safe at home, or use a safety deposit box at a bank?
4. How many employees work for the company?
5. Where is the safe?
6. A key, as in it is a simple key to open the safe, not a combination?

That would be good to start with.

1 Yes my parents are on good terms and have been married 25 years
2 The business is a waste disposal recycling site, AKA a rubbish yard.
3 They do have a safe at home, but like I already mentioned they nearly got burgled by thieves who tried to force their way in the house.
4 about twenty but only two had the key's.
5 right in the front of the building where any idiot can see it.
6 Key

If I may:

7. How many pins is this key?
8. Can you give the brand and preferably model of the safe?
9. What kind of jewelry are we talking about, as in are we talking about 1 expensive item, or a box full of less-expensive-items that add up?
10. Was the jewelry in anything (such as a bag or box) and was that still in the safe?
Are the keys always on your step-brother's and your dad's mate's keyring, or are they on a separate fob that may be left in the office accidentally?
11. Who else knew about the jewelry? (Was it common company knowledge? Is your step-brother or your dad's mate married?)
12. How is your step-brother related to you and your parents? Is this your step-mother, as well?
13. I presume there was no visible damage to the safe. Further, you say there's only 2 keys--so this is your dad's business but your dad does not have a key? Why not?

With the information provided, a definitive answer is likely impossible. Which makes the question one of plausibility. If the safe is key-only, it's probably not a very secure one--most that I know of have combination or combination-and-key. I'm not trying to be mean about the safe, but I really can't think of a properly secure safe in terms of theft that's key-only (but hey, it's been a few years since I looked intently at safes, plus you're in England so your safe's probably metric or something...I kid).

Usually safes like that are more deterrent than actual prevention. Most safes that I know of that have keys are 4-pin locks. Those are relatively trivial to pick if you know what you're doing--the weight of the mechanism's more problem than the pins.

I know you already know the options, but it helps to list them. Without damage to the safe, and presuming truly only two known keys, here are the options:

A) Key person 1 took the item(s).
B) Key person 2 took the item(s).
C) Unknown person used Key Person 1 or 2s key to remove from safe.
D) Extra key exists
E) Safe was left unlocked
F) Lock was picked.
G) Jewelry was never in safe.

The last seems close enough to, to call impossible--I presume that the ones with keys helped put the jewelry in the safe.

The rest, however, are not. Each of them has possibility. That the lock was picked is the least plausible--in this day and age, I feel lockpicking is more of a curiosity than anything else.

If the items were stolen, it seems most plausible they were not stolen by a third party, as a third party has no need to hide the crime if they randomly stumbled upon the safe.

Thus: either accident or willful, it would seem most likely that someone affiliated with you or the business was involved.

If we take a look at events as you've described:


When my mum asked if the jewellery was in the safe

What made her ask?

my dads friend went and checked and lo and behold, there was no jewellery.

Good to know, events-wise, but unremarkable.

My step brother offered to reimburse my mother.

Right away? He wasn't interested in the mystery? Isn't that odd?

my dads mate accused my mother of trying to pull a fast one believing she has either misplaced and knows she lost it or either had it stolen and knows it was stolen, and she is trying to lay the blame on the company.

This does seem reasonable, both if he took it and is trying to deflect, but also if he knows he didn't take it. But of course, he probably isn't considering the possibility of someone taking the key from him, or from your step brother.

It's odd to me that you don't mention either of the parties with known keys being particularly concerned at the absence of an item that should be secure in the safe. Further, your dad's mate is implicitly blaming your step-brother, isn't he? Even if it was an error, lost by mistake, it would have had to be removed for that to happen. So unless he's alleging he remembers getting it for her, he's accusing your step-brother (implicilty) of removing the jewelry for her and forgetting about it, and that's the best case scenario of his theory.

Very good Bladerunner Very good indeed, you covered almost as many aspects as I have even tho I have a much more upfront and personal relation to this issue. You are right on track and I am very impressed.

I will respond to this post in about an hour, I just have to finish up a few things at work. But I wanted to take the time to say thanks for your in-depth response, it is well thought out.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/17/2014 1:13:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 11:23:27 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 2/17/2014 9:51:03 AM, johnlubba wrote:
Regardless, it would help to know the following:
1. Are your parents married and on good terms? (you said mum and father's business safe, right?)
2. What kind of business does you dad run?
3. Why not have a safe at home, or use a safety deposit box at a bank?
4. How many employees work for the company?
5. Where is the safe?
6. A key, as in it is a simple key to open the safe, not a combination?

