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Mafia Leaderboard Update

collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/21/2010 3:43:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
http://ddofans.com...

The mafia leaderboard now includes the outcomes from all games ever played on this site except the current game that wjmelements is hosting and Usafkid's Apocalyptic PM mafia.

Anyone that finds error with their win number/wins/losses/etc. Please post it in here along with the reason why it is inaccurate. Also for anyone with info on the apocalyptic PM game please let me know.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/21/2010 3:46:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
A lot of work. I don't know if it's really practically useful, though.

Anyway, sorry if this is obvious, but how is the "Win Number" determined?
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/21/2010 3:48:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 3:46:45 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
how is the "Win Number" determined?

Through a secret formula.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/21/2010 3:53:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 3:48:39 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 3:46:45 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
how is the "Win Number" determined?

Through a secret formula.

Seriously?

Isn't this supposed to be a Wiki?
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/21/2010 3:59:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 3:53:30 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/21/2010 3:48:39 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 3:46:45 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
how is the "Win Number" determined?

Through a secret formula.

Seriously?
Naw I was just kidding, but seriously its a secret.

Isn't this supposed to be a Wiki?
Isn't a wiki supposed to be a place where everybody contributes and helps to build it?
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/21/2010 4:05:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 3:59:10 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 3:53:30 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/21/2010 3:48:39 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 3:46:45 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
how is the "Win Number" determined?

Through a secret formula.

Seriously?
Naw I was just kidding, but seriously its a secret.

Why a secret?

I'm not going to pursue this if you want to keep on keeping it a secret, but I'm still curious. That, and if you want to keep on calling it a "wiki," you should tell everyone else the formula.

Isn't this supposed to be a Wiki?
Isn't a wiki supposed to be a place where everybody contributes and helps to build it?

Well, almost.

A wiki is a place where everyone who wants to contribute can help and build it.
Television Rot: http://tvrot.com...
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/21/2010 4:11:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 4:05:33 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
Why a secret?

Why is Phil's formula a secret?

Why is anything needlessly secret?

Mainly because its fun keeping secrets.

I'm not going to pursue this if you want to keep on keeping it a secret, but I'm still curious. That, and if you want to keep on calling it a "wiki," you should tell everyone else the formula.

If someone who regularly contributes asks for the formula I will tell them.

A wiki is a place where everyone who wants to contribute can help and build it.

Similarly my formula's secret is available for anyone who acts on that desire.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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3/21/2010 4:12:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The mafia leader board has absolutely nothing to do with a player's abilities. For instance, suppose True2GaGa was a townie and the town won. That counts as a win for her despite her input. Similarly, some of us ALWAYS GET KILLED ON THE FIRST NIGHT (or day) PHASE. How is our performance supposed to be calculated? Not to mention that some people are entirely inactive and their team still wins, or just get lucky and their team still wins. In short, this list is entirely pointless and misleading.
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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3/21/2010 4:15:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If you want to know the best mafia players on this site in order, I can give it to you off the top of my head lol I think I played in almost every game aside from 1 regular game and 2 PM games. Anyway I don't mean to discredit CK's work; it's just true that this list is entirely irrelevant and doesn't mean a thing.
President of DDO
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/21/2010 4:34:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 4:12:58 PM, theLwerd wrote:
How is our performance supposed to be calculated? Not to mention that some people are entirely inactive and their team still wins, or just get lucky and their team still wins. In short, this list is entirely pointless and misleading.

I look at the leaderboard and at least in the top 15 I see a strong correlation between performance and win number.

With that said I truely understand where you are coming from.

The leaderboard is far from over-with.

Future Plans:

1. Include a player's life to death ratio in the formula.

Example: You lived for 6 day phases. There were 12 day phases, thus your life to death ratio would be 50%

With that being said you're ignoring a few things:

1. "some people are entirely inactive and their team still wins"

Being inactive is a strategy. If the moderator running the game permits inactivity then the use of it as a strategy may by no means be penalized

2. "or just get lucky and their team still wins"

I agree but unfortunately there is no objective way to measure luck. The same could be said about the world poker tour, golf, etc. To a certain degree all games include luck, and there is by no means any objective way that I at least know of to eliminate this.

3. "How is our performance supposed to be calculated"

Simple, your team wins, you win. Now obviously you have the problem of well we had a crappy player who just rode our coattails the whole game and caused a loss or got an easy victory but hurt our team as a whole.

Unfortunately the means of monitoring this are extremely hard if you plan on being objective. But there is a saying which is pertinent: "You win as a team you lose as a team"

Thus if players want to improve their win ratios they'll instruct their teammates on how to play the game more efficiently.

Now the question will arise: What about the townies, the mafia and the cult can instruct their noobs but the townies get screwed.

IMO the best thing you can do is be active and be a better player during the day phases to help the noobs.

Also moderators should know this and proportion their teams better. Also in my opinion it would be best to have noob games and to have moderate games and experienced games.

This way win ratios and teams aren't impacted by noobs.

In Conclusion: I think my win number accurately measures a players performance in the most objective means necessary. The life to death ratio will become a factor when I finish it thus it will be more accurate. However to make the ratio more fair for players in the future it is my suggestions that 3 difficulty levels of games be held and that players only be allowed in such games based upon the number of games played.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/21/2010 4:42:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Also @ TheLwerd

The same could be said of the current win ratio of DDO as you could argue that one could be better than another simply by doing a large volume of debates with noobs who forfeit.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
badger
Posts: 11,793
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3/21/2010 6:05:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 3:48:39 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 3:46:45 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
how is the "Win Number" determined?

Through a secret formula.

I know your formula.
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collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/21/2010 6:13:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 6:05:47 PM, badger wrote:
I know your formula.

