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Oligarchy PM Mafia

wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/14/2010 4:31:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
AP Exams are over!

As thought of earlier, I will be testing the Oligarchy idea I thought of during American Politics Mafia. This, however, will have certain restrictions to make this work for the town.

First, in an Oligarchy System for Mafia, there are Oligarchs that divide the states for voting. The State-Electoral-College System is outlined in the American Politics Mafia threads, but as a reminder:
-All states have an equal vote but are composed of different people.
-At the end of the Day Phase, each state will vote for the person who the largest number of its members voted for.
-The player who receives the most state votes is lynched.
Under Oligarchy:
-Rather than one player determining all of the states, an oligarchy will agree on the state boundaries.
In this game:
-There will be a steady 3 states.
-The Oligarchs will not be able to communicate via PM.
-The Oligarchs will not know who the other Oligarchs are.
-The states can be changed at any time, including the Day Phase.
-The Oligarchs will submit "propositions" to the other Oligarchs through their role PMs. A proposition that is approved by another Oligarch will be put into place immediately. Note that this makes propositions anonymous.

I will answer any questions regarding this system in private role PMs only, unless it seems there is a general confusion.

THE ROLES, THEIR ROLE PM, AND ROLE DESCRIPTIONS
Descriptions will not be included in the role PM.

3 Oligarchs
You are an Oligarch.
Description: You may submit anonymous state organization propositions through private PM with the moderator. If you recieve such a proposition, you may choose to approve it. It will immediately take action. Once you receive a second proposition, the first will expire. You win with the town.

3 Vanilla Townies
You are a Townie.
Description: You have no special abilities. You win with the town.

1 Agent
You are the Agent.
Description: You may at any time send anonymous messages to any player via your role PM. You win with the town.

1 Spy
You are the Spy.
Description: You may at any time send anonymous messages to any player via your role PM. You win with the mafia.

2 Vanilla Mafia
You are a Mafia.
Description: You have no special abilities. You win with the mafia.

Sign Ups:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Hurstman
Posts: 739
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5/14/2010 4:33:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 4:31:44 PM, wjmelements wrote:
AP Exams are over!

As thought of earlier, I will be testing the Oligarchy idea I thought of during American Politics Mafia. This, however, will have certain restrictions to make this work for the town.

First, in an Oligarchy System for Mafia, there are Oligarchs that divide the states for voting. The State-Electoral-College System is outlined in the American Politics Mafia threads, but as a reminder:
-All states have an equal vote but are composed of different people.
-At the end of the Day Phase, each state will vote for the person who the largest number of its members voted for.
-The player who receives the most state votes is lynched.
Under Oligarchy:
-Rather than one player determining all of the states, an oligarchy will agree on the state boundaries.
In this game:
-There will be a steady 3 states.
-The Oligarchs will not be able to communicate via PM.
-The Oligarchs will not know who the other Oligarchs are.
-The states can be changed at any time, including the Day Phase.
-The Oligarchs will submit "propositions" to the other Oligarchs through their role PMs. A proposition that is approved by another Oligarch will be put into place immediately. Note that this makes propositions anonymous.

I will answer any questions regarding this system in private role PMs only, unless it seems there is a general confusion.

THE ROLES, THEIR ROLE PM, AND ROLE DESCRIPTIONS
Descriptions will not be included in the role PM.

3 Oligarchs
You are an Oligarch.
Description: You may submit anonymous state organization propositions through private PM with the moderator. If you recieve such a proposition, you may choose to approve it. It will immediately take action. Once you receive a second proposition, the first will expire. You win with the town.

3 Vanilla Townies
You are a Townie.
Description: You have no special abilities. You win with the town.

1 Agent
You are the Agent.
Description: You may at any time send anonymous messages to any player via your role PM. You win with the town.

1 Spy
You are the Spy.
Description: You may at any time send anonymous messages to any player via your role PM. You win with the mafia.

2 Vanilla Mafia
You are a Mafia.
Description: You have no special abilities. You win with the mafia.

Sign Ups:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6. Hurstman
7.
8.
9.
10.
Cody_Franklin- "You aren't the sharpest bulb in the box, are you?"

Strikeeagle84015- "Why would you want a sharp bulb?"

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people" --Eleanor Roosevelt
Hurstman
Posts: 739
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5/14/2010 4:34:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 4:33:09 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Eff this. Yep, I'll say it every time lol I don't care. Cheater.

Wait, how is he cheating L?
Cody_Franklin- "You aren't the sharpest bulb in the box, are you?"