That would be good to start with.

1 Yes my parents are on good terms and have been married 25 years
2 The business is a waste disposal recycling site, AKA a rubbish yard.
3 They do have a safe at home, but like I already mentioned they nearly got burgled by thieves who tried to force their way in the house.
4 about twenty but only two had the key's.
5 right in the front of the building where any idiot can see it.
6 Key

If I may:

7. How many pins is this key?

Not sure but I know its a rather long key, longer than most keys.
8. Can you give the brand and preferably model of the safe?
Chubb safe, I can't seem to obtain the model number. But a bit more information is the safe is a big square chunk of solid grey steel box shaped and is cemented into the ground. The safe is almost or over twenty years old, but it seems to be a strong secure safe. I know it has six big pins that close when door when you turn the key, which three pins go in horizontal and the other three are vertical, securing both up and across the door of the safe.

9. What kind of jewelry are we talking about, as in are we talking about 1 expensive item, or a box full of less-expensive-items that add up?

A box full of a life times collection of possesions, rings bracelts, necklaces, watches and so on.

10. Was the jewelry in anything (such as a bag or box) and was that still in the safe?
The Jewls were kept in a rather large jewl box and the box was then kept inside a bag.

Are the keys always on your step-brother's and your dad's mate's keyring, or are they on a separate fob that may be left in the office accidentally?
They are on a bunch of key's which could have easily been left on the side due to carelessness and human error, which then it is possible someone rather brave took an audacious chance

11. Who else knew about the jewelry?
Not sure. But I would assume not many others, if any.

(Was it common company knowledge? Is your step-brother or your dad's mate married?)
Step brother yes, dads mate no

12. How is your step-brother related to you and your parents? Is this your step-mother, as well?

My mum is married to his dad, so he has no blood relation to my mum

13. I presume there was no visible damage to the safe.
Correct

Further, you say there's only 2 keys--so this is your dad's business but your dad does not have a key? Why not?

Well a bit of mis-information on my part, My step dad built up the business and then past it over to his real son about 4 years ago, Now my step dad is 74 and is does not have much responsibility, if any.

With the information provided, a definitive answer is likely impossible. Which makes the question one of plausibility. If the safe is key-only, it's probably not a very secure one--most that I know of have combination or combination-and-key. I'm not trying to be mean about the safe, but I really can't think of a properly secure safe in terms of theft that's key-only (but hey, it's been a few years since I looked intently at safes, plus you're in England so your safe's probably metric or something...I kid).

Usually safes like that are more deterrent than actual prevention. Most safes that I know of that have keys are 4-pin locks. Those are relatively trivial to pick if you know what you're doing--the weight of the mechanism's more problem than the pins.

I know you already know the options, but it helps to list them. Without damage to the safe, and presuming truly only two known keys, here are the options:

A) Key person 1 took the item(s).
B) Key person 2 took the item(s).
C) Unknown person used Key Person 1 or 2s key to remove from safe.
D) Extra key exists
E) Safe was left unlocked
F) Lock was picked.
G) Jewelry was never in safe.

The last seems close enough to, to call impossible--I presume that the ones with keys helped put the jewelry in the safe.

The rest, however, are not. Each of them has possibility. That the lock was picked is the least plausible--in this day and age, I feel lockpicking is more of a curiosity than anything else.

Ok I am surprised

If the items were stolen, it seems most plausible they were not stolen by a third party, as a third party has no need to hide the crime if they randomly stumbled upon the safe.

Interesting point

Thus: either accident or willful, it would seem most likely that someone affiliated with you or the business was involved.

If we take a look at events as you've described:


When my mum asked if the jewellery was in the safe

What made her ask?

Exactly, I am not sure

my dads friend went and checked and lo and behold, there was no jewellery.

Good to know, events-wise, but unremarkable.

My step brother offered to reimburse my mother.

Right away? He wasn't interested in the mystery? Isn't that odd?

I see your point but he came across as only wanting to please everybody and stop the inevitable pain that was to follow, in other words make right what is wrong

my dads mate accused my mother of trying to pull a fast one believing she has either misplaced and knows she lost it or either had it stolen and knows it was stolen, and she is trying to lay the blame on the company.

This does seem reasonable, both if he took it and is trying to deflect, but also if he knows he didn't take it

. But of course, he probably isn't considering the possibility of someone taking the key from him, or from your step brother.