If you guess it, I will confirm it, you only get one guess.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
badger
Posts: 11,793
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3/21/2010 6:22:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 6:13:43 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 6:05:47 PM, badger wrote:
I know your formula.

If you guess it, I will confirm it, you only get one guess.

There's no guessing. The numbers told me. You've split it into a few parts, but only 2 of them can be seen so far.

For those under 10 you subtract 7.5 multiplyed by the number they are below 10 from their percentage of wins.

And for those over 10 you divide their number of games by 3 and add it to their percentage of wins.

Was I right? lol
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collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/21/2010 6:27:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 6:22:10 PM, badger wrote:
Was I right? lol

You are on the right track but both answers are incorrect.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
badger
Posts: 11,793
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3/21/2010 6:32:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 6:27:36 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 6:22:10 PM, badger wrote:
Was I right? lol

You are on the right track but both answers are incorrect.

Then mine's an alternate formula for your winning number.
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badger
Posts: 11,793
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3/21/2010 6:42:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 6:27:36 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 6:22:10 PM, badger wrote:
Was I right? lol

You are on the right track but both answers are incorrect.

What's your formula? You might as well tell us now.
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feverish
Posts: 2,716
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3/22/2010 4:41:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Add succesful kills?

I've only played the game once (R_R's roleplay version) and my team didn't win but I took down 4 opposing players as a vanilla mafia. Should that not count for something?
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/22/2010 5:14:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/22/2010 4:41:42 AM, feverish wrote:
Add succesful kills?

I've only played the game once (R_R's roleplay version) and my team didn't win but I took down 4 opposing players as a vanilla mafia. Should that not count for something?

Lol well feverish that's one version of the game that is used rarely and perhaps might not be used again. Normally in games there is only one vigilante while in that game anyone could be a vigilante. So while you say you were vanilla, you were actually a vigilante if you owned a gun or were smart enough to make a weapon. So while in that game it could be fairly done it couldn't be fairly done in 99% of mafia games because you would award the vigilante with bonus points for being lucky enough to be a vigilante.

That being said you could incorporate a role success point factor. Such as if they were doctor and protected a townie vs a mafia. However you get into very complicated situations like if they protected the right townie vs the wrong townie. Such as if a doctor protected a town that doesn't benefit the town (vanilla) vs protecting the cop. Which would not only involve a ton of information collecting from private PM's but would also boil down to being unobjective. Also how would mafia be ranked if their godfather makes the choice? etc.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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3/22/2010 11:34:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 4:42:39 PM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
Also @ TheLwerd

The same could be said of the current win ratio of DDO as you could argue that one could be better than another simply by doing a large volume of debates with noobs who forfeit.

I agree with this entirely. Just because someone has the most wins doesn't mean jack. How good their opponents are, the topics that they debate, etc. all play a factor. I think it's pretty obvious that there are some excellent debaters here whose rank might not be accurately reflected... not to mention that the # of debates someone does increases their chances of appearing higher, whereas your list can have someone play just 4 games, win 3, and have a 75% win ratio thus making them appear better than they actually are.

Anyway, I still 100% believe that the list is bogus. Being inactive is a strategy, but most people who are inactive aren't doing so to be strategic. Not to mention that the analogy to debating fails because with debating, the person is actually responsible for their win/loss which can NOT be said about the mafia games. According to your formula, whatever it may be, I can barely say 2 words in every game but if my team wins then I win. That can't be done with a debate.

The bottom line is that who is a good mafia player can be determined by: their ability to stay alive (this has a lot to do with luck, but as you mentioned so do a lot of things); how many people you accurately kill as vigilante or lynch as town; how someone sees through another's BS; how one interprets the story; the strategy one comes up with; etc... none of which can be calculated by the list, or can be accurately determined by win percentage or any other numbers. For sh-ts and giggles I looked at your top 10 list, and think that 6/10 don't deserve to be there. I also disagree with the order entirely. However, hopefully the fact that I'm low on the list will mean that people spare me for a change in upcoming games...?! Yay! I suck at this game so keep me alive :D
President of DDO
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/22/2010 11:55:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/22/2010 11:34:19 AM, theLwerd wrote:
whereas your list can have someone play just 4 games, win 3, and have a 75% win ratio thus making them appear better than they actually are.

Actually you must at least play 10 games for your win ratio to = your win number check the chart.


Being inactive is a strategy, but most people who are inactive aren't doing so to be strategic.
Then they should be replaced by the mod and the fault lies with them not with the mod, that said I'm considering incorporating posts per games as a partial detractor from the win ratio. For example if you don't at least X amount of posts per day phase it negatively effects your ratio.

Not to mention that the analogy to debating fails because with debating, the person is actually responsible for their win/loss which can NOT be said about the mafia games.

Actually with debating you're not entirely responsible for your win/loss either. Your opponent greatly affects how you do. If your opponent forfeits then they have just as much affect on your win as you do.

According to your formula, whatever it may be, I can barely say 2 words in every game but if my team wins then I win. That can't be done with a debate.

Again I'll be incorporating post count as a detractor


none of which can be calculated by the list, or can be accurately determined by win percentage or any other numbers.

No I agree, the list can never be a perfect leaderboard, its just a nice indicator at noting the extremes.

For example if someone plays 100 games but loses 90 of them, odds are that they're not a bad player.

If someone plays 100 games and wins 90 of them odds are that they are a pretty good player.

The list is good at determining generalities and will become more accurate as the number of games increase.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/22/2010 11:56:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/22/2010 11:55:24 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
For example if you don't at least X amount of posts per day phase it negatively effects your ratio.

I'm considering making this applicable for townies only
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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3/23/2014 9:31:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Askbob gets owned by my mathematical albeit illiterate genius. I would also like to point out that PoeJoe was an Asian.
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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3/23/2014 12:35:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
-__________-

Oh wow
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite