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What If Dinosaurs Didn't Die Out?

bradv42
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1/28/2010 6:04:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Alright, before I start this, I just want to say that this has nothing to do with the evolution vs creation debate. This is not some cryptozoologist debate either.

I am open to the possibility of evolution, but I can't really say I care about it that much, unless it's a significant factor in a movie or comic book.

I am asking all of my questions for the sake of learning, and for fun... If you are religious, understand that my questions are for people who believe in Evolution.

Now, here is the scenario plain in simple: Whatever caused the dinosaur's extinction didn't... The day that the dinosaurs had began to die out was like any other ordinary day for the beasts. They never grew sick with some sort of massive plague, no volcanoes erupted to destroy them, no asteroid fell from the sky, no title wave had swept across the land to wipe them away. It was just another normal day in the late cretaceous, and no dinosaur died... Mamals were still the rodents which scurried around the forest floors, and the reptiles still ruled the world.

Here are a few of my starting questions:

1: First off, if Dinosaurs didn't die out, then what do you think they would have evolved into and why?

2: How intelligent do you think they would have become over time and why?

3: What would they look like and why? (I know there is some argument over the reptillionoid theory, which you are allowed to discuss as well.)

4: What would the earth be like and why?
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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1/28/2010 6:06:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2010 6:04:56 PM, bradv42 wrote:
but I can't really say I care about it that much, unless it's a significant factor in a movie or comic book.

Sad face.
bradv42
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1/28/2010 6:08:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2010 6:06:20 PM, Puck wrote:
At 1/28/2010 6:04:56 PM, bradv42 wrote:
but I can't really say I care about it that much, unless it's a significant factor in a movie or comic book.

Sad face.

I know... However today I am poking some curiosity at evolution... So...
bradv42
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1/28/2010 6:09:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2010 6:07:53 PM, Puck wrote:
Also, Reptilian Birdmen now rule the world!

Also, ignore whatever Geo has to say about reptilians. >.>

Reptilian birdmen? Do you think that dinosaurs would have evolved into humanoids?
bradv42
Posts: 30
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1/28/2010 6:29:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well... the Dinosaur humanoid theory is widely disputed. I myself think it a bit unrealistic. That is why I am asking these series of questions. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/28/2010 7:10:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't think there would be a dino-humanoid. Most experts believed that we evolved our intellect do to social needs. The environment that we were growing in (with a ton of predators all around) we had to live in societies to survive. While other animals live in herds and packs and groups of all kinds. Ours became different do to the needs.

We have eyes on the front of our heads instead of the sides. front facing eyes are common in predators for hunting, while eyes on the side are common on prey so that they can see more of the landscape. It is believed that our front eyes evolved that way due to a need for depth perception (moving through the trees). By losing our side facing eyes, society interaction becomes more important in survival. For example. Horses don't live in herds because they need the heard to alert them of danger, they do it for mating needs and simply playing the odds. We needed society for a different method of surviving, which had a need for communication (to say "Danger Will Robinson, DANGER!") and so our brains evolved to fit the need.

Dinosaurs would not likely have this need for communication (while it would be helpful, it wouldn't be needed). Their success was based on the capabilities of their bodies, rather then the abilities of their minds.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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1/28/2010 7:15:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2010 7:12:37 PM, tkubok wrote:
What if zoozoo pazoo went from third to first in the annual Zappy slide contest?

then I would have won a lot of money on that bet.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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1/28/2010 10:16:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2010 6:09:53 PM, bradv42 wrote:

Reptilian birdmen? Do you think that dinosaurs would have evolved into humanoids?

No. :P I was joking.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/28/2010 11:44:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2010 6:04:56 PM, bradv42 wrote:
Alright, before I start this, I just want to say that this has nothing to do with the evolution vs creation debate. This is not some cryptozoologist debate either.

I am open to the possibility of evolution, but I can't really say I care about it that much, unless it's a significant factor in a movie or comic book.

I am asking all of my questions for the sake of learning, and for fun... If you are religious, understand that my questions are for people who believe in Evolution.

Now, here is the scenario plain in simple: Whatever caused the dinosaur's extinction didn't... The day that the dinosaurs had began to die out was like any other ordinary day for the beasts. They never grew sick with some sort of massive plague, no volcanoes erupted to destroy them, no asteroid fell from the sky, no title wave had swept across the land to wipe them away. It was just another normal day in the late cretaceous, and no dinosaur died... Mamals were still the rodents which scurried around the forest floors, and the reptiles still ruled the world.

Here are a few of my starting questions:

1: First off, if Dinosaurs didn't die out, then what do you think they would have evolved into and why?


Please define what specific evolutionary pressures are acting upon every single dinosaur population at the time.

2: How intelligent do you think they would have become over time and why?


Please define what specific evolutionary pressures are acting upon every single dinosaur population at the time.

3: What would they look like and why? (I know there is some argument over the reptillionoid theory, which you are allowed to discuss as well.)

Please define what specific evolutionary pressures are acting upon every single dinosaur population at the time.


4: What would the earth be like and why?