Yes I don't think he wants to even consider that, in fact he reckons he can remember the jewls being taken back to the house and never returning to the company

It's odd to me that you don't mention either of the parties with known keys being particularly concerned at the absence of an item that should be secure in the safe. Further, your dad's mate is implicitly blaming your step-brother, isn't he?

I don't understand. Howe so?

Even if it was an error, lost by mistake, it would have had to be removed for that to happen. So unless he's alleging he remembers getting it for her, he's accusing your step-brother (implicilty) of removing the jewelry for her and forgetting about it,

Ah I see now, I think you mean my step dad, My dads friend claims he can remember my dad taking it back to the house and never returning it back to the business.

and that's the best case scenario of his theory.

Thanks.

With those skills you should definitely be on the side of theism, I'm just kidding I hope not to derail the thread.
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2/17/2014 2:03:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 11:39:32 AM, johnlubba wrote:
Very good Bladerunner Very good indeed, you covered almost as many aspects as I have even tho I have a much more upfront and personal relation to this issue. You are right on track and I am very impressed.

I will respond to this post in about an hour, I just have to finish up a few things at work. But I wanted to take the time to say thanks for your in-depth response, it is well thought out.

Thanks!

At 2/17/2014 1:13:47 PM, johnlubba wrote:
7. How many pins is this key?
Not sure but I know its a rather long key, longer than most keys.

8. Can you give the brand and preferably model of the safe?
Chubb safe, I can't seem to obtain the model number.

Something like this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org...

Chubb's a good brand, historically. Originally, Chubb was one of the pioneers of lock-making.

If it's that one, I think it's probably a 6 tumbler. There are like no Chubb safes in the States--at least not that I've ever encountered. I've found more UK-specific typewriter brands than lock/safe brands, and considering typerwriters are pretty much thrown out these days, that's saying something.

9. What kind of jewelry are we talking about, as in are we talking about 1 expensive item, or a box full of less-expensive-items that add up?

A box full of a life times collection of possesions, rings bracelts, necklaces, watches and so on.

10. Was the jewelry in anything (such as a bag or box) and was that still in the safe?
The Jewls were kept in a rather large jewl box and the box was then kept inside a bag.

Okay, so I'm assuming the box and bag are gone, as well?

Oh, and I assume the only things missing are the jewels? No other documents, etc.? Was there anything else in the safe anyway?

Are the keys always on your step-brother's and your dad's mate's keyring, or are they on a separate fob that may be left in the office accidentally?
They are on a bunch of key's which could have easily been left on the side due to carelessness and human error, which then it is possible someone rather brave took an audacious chance

Okay. Unlikely, but still possible. Plus, it took as long as 9 months to notice, so a perceptive criminal employee might have suspected as much. Still, I don't assign a high probability.

11. Who else knew about the jewelry?
Not sure. But I would assume not many others, if any.

(Was it common company knowledge? Is your step-brother or your dad's mate married?)
Step brother yes, dads mate no

Okay. So it's worth bearing that in mind...

12. How is your step-brother related to you and your parents? Is this your step-mother, as well?

My mum is married to his dad, so he has no blood relation to my mum

And that makes his dad your step-dad, correct? Just making sure I get the dynamics--it appears that way from what you say further on.

13. I presume there was no visible damage to the safe.
Correct

Further, you say there's only 2 keys--so this is your dad's business but your dad does not have a key? Why not?

Well a bit of mis-information on my part, My step dad built up the business and then past it over to his real son about 4 years ago, Now my step dad is 74 and is does not have much responsibility, if any.

Gotcha. Makes sense.

A) Key person 1 took the item(s).
B) Key person 2 took the item(s).
C) Unknown person used Key Person 1 or 2s key to remove from safe.
D) Extra key exists
E) Safe was left unlocked
F) Lock was picked.
G) Jewelry was never in safe.

The last seems close enough to, to call impossible--I presume that the ones with keys helped put the jewelry in the safe.

The rest, however, are not. Each of them has possibility. That the lock was picked is the least plausible--in this day and age, I feel lockpicking is more of a curiosity than anything else.

Ok I am surprised

At which part? The implausibility of lockpicking? Maybe it's just my anecdotal experience. I know pretty much nobody IRL who knows anything about it besides myself. Of course, in the US we have a lazy culture that likes to blow things up, so...

If the items were stolen, it seems most plausible they were not stolen by a third party, as a third party has no need to hide the crime if they randomly stumbled upon the safe.