Strikeeagle84015- "Why would you want a sharp bulb?"

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people" --Eleanor Roosevelt
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/14/2010 4:35:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 4:34:30 PM, Hurstman wrote:
At 5/14/2010 4:33:09 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Eff this. Yep, I'll say it every time lol I don't care. Cheater.

Wait, how is he cheating L?

She thinks there should be a line for making PM games.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Hurstman
Posts: 739
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5/14/2010 4:35:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 4:35:03 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/14/2010 4:34:30 PM, Hurstman wrote:
At 5/14/2010 4:33:09 PM, theLwerd wrote:
Eff this. Yep, I'll say it every time lol I don't care. Cheater.

Wait, how is he cheating L?

She thinks there should be a line for making PM games.

I don't think there should be a line for PM mafia games, but there should be for forum mafia games
Cody_Franklin- "You aren't the sharpest bulb in the box, are you?"

Strikeeagle84015- "Why would you want a sharp bulb?"

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people" --Eleanor Roosevelt
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/14/2010 4:36:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 4:35:50 PM, Hurstman wrote:
I don't think there should be a line for PM mafia games, but there should be for forum mafia games

That's the majority opinion.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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5/14/2010 4:36:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Get in line to host a game instead of hosting pm games.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/14/2010 4:38:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 4:35:03 PM, wjmelements wrote:
She thinks there should be a line for making PM games.

Wrong. I think that there's no difference between a PM game and a forum game except for the fact that PM games are disorganized and annoying / hard to read... i.e. you're skipping ahead of everyone who is waiting patiently in line, and modding dozens of games when other people have waited for months and months to mod. Disregarding the line undermines it entirely and gives no incentive for people to follow it.
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/14/2010 4:39:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 4:36:51 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/14/2010 4:35:50 PM, Hurstman wrote:
I don't think there should be a line for PM mafia games, but there should be for forum mafia games

That's the majority opinion.

Right, and I know how much you believe that the majority is always right.
President of DDO
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/14/2010 4:40:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 4:38:37 PM, theLwerd wrote:

They wait in line by choice. Anyone can host a PM game, and with summer, I expect that there may be 2 or 3 PM games at once.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/14/2010 4:48:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 4:40:57 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/14/2010 4:38:37 PM, theLwerd wrote:

They wait in line by choice. Anyone can host a PM game, and with summer, I expect that there may be 2 or 3 PM games at once.

Yeah, because they make the choice to be fair instead of to cheat and cut the line like you do. By your logic, everyone who wants to mod should just start a PM game instead. That would once again eliminate the whole point of a line in the first place. Not to mention that it would be chaotic; the whole point of having a line was because many people wanted to mod and we didn't think a bunch of games should be going on at once. You seem to be advocating the exact opposite, i.e. adhering to the line when it's convenient for you (your turn) but disregarding it for everyone else. How selfish can you be.
President of DDO
Hurstman
Posts: 739
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5/14/2010 4:49:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think there should be some kind of order in place here. If a bunch of mafia games are going on at once, it gets confusing. I'd rather wait and play in a mafia game with a lot of good people than random small ones. That's just me. Also, a PM game does sound disorganized. I signed up for this game to get better, but I'd rather back up order than have some fun. Take me off the list please. I'll wait to play "legal" games. I'd rather not risk people not letting me play or not playing when I mod because I went to "illegal" mafia games.
Cody_Franklin- "You aren't the sharpest bulb in the box, are you?"

Strikeeagle84015- "Why would you want a sharp bulb?"

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people" --Eleanor Roosevelt
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/14/2010 4:53:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The rule should be that once you host a forum game, you can sign yourself up again on the official list. PM games should be hosted by those on the list (in order) who don't want to wait to host a forum game. Also, I think forum games should be much smaller to make them go by faster, or so 2 games can be hosted at once.
President of DDO
Danielle
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5/14/2010 4:55:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Basically the system now is that everyone who signs up has to wait on average 8 months to host a game, but don't worry, because you can just play in one of wjm's 100 PM games in the interim and then sign up for his forum game too. Haha. If people had any common sense whatsoever they would boycott PM games... especially if they're on the list to mod... because by signing up, essentially they're forfeiting their own chance to mod or rather empowering the same mod to keep hosting instead of being fair and giving other people a chance, which was the whole reason for the list in the first place. But people don't have common sense, so yeah.
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Danielle
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5/14/2010 4:58:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
And btw I will say this every single time a PM sign-up is hosted no matter how futile my attempts turn out to be. I'm hoping that one day people will realize the fact that they're only negating the entire purpose of the line, but I know that rationality might be expecting too much from most people lol.
President of DDO
wjmelements
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5/14/2010 4:58:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 4:48:59 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 5/14/2010 4:40:57 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/14/2010 4:38:37 PM, theLwerd wrote:

They wait in line by choice. Anyone can host a PM game, and with summer, I expect that there may be 2 or 3 PM games at once.