It would most possibly be similar to earth of today, it depends on the permutations resulting from the lack of the mass extinction.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/29/2010 12:27:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/28/2010 6:07:53 PM, Puck wrote:
Also, Reptilian Birdmen now rule the world!

Also, ignore whatever Geo has to say about reptilians. >.>

It's funny you bring that up. It just so happens that Reptilians ate Dinosaurs like humans eat cows. And according to Reptilian expert, Stewart Swerdlow, it wasn't a meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, it was the Atlanteans who killed off the dinosaurs by sinking Lemuria with geomagnetic technology. They did this to kill off the Reptilian's food source.

[At minute 5:15]
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cerebral_Narcissist
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1/29/2010 12:36:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/29/2010 12:27:51 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/28/2010 6:07:53 PM, Puck wrote:
Also, Reptilian Birdmen now rule the world!

Also, ignore whatever Geo has to say about reptilians. >.>

It's funny you bring that up. It just so happens that Reptilians ate Dinosaurs like humans eat cows. And according to Reptilian expert, Stewart Swerdlow, it wasn't a meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, it was the Atlanteans who killed off the dinosaurs by sinking Lemuria with geomagnetic technology. They did this to kill off the Reptilian's food source.

[At minute 5:15]



With all due respect you believe in some pretty wacky nonsense, I don't suppose you have ever sought out a shred of evidence for this rubbish?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GeoLaureate8
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1/29/2010 12:56:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Not everything I have said can be stated with absolute certainty, but there is convincing evidence that leads to the plausibility of such occurrences. There's plenty of evidence found in ancient texts such as the Vedas and Mahabharata which describe advanced, ancient technology including flamethrowers, atom bombs, missiles (described as "a blazing missile of smokeless fire" in the Mahabharata), and UFO's called "vimanas."

Now, the credibility of this doesn't lie in the fact that "ancient texts said so." It's because these ancient texts described things that weren't thought to be known by man back then. If advanced weaponry is a modern discovery, why did the ancients describe accounts of ancient technology being used in wars and the mention of alien visitation (Annunanki, Reptilians, Lyrans, Pleiadians, Andromedans, etc.)?

Given this information that Reptilians existed in the ancient times, the Atlanteans (who had a grudge with the Reptilians) possessed advanced technology, and dinosaurs existed during that time, then it makes sense that Reptilians would eat dinosaurs for food, just like we mammals eat other mammals for food.

http://www.livinginthelightms.com...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
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1/29/2010 1:18:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Ancient texts =/= evidence of, merely writings of. Flying chariots exist in Greek, Roman and Persian myths (probably a lot more).
GeoLaureate8
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1/29/2010 1:29:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/29/2010 1:18:17 AM, Puck wrote:
Ancient texts =/= evidence of, merely writings of.

You just restated what I already said. The thing about the texts that grants them credibility is the description of advanced technology. Language describing missiles and atom bombs proves that these texts are describing something real. Any primitive man can write about tales of gods, wars, and civilizations, but only a man visited by advanced aliens would describe advanced technology has yet to be discovered/invented thousands of years later.

"His Saubha clung to the sky at a league's length...He threw at me rockets, missiles, spears, spikes, battle-axes, three-bladed javelins, flame-throwers, without pausing....The sky...seemed to hold a hundred suns, a hundred moons...and a hundred myriad stars. Neither day nor night could be made out, or the points of compass." - The Mahabharata

Flying chariots exist in Greek, Roman and Persian myths (probably a lot more).

Flying chariots =/= planes and UFO's

"The airplane occupied by Salva was very mysterious. It was so extraordinary that sometimes many airplanes would appear to be in the sky, and sometimes there were apparently none. Sometimes the plane was visible and sometimes
not visible, and the warriors of the Yadu dynasty were puzzled about the whereabouts of the peculiar airplane. Sometimes they would see the airplane on the ground, sometimes flying in the sky, sometimes resting on the peak of a
hill and sometimes floating on the water. The wonderful airplane flew in the sky like a whirling firebrand - it was not steady even for a moment." - Bhaktivedanta, Swami Prabhupada, Krsna (Translator of ancient Hindu texts)
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
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1/29/2010 1:52:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Ooookay then. Missiles, especially ones that explode again not new in mythology. See Norse/Germanic, Japanese, Greek/Roman too (elemental).

The chariots themselves nothing new in terms of ancient myths. Pusan's is pulled by goats, other minor deities by horses. Ravana's is described as being 'like the sun'. In the Mahabharata, it's said that these chariots were made by the Greeks.

As for the missiles they are presented as elemental strikes (nothing new for myths) fire missiles to counter water missiles, guided by mantras.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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1/29/2010 1:56:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/29/2010 1:29:34 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

"His Saubha clung to the sky at a league's length...He threw at me rockets, missiles, spears, spikes, battle-axes, three-bladed javelins, flame-throwers, without pausing....The sky...seemed to hold a hundred suns, a hundred moons...and a hundred myriad stars. Neither day nor night could be made out, or the points of compass." - The Mahabharata


Everyone has heard of the ancient hindu texts were something akin to a nuke is described, sure it's pause for thought but it is hardly very good evidence. Now the above section is not a valid translation is it? I'd be interested to know what the word rocket actually literally translates to, because naturally rocket would be a modern word.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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1/29/2010 1:57:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/29/2010 1:52:07 AM, Puck wrote:

As for the missiles they are presented as elemental strikes (nothing new for myths) fire missiles to counter water missiles, guided by mantras.