Interesting point

Thus: either accident or willful, it would seem most likely that someone affiliated with you or the business was involved.
If we take a look at events as you've described:
When my mum asked if the jewellery was in the safe
What made her ask?
Exactly, I am not sure
Interesting.
My step brother offered to reimburse my mother.
Right away? He wasn't interested in the mystery? Isn't that odd?
I see your point but he came across as only wanting to please everybody and stop the inevitable pain that was to follow, in other words make right what is wrong

Was he going to take business money for this, or do an insurance claim?

my dads mate accused my mother of trying to pull a fast one believing she has either misplaced and knows she lost it or either had it stolen and knows it was stolen, and she is trying to lay the blame on the company.
This does seem reasonable, both if he took it and is trying to deflect, but also if he knows he didn't take it
But of course, he probably isn't considering the possibility of someone taking the key from him, or from your step brother.

Yes I don't think he wants to even consider that, in fact he reckons he can remember the jewls being taken back to the house and never returning to the company

Ah! A data point.

It's odd to me that you don't mention either of the parties with known keys being particularly concerned at the absence of an item that should be secure in the safe. Further, your dad's mate is implicitly blaming your step-brother, isn't he?

I don't understand. Howe so?

Even if it was an error, lost by mistake, it would have had to be removed for that to happen. So unless he's alleging he remembers getting it for her, he's accusing your step-brother (implicilty) of removing the jewelry for her and forgetting about it,

Ah I see now, I think you mean my step dad, My dads friend claims he can remember my dad taking it back to the house and never returning it back to the business.

Interesting. So clearly the chain of custody of the keys has some slop.

A point, though: if your dad did get the items, for your dad's friend to remember but for neither your step-brother nor your step-dad, nor your mum to remember seems odd. Granted, we could presume your mum's hiding her carelessness, but that still leaves 2 in that equation without a big motive to lie. So why don't they remember? And/or are they all in it together? And if so...why alienate the friend by having your mum throw accusations his way? Just as easily your step-brother could have had the key "stolen" from him. Nobody's fault, very unfortunate, moving along.

With those skills you should definitely be on the side of theism, I'm just kidding I hope not to derail the thread.

Lol. I love this kinda stuff. My brother calls me up occasionally and says "Mycroft, I have a problem for you..."--though I'm sure he's just flattering me to get me to cooperate, and I'm totally okay with that.
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johnlubba
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2/17/2014 4:10:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 2:03:57 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 2/17/2014 11:39:32 AM, johnlubba wrote:
Very good Bladerunner Very good indeed, you covered almost as many aspects as I have even tho I have a much more upfront and personal relation to this issue. You are right on track and I am very impressed.


At 2/17/2014 1:13:47 PM, johnlubba wrote:
7. How many pins is this key?
Not sure but I know its a rather long key, longer than most keys.


8. Can you give the brand and preferably model of the safe?
Chubb safe, I can't seem to obtain the model number.

Something like this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org...


Chubb's a good brand, historically. Originally, Chubb was one of the pioneers of lock-making.

If it's that one, I think it's probably a 6 tumbler. There are like no Chubb safes in the States--at least not that I've ever encountered. I've found more UK-specific typewriter brands than lock/safe brands, and considering typerwriters are pretty much thrown out these days, that's saying something.


9. What kind of jewelry are we talking about, as in are we talking about 1 expensive item, or a box full of less-expensive-items that add up?

A box full of a life times collection of possesions, rings bracelts, necklaces, watches and so on.

10. Was the jewelry in anything (such as a bag or box) and was that still in the safe?
The Jewls were kept in a rather large jewl box and the box was then kept inside a bag.

Okay, so I'm assuming the box and bag are gone, as well?

Oh, and I assume the only things missing are the jewels? No other documents, etc.? Was there anything else in the safe anyway?

Are the keys always on your step-brother's and your dad's mate's keyring, or are they on a separate fob that may be left in the office accidentally?
They are on a bunch of key's which could have easily been left on the side due to carelessness and human error, which then it is possible someone rather brave took an audacious chance

Okay. Unlikely, but still possible. Plus, it took as long as 9 months to notice, so a perceptive criminal employee might have suspected as much. Still, I don't assign a high probability.

11. Who else knew about the jewelry?
Not sure. But I would assume not many others, if any.

(Was it common company knowledge? Is your step-brother or your dad's mate married?)
Step brother yes, dads mate no

Okay. So it's worth bearing that in mind...