Yeah, because they make the choice to be fair instead of to cheat and cut the line like you do. By your logic, everyone who wants to mod should just start a PM game instead.

I don't see why not. Many people would try, few would win. The best mods and the best set-ups would be successful. Free competition in PM Mafia is preferable as opposed to Forum Mafia because they will not clutter the forums.
No one is required to sign up for a game they don't want to or have time to play.

That would once again eliminate the whole point of a line in the first place. Not to mention that it would be chaotic; the whole point of having a line was because many people wanted to mod and we didn't think a bunch of games should be going on at once.

The line actually originated because someone said "I've got next" and then "I'm after you" ad infinitum.

You seem to be advocating the exact opposite, i.e. adhering to the line when it's convenient for you (your turn) but disregarding it for everyone else.

Last I checked, the line was for forum games.

How selfish can you be.
Always end with ad hominem.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/14/2010 5:02:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 4:49:47 PM, Hurstman wrote:
Also, a PM game does sound disorganized. I signed up for this game to get better, but I'd rather back up order than have some fun.

PM Games have been around for over a year. Only 2 have been unsuccessful, and neither were hosted by me.

Take me off the list please. I'll wait to play "legal" games.

Be sure to take yourself out of OreEle's game too.

I'd rather not risk people not letting me play or not playing when I mod because I went to "illegal" mafia games.

lol@this.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/14/2010 5:05:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 4:53:12 PM, theLwerd wrote:
The rule should be that once you host a forum game, you can sign yourself up again on the official list.
That's how the Forum System currently works.
PM games should be hosted by those on the list (in order) who don't want to wait to host a forum game.
Clarify your proposition.
Also, I think forum games should be much smaller to make them go by faster, or so 2 games can be hosted at once.

Psychologically, this is impractical. It's kind of like when you wait in line for food at a buffet. You wish people wouldn't take so long or as much until you get up there yourself. Nope, people will milk the reserved time they get for what they can.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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5/14/2010 5:05:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 5:04:14 PM, BigMac wrote:
#7.

FIRST TIME AS MAFlA GET.

I'll taje spot 9
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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5/14/2010 5:06:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
lol oh god.... Free Market Mafia..... Rather funny if you ask me.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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5/14/2010 5:07:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 5:06:08 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
lol oh god.... Free Market Mafia..... Rather funny if you ask me.

Correction: Maddow Mafia :D
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Vi_Veri
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5/14/2010 5:08:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 5:05:13 PM, wjmelements wrote:

Also, I think forum games should be much smaller to make them go by faster, or so 2 games can be hosted at once.

Psychologically, this is impractical. It's kind of like when you wait in line for food at a buffet. You wish people wouldn't take so long or as much until you get up there yourself. Nope, people will milk the reserved time they get for what they can.

Wait, what? I don't quite understand what you are talking about here. If the games are smaller, people can't really milk the reserved time. With time limits for day phases and night phases, and a smaller amount of players (and players who want their turn to be next trying to speed up the game), the games shouldn't last too long.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
wjmelements
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5/14/2010 5:10:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 5:08:24 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 5/14/2010 5:05:13 PM, wjmelements wrote:

Also, I think forum games should be much smaller to make them go by faster, or so 2 games can be hosted at once.

Psychologically, this is impractical. It's kind of like when you wait in line for food at a buffet. You wish people wouldn't take so long or as much until you get up there yourself. Nope, people will milk the reserved time they get for what they can.


Wait, what? I don't quite understand what you are talking about here. If the games are smaller, people can't really milk the reserved time. With time limits for day phases and night phases, and a smaller amount of players (and players who want their turn to be next trying to speed up the game), the games shouldn't last too long.

You aren't going to be able to get smaller forum games to happen without restrictions.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/14/2010 5:12:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 5/14/2010 5:06:08 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
lol oh god.... Free Market Mafia..... Rather funny if you ask me.

I hate having to make that allusion because I'm done with economics until my senior year, but the economic analogy to the forum system is licensure.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light