Are you sure thats not D&D!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Puck
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1/29/2010 2:01:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/29/2010 1:57:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 1/29/2010 1:52:07 AM, Puck wrote:

As for the missiles they are presented as elemental strikes (nothing new for myths) fire missiles to counter water missiles, guided by mantras.

Are you sure thats not D&D!

Haha, new conspiracy! DnD was created by Atlanteans to train people against the Reptilians.
Puck
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1/29/2010 2:19:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/29/2010 1:56:14 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I'd be interested to know what the word rocket actually literally translates to, because naturally rocket would be a modern word.

It's agni-asthra, Agni being a major god of fire. Asthra has a root in 'star' (ast), basically heavenly fire.
Puck
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1/29/2010 2:22:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
As a total aside and for the probable other 1 or 2 etymology nuts out there, the word disaster ('ast' again!) is derived from calamity from the stars (reference to astrology).
GeoLaureate8
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1/29/2010 2:28:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The whole point is that that these ancient texts aren't describing chariots pulled by flying horses. Some texts do, and they might mean literal flying chariots or they might mean advanced flying aircraft. However, the ancient Vedas and Mahabharata are much more specific than a possibly metaphorical or vague use of the term "flying chariot."

"According to the Dronaparva, part of the Mahabarata, and the Ramayana, one vimana described was shaped like a sphere and born along at great speed on a mighty wind generated by mercury. It moved like a UFO, going up, down, backwards and forwards as the pilot desired. In another Indian source, the Samar, vimanas were 'iron machines, well- knit and smooth, with a charge of mercury that shot out of the back in the form of a roaring flame'. Another work called the Samaranganasutradhara describes how the vehicles were constructed. It is possible that mercury did have something to do with the propulsion, or more possibly, with the guidance system. Curiously, Soviet scientists have discovered what they call 'age-old instruments used in navigating cosmic vehicles' in caves in Turkestan and the Gobi Desert. The 'devices' are hemispherical objects of glass or porcelain, ending in a cone with a drop of mercury inside." - D. Hatcher Childress, "Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology"
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
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1/29/2010 2:45:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
A pro UFO conspiracist with no formal training does little to lend your position, or his translation with any accuracy.
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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1/29/2010 3:16:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Actually dinosaurs didn't completely die out, as fossils found recently in China have proven. Certain species of dinosaurs evolved proto-feathers for warmth and they went on to evolve into birds.

So the next time you are in Maccy D's you can, with some legitimacy, ask for 6 dinosaur McNuggets with fries!
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Korashk
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1/29/2010 5:57:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I didn't read the whole thread, but I'll just put in my two cents.

I believe that at least the people on the world would be like the aliens from the "V" miniseries.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Cerebral_Narcissist
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1/29/2010 8:45:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/29/2010 2:28:28 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The whole point is that that these ancient texts aren't describing chariots pulled by flying horses. Some texts do, and they might mean literal flying chariots or they might mean advanced flying aircraft. However, the ancient Vedas and Mahabharata are much more specific than a possibly metaphorical or vague use of the term "flying chariot."

"According to the Dronaparva, part of the Mahabarata, and the Ramayana, one vimana described was shaped like a sphere and born along at great speed on a mighty wind generated by mercury. It moved like a UFO, going up, down, backwards and forwards as the pilot desired. In another Indian source, the Samar, vimanas were 'iron machines, well- knit and smooth, with a charge of mercury that shot out of the back in the form of a roaring flame'. Another work called the Samaranganasutradhara describes how the vehicles were constructed. It is possible that mercury did have something to do with the propulsion, or more possibly, with the guidance system.

It is just as plausible to claim that this is nothing more than myths, of course there are stories of flying people or flying craft, but why can't they just be that... stories.

Curiously, Soviet scientists have discovered what they call 'age-old instruments used in navigating cosmic vehicles' in caves in Turkestan and the Gobi Desert. The 'devices' are hemispherical objects of glass or porcelain, ending in a cone with a drop of mercury inside." - D. Hatcher Childress, "Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology"

Sure they have, yet these will never be placed on show, no scientist will use them for study, maybe they dont actially exist or have another more sensible explanation.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Kinesis
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1/29/2010 9:03:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/29/2010 12:27:51 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 1/28/2010 6:07:53 PM, Puck wrote:
Also, Reptilian Birdmen now rule the world!

Also, ignore whatever Geo has to say about reptilians. >.>

It's funny you bring that up. It just so happens that Reptilians ate Dinosaurs like humans eat cows. And according to Reptilian expert, Stewart Swerdlow, it wasn't a meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs, it was the Atlanteans who killed off the dinosaurs by sinking Lemuria with geomagnetic technology. They did this to kill off the Reptilian's food source.

[At minute 5:15]



Who else thinks a debate between brian_eggleston and Geo would be awesome?