12. How is your step-brother related to you and your parents? Is this your step-mother, as well?

My mum is married to his dad, so he has no blood relation to my mum

And that makes his dad your step-dad, correct? Just making sure I get the dynamics--it appears that way from what you say further on.

13. I presume there was no visible damage to the safe.
Correct

Further, you say there's only 2 keys--so this is your dad's business but your dad does not have a key? Why not?

Well a bit of mis-information on my part, My step dad built up the business and then past it over to his real son about 4 years ago, Now my step dad is 74 and is does not have much responsibility, if any.

Gotcha. Makes sense.

A) Key person 1 took the item(s).
B) Key person 2 took the item(s).
C) Unknown person used Key Person 1 or 2s key to remove from safe.
D) Extra key exists
E) Safe was left unlocked
F) Lock was picked.
G) Jewelry was never in safe.

The last seems close enough to, to call impossible--I presume that the ones with keys helped put the jewelry in the safe.

The rest, however, are not. Each of them has possibility. That the lock was picked is the least plausible--in this day and age, I feel lockpicking is more of a curiosity than anything else.

Ok I am surprised

At which part? The implausibility of lockpicking? Maybe it's just my anecdotal experience. I know pretty much nobody IRL who knows anything about it besides myself. Of course, in the US we have a lazy culture that likes to blow things up, so...

If the items were stolen, it seems most plausible they were not stolen by a third party, as a third party has no need to hide the crime if they randomly stumbled upon the safe.

Interesting point

Thus: either accident or willful, it would seem most likely that someone affiliated with you or the business was involved.
If we take a look at events as you've described:
When my mum asked if the jewellery was in the safe
What made her ask?
Exactly, I am not sure
Interesting.
My step brother offered to reimburse my mother.
Right away? He wasn't interested in the mystery? Isn't that odd?
I see your point but he came across as only wanting to please everybody and stop the inevitable pain that was to follow, in other words make right what is wrong

Was he going to take business money for this, or do an insurance claim?

my dads mate accused my mother of trying to pull a fast one believing she has either misplaced and knows she lost it or either had it stolen and knows it was stolen, and she is trying to lay the blame on the company.
This does seem reasonable, both if he took it and is trying to deflect, but also if he knows he didn't take it
But of course, he probably isn't considering the possibility of someone taking the key from him, or from your step brother.

Yes I don't think he wants to even consider that, in fact he reckons he can remember the jewls being taken back to the house and never returning to the company

Ah! A data point.

It's odd to me that you don't mention either of the parties with known keys being particularly concerned at the absence of an item that should be secure in the safe. Further, your dad's mate is implicitly blaming your step-brother, isn't he?

I don't understand. Howe so?

Even if it was an error, lost by mistake, it would have had to be removed for that to happen. So unless he's alleging he remembers getting it for her, he's accusing your step-brother (implicilty) of removing the jewelry for her and forgetting about it,

Ah I see now, I think you mean my step dad, My dads friend claims he can remember my dad taking it back to the house and never returning it back to the business.

Interesting. So clearly the chain of custody of the keys has some slop.

A point, though: if your dad did get the items, for your dad's friend to remember but for neither your step-brother nor your step-dad, nor your mum to remember seems odd. Granted, we could presume your mum's hiding her carelessness, but that still leaves 2 in that equation without a big motive to lie. So why don't they remember? And/or are they all in it together? And if so...why alienate the friend by having your mum throw accusations his way? Just as easily your step-brother could have had the key "stolen" from him. Nobody's fault, very unfortunate, moving along.

With those skills you should definitely be on the side of theism, I'm just kidding I hope not to derail the thread.

Lol. I love this kinda stuff. My brother calls me up occasionally and says "Mycroft, I have a problem for you..."--though I'm sure he's just flattering me to get me to cooperate, and I'm totally okay with that.

Thanks Bladerunner, Excellent job again.
I will try to respond to this soon as I can get a chance, You have definitely offered a few new ideas and shed some light on the issue, plus it's always good to get an educated guess from an independant party.

Cheers
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2/20/2014 12:52:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 4:10:57 PM, johnlubba wrote:

I will try to respond to this soon as I can get a chance

Any new information?
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johnlubba
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2/20/2014 10:25:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/20/2014 12:52:36 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 2/17/2014 4:10:57 PM, johnlubba wrote:

I will try to respond to this soon as I can get a chance

Any new information?

Yes, But just before I begin let me just say that my mind has been working overtime since last week on this topic so I just needed a breather. But thanks for your concern. I will now try to fill in some blanks and answer some more questions.

Before I do I just want to give you some more information and see what you think.

A few days before (5) this happened, I was around my mum house and she mentioned that my nephew stole some jewllery from her, which she claims was a bag of loose jewls. accidently left outside the safe. And my mother then asked me not to mention this to my dad as it hurts that her grandson doesn't love her.

The next thing my boos who is my dads friend come into the office and looking distressed and asked me if I have heard, I said what. He said you mum called today and asked me to check if her jewls were in the safe, which he did and they weren't. my mum then starting to lay blame on him and everyone. Just imagine a woman going frantic. that's it.

The thing that bothers me is, Why would my mum leave her prize possessions in a safe at a rubbish yard since last may and not be concerned until now. I know my mum and she is the most paranoid and carful person when it comes to her possessions. And also the first time I spoke to her since I heard what happened she seemed more concerned about getting reimbursed from my step brother rather than grieving for the loss of the jewls.

Also she has asked me not to phone my brother abroad and tell him because she doesn't want him to worry.

Frankly that strikes me as bull shhhh as my mum is the most selfish person on the planet at times.

Sorry I haven't replied to the bulk of your questions,, The most I can focus on right now is light interaction, although I want to reply later tonight perhaps. but what do you make of this.

Also I told my dad that we should check the house properly and my dad said he asked my mum for the key to the safe at home so he can check it well and she started shouting at him he said.

Also can you send me a friend request please I tried to snd one to you but I am unable due to a glitch on my profile.
bladerunner060
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2/20/2014 10:58:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/20/2014 10:25:17 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 2/20/2014 12:52:36 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 2/17/2014 4:10:57 PM, johnlubba wrote:

I will try to respond to this soon as I can get a chance

Any new information?

Yes, But just before I begin let me just say that my mind has been working overtime since last week on this topic so I just needed a breather. But thanks for your concern. I will now try to fill in some blanks and answer some more questions.

No worries, I understand how things can get stressful. This saga has piqued my interest, hence my poking you about it.

Before I do I just want to give you some more information and see what you think.

A few days before (5) this happened, I was around my mum house and she mentioned that my nephew stole some jewllery from her, which she claims was a bag of loose jewls. accidently left outside the safe. And my mother then asked me not to mention this to my dad as it hurts that her grandson doesn't love her.

Well, see--that's bothersome.

Could mean several things--maybe she's lying about that, and actually sold the jewels, maybe she isn't, and your nephew did steal them.

But you should tell your dad what she told you. (see below)

The next thing my boos who is my dads friend come into the office and looking distressed and asked me if I have heard, I said what. He said you mum called today and asked me to check if her jewls were in the safe, which he did and they weren't. my mum then starting to lay blame on him and everyone. Just imagine a woman going frantic. that's it.

That seems more like projection, now. Like she's shifting blame away from the nephew (or, if she herself is the "thief", herself).

The thing that bothers me is, Why would my mum leave her prize possessions in a safe at a rubbish yard since last may and not be concerned until now. I know my mum and she is the most paranoid and carful person when it comes to her possessions. And also the first time I spoke to her since I heard what happened she seemed more concerned about getting reimbursed from my step brother rather than grieving for the loss of the jewls.

Well, I don't think we can judge her too harshly for putting her jewels in the safe, necessarily. It's part of the family business, after all, and is presumably secure.

With this new information you've given, though, regarding her claims about your nephew (and her desire that you cover it up), I don't really believe the jewels were in the safe.

Also she has asked me not to phone my brother abroad and tell him because she doesn't want him to worry.

This would be your nephew's dad?

I call shenanigans on all of this. Forgive me, but is your nephew, or do you at least suspect he might be, a drug addict? How old is he? Because most of the time kids don't just go around stealing jewels.

Frankly that strikes me as bull shhhh as my mum is the most selfish person on the planet at times.

Well, even if she wasn't, it would be suspicious. If she knows the kid (I'm presuming its a kid, but of course I don't know how old he is) stole at least some jewels, she should darn well be dealing with it--and it's your brother's kid.

Sorry I haven't replied to the bulk of your questions,, The most I can focus on right now is light interaction, although I want to reply later tonight perhaps. but what do you make of this.

Seriously, don't worry about it. I understand that it's stressful.

Also I told my dad that we should check the house properly and my dad said he asked my mum for the key to the safe at home so he can check it well and she started shouting at him he said.

Well that's odd. I'm assuming that he didn't get the key? It's your dad's choice and all, but if I had a house safe and my wife flipped out when I asked for the key, I would want the key even more, and definitely right there and then. I trust my wife completely, but that wouldn't be an appeal to my trust; it would seem unbalanced. By now I'd presume that if there was something she was hiding in there, it's long gone.

However, while I haven't utterly ruled out my previous theories, I believe that we now have a better idea of the most plausible scenario.

First: Your mother knows more about this than she has admitted to. That should be obvious. Even if she doesn't "know", but only "is pretty sure", she thinks she knows, at the very least.

And her behavior is certainly suspicious.

Which, I think, makes the two most plausible scenarios:

1. Your mother did this.
2. Your mother is trying to cover up who she thinks did this.

If it's 1, well, she did it. All of her behavior makes sense.

If it's 2, it still all makes sense.

Now, that doesn't preclude the other possibilities. Maybe your nephew stole some jewelry, but the other jewelry really was in the safe, which made her want to check the other jewelry, which made the theft get discovered, but your nephew didn't take it. I think that even if that is the case, though, her behavior shows she thinks he did it. Maybe he didn't steal any of the jewelry, but she had it all, and it was stolen, and she thinks he did it.

So the question is:
What's in the house safe? (Probably nothing weird at this point, but it should be checked),

Did your nephew really steal some other jewelry?

If he did...he probably needs to be confronted. He's a jewel thief. He's cost his grandparents a hefty sum of money, even if he didn't take what was supposed to be in the safe.

Any of this jewelry tagged? Newer diamonds have codes etched on them sometimes.

I know it's probably a tense situation. But were it me, Step 1 would be getting in that house safe. For all you know there's divorce papers in there, and she's been building a little pile of cash-through-theft for her escape. I'm not saying it's the case, I'm saying that you should start there. Find out, even though it's likely to be empty of anything important. People doing shady things get caught out for stupid reasons--my favorite example is always Son of Sam, who got caught because of a parking ticket. So while I would expect nothing, there seems to have likely been SOMETHING she didn't want seen, and if for some reason whatever-it-is is still there, you'll have a much clearer picture of the situation.

Step 2 is a touch family dynamics issue. I would say it would be a family meeting. You, your dad, your step-mother, and your step-brother, for sure. How close are you with your step-brother? I feel like your dad might, perhaps, be getting a bit old for such a confrontational meeting. Keep the friend out of it, and probably the nephew (but it's your family, you know the dynamics better) just because you're going to reveal to your dad and step-brother the whole "Claim of nephew as thief" thing, and emotions will run undoubtedly high--in an attempt to avoid engaging the actual problem (possibility of nephew as thief), they might seize on the FORMAT of the meeting (if you brought in the family friend). Expect your step-mom to flip out at you regardless.
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johnlubba
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2/20/2014 11:25:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/20/2014 10:58:36 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 2/20/2014 10:25:17 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 2/20/2014 12:52:36 AM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 2/17/2014 4:10:57 PM, johnlubba wrote:

I will try to respond to this soon as I can get a chance

Any new information?

Yes, But just before I begin let me just say that my mind has been working overtime since last week on this topic so I just needed a breather. But thanks for your concern. I will now try to fill in some blanks and answer some more questions.

No worries, I understand how things can get stressful. This saga has piqued my interest, hence my poking you about it.


Before I do I just want to give you some more information and see what you think.

A few days before (5) this happened, I was around my mum house and she mentioned that my nephew stole some jewllery from her, which she claims was a bag of loose jewls. accidently left outside the safe. And my mother then asked me not to mention this to my dad as it hurts that her grandson doesn't love her.

Well, see--that's bothersome.

Could mean several things--maybe she's lying about that, and actually sold the jewels, maybe she isn't, and your nephew did steal them.

But you should tell your dad what she told you. (see below)



The next thing my boos who is my dads friend come into the office and looking distressed and asked me if I have heard, I said what. He said you mum called today and asked me to check if her jewls were in the safe, which he did and they weren't. my mum then starting to lay blame on him and everyone. Just imagine a woman going frantic. that's it.

That seems more like projection, now. Like she's shifting blame away from the nephew (or, if she herself is the "thief", herself).

The thing that bothers me is, Why would my mum leave her prize possessions in a safe at a rubbish yard since last may and not be concerned until now. I know my mum and she is the most paranoid and carful person when it comes to her possessions. And also the first time I spoke to her since I heard what happened she seemed more concerned about getting reimbursed from my step brother rather than grieving for the loss of the jewls.

Well, I don't think we can judge her too harshly for putting her jewels in the safe, necessarily. It's part of the family business, after all, and is presumably secure.

With this new information you've given, though, regarding her claims about your nephew (and her desire that you cover it up), I don't really believe the jewels were in the safe.

Also she has asked me not to phone my brother abroad and tell him because she doesn't want him to worry.

This would be your nephew's dad?

Yes my nephews dad, My nephew is 21 and just had a new baby. also he wasn't really part of the family up until about five years ago, You could say he was raised by his mother alone until we accidently made contact with him about 5 years ago. So in other words I don't think he has that much of an emotional attachement to my mum, seeing as my mother is not really a people person really, he might have taken the opportunity to strike as some sort of vendetta for being forgotten about for so many years.

I call shenanigans on all of this. Forgive me, but is your nephew, or do you at least suspect he might be, a drug addict? How old is he? Because most of the time kids don't just go around stealing jewels.

Frankly that strikes me as bull shhhh as my mum is the most selfish person on the planet at times.

Well, even if she wasn't, it would be suspicious. If she knows the kid (I'm presuming its a kid, but of course I don't know how old he is) stole at least some jewels, she should darn well be dealing with it--and it's your brother's kid.

She told me it was a bag f loose jewls and when I asked what she just said don't ask, it hurts. On more than one occasion in the same conversation.

Sorry I haven't replied to the bulk of your questions,, The most I can focus on right now is light interaction, although I want to reply later tonight perhaps. but what do you make of this.

Seriously, don't worry about it. I understand that it's stressful.

Also I told my dad that we should check the house properly and my dad said he asked my mum for the key to the safe at home so he can check it well and she started shouting at him he said.

Well that's odd. I'm assuming that he didn't get the key?

No he didn't, you c
It's your dad's choice and all, but if I had a house safe and my wife flipped out when I asked for the key, I would want the key even more, and definitely right there and then. I trust my wife completely, but that wouldn't be an appeal to my trust; it would seem unbalanced. By now I'd presume that if there was something she was hiding in there, it's long gone.

However, while I haven't utterly ruled out my previous theories, I believe that we now have a better idea of the most plausible scenario.

First: Your mother knows more about this than she has admitted to. That should be obvious. Even if she doesn't "know", but only "is pretty sure", she thinks she knows, at the very least.

And her behavior is certainly suspicious.

Which, I think, makes the two most plausible scenarios:

1. Your mother did this.
2. Your mother is trying to cover up who she thinks did this.

If it's 1, well, she did it. All of her behavior makes sense.

If it's 2, it still all makes sense.

Now, that doesn't preclude the other possibilities. Maybe your nephew stole some jewelry, but the other jewelry really was in the safe, which made her want to check the other jewelry, which made the theft get discovered, but your nephew didn't take it. I think that even if that is the case, though, her behavior shows she thinks he did it. Maybe he didn't steal any of the jewelry, but she had it all, and it was stolen, and she thinks he did it.

So the question is:
What's in the house safe? (Probably nothing weird at this point, but it should be checked),

Did your nephew really steal some other jewelry?

If he did...he probably needs to be confronted. He's a jewel thief. He's cost his grandparents a hefty sum of money, even if he didn't take what was supposed to be in the safe.

Any of this jewelry tagged? Newer diamonds have codes etched on them sometimes.

I know it's probably a tense situation. But were it me, Step 1 would be getting in that house safe. For all you know there's divorce papers in there, and she's been building a little pile of cash-through-theft for her escape. I'm not saying it's the case, I'm saying that you should start there. Find out, even though it's likely to be empty of anything important. People doing shady things get caught out for stupid reasons--my favorite example is always Son of Sam, who got caught because of a parking ticket. So while I would expect nothing, there seems to have likely been SOMETHING she didn't want seen, and if for some reason whatever-it-is is still there, you'll have a much clearer picture of the situation.

Step 2 is a touch family dynamics issue. I would say it would be a family meeting. You, your dad, your step-mother, and your step-brother, for sure. How close are you with your step-brother? I feel like your dad might, perhaps, be getting a bit old for such a confrontational meeting. Keep the friend out of it, and probably the nephew (but it's your family, you know the dynamics better) just because you're going to reveal to your dad and step-brother the whole "Claim of nephew as thief" thing, and emotions will run undoubtedly high--in an attempt to avoid engaging the actual problem (possibility of nephew as thief), they might seize on the FORMAT of the meeting (i