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War Debates

lannan13
Posts: 23,099
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2/23/2015 2:38:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I see a lot of War debates and I always asked the same series of questions to the person wanting to defend the US. Is electronic Warfare allowed? I know that with me doing Cyberpatriots I have a knowledge on this field, but why does no one allow it? Everytime it's "Oh because I don't know anything about it." Unfortunately I do. I also know that the powergrid is so weak that a single solar flair would destroy the entire electronic infrastructure in the US and within 9 months 90% of the US population would die from starvation, desease, or crime. Telecommunications with vehicles and such would be rendered useless. Now I know that this is why they wouldn't want to do that, but with two non nuclear missles all that I need the war is over in the first round. Who doesn't want this advantage in the debates?
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Jingle_Bombs
Posts: 27
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2/23/2015 2:56:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
90% kill rate of the U.S. population is a little high for a blackout. Though the economic fallout would -in my view- be most catastrophic. Also, the Internet was orginally designed by the military for the scenario you just described. I see no reason to believe then why C2 would be crippled in the event of a power grid collapse when the DoD will have plenty of access to backup generators and drones that could potentially distribute wifi over a wide area. But I agree, electronic warfare is an intergal part of modern warfare. Most war debaters here lack a military education -that you have- and are just enthusiasts.
lannan13
Posts: 23,099
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2/23/2015 6:24:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 2:56:46 PM, Jingle_Bombs wrote:
90% kill rate of the U.S. population is a little high for a blackout. Though the economic fallout would -in my view- be most catastrophic. Also, the Internet was orginally designed by the military for the scenario you just described. I see no reason to believe then why C2 would be crippled in the event of a power grid collapse when the DoD will have plenty of access to backup generators and drones that could potentially distribute wifi over a wide area. But I agree, electronic warfare is an intergal part of modern warfare. Most war debaters here lack a military education -that you have- and are just enthusiasts.

No, all you need is one solar flare or weapon with the equivilant of that (which I know of, but I'll keep that a secret for those debates) would take out the entire US powergrid and fry it beyond belief. By this I mean that everything is broken and the electrical infrastructure from powergrids to cars would have their circuts melted and everything would need immediate replacement. But the 90% is an actual number that the DOD gave for this circumstance and they used Iran for an instance and claimed that they just needed two certain missiles and the ability to get to each coast and everything would be over for the US and a large portion of Canada and Mexico.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Jingle_Bombs
Posts: 27
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2/23/2015 7:17:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
An EMP would not kill 90% of Americans. That's ridiculous. A quick Google shows that 90% is a number given out by infowars and right wing conspiracy blogs. Meanwhile the 2001-2006 US government sponsored EMP Commission reported that "The immediate effects of EMP are disruption of, and damage to electronic systems" and that "EMP is not reported in the scientific literature to have direct effects on people in the parameter range of present interest." Meaning that 270 million people aren't going to die.
Jingle_Bombs
Posts: 27
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2/23/2015 7:18:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 7:17:27 PM, Jingle_Bombs wrote:
An EMP would not kill 90% of Americans. That's ridiculous. A quick Google shows that 90% is a number given out by infowars and right wing conspiracy blogs. Meanwhile the 2001-2006 US government sponsored EMP Commission reported that "The immediate effects of EMP are disruption of, and damage to electronic systems" and that "EMP is not reported in the scientific literature to have direct effects on people in the parameter range of present interest." Meaning that 270 million people aren't going to die.

http://www.empcommission.org...
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,571
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2/24/2015 8:35:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 2:38:33 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I see a lot of War debates and I always asked the same series of questions to the person wanting to defend the US. Is electronic Warfare allowed? I know that with me doing Cyberpatriots I have a knowledge on this field, but why does no one allow it? Everytime it's "Oh because I don't know anything about it." Unfortunately I do. I also know that the powergrid is so weak that a single solar flair would destroy the entire electronic infrastructure in the US and within 9 months 90% of the US population would die from starvation, desease, or crime. Telecommunications with vehicles and such would be rendered useless. Now I know that this is why they wouldn't want to do that, but with two non nuclear missles all that I need the war is over in the first round. Who doesn't want this advantage in the debates?

I, too, know about cyber-warfare and the terrible effects it can have on the receiving nation.

I also know about the drastic effects a solar flare can have on the power grid. I assume you know this, but I have to ask; did you know that you can actually hack the power grid and shut it down, and the results would be the same as a solar flare?

You can also hack nuclear reactors and cause a critical-mass meltdown, which results in a nuclear explosion.

And thanks for finally telling your power move that you have posted about before (even though I knew that your move was possible). Now I know better than to let do a war debate with me. XD
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

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I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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2/25/2015 10:34:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 2:38:33 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I see a lot of War debates and I always asked the same series of questions to the person wanting to defend the US. Is electronic Warfare allowed? I know that with me doing Cyberpatriots I have a knowledge on this field, but why does no one allow it? Everytime it's "Oh because I don't know anything about it." Unfortunately I do. I also know that the powergrid is so weak that a single solar flair would destroy the entire electronic infrastructure in the US and within 9 months 90% of the US population would die from starvation, desease, or crime. Telecommunications with vehicles and such would be rendered useless. Now I know that this is why they wouldn't want to do that, but with two non nuclear missles all that I need the war is over in the first round. Who doesn't want this advantage in the debates?

The problem with such debates is that the tactics are typically immersed in classified material.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
lannan13
Posts: 23,099
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2/25/2015 10:38:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:34:06 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/23/2015 2:38:33 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I see a lot of War debates and I always asked the same series of questions to the person wanting to defend the US. Is electronic Warfare allowed? I know that with me doing Cyberpatriots I have a knowledge on this field, but why does no one allow it? Everytime it's "Oh because I don't know anything about it." Unfortunately I do. I also know that the powergrid is so weak that a single solar flair would destroy the entire electronic infrastructure in the US and within 9 months 90% of the US population would die from starvation, desease, or crime. Telecommunications with vehicles and such would be rendered useless. Now I know that this is why they wouldn't want to do that, but with two non nuclear missles all that I need the war is over in the first round. Who doesn't want this advantage in the debates?

The problem with such debates is that the tactics are typically immersed in classified material.

Indeed my good sir. Though, there are plently of things you can find in retired CIA agent journels and such.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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2/25/2015 10:40:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:38:31 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:34:06 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/23/2015 2:38:33 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I see a lot of War debates and I always asked the same series of questions to the person wanting to defend the US. Is electronic Warfare allowed? I know that with me doing Cyberpatriots I have a knowledge on this field, but why does no one allow it? Everytime it's "Oh because I don't know anything about it." Unfortunately I do. I also know that the powergrid is so weak that a single solar flair would destroy the entire electronic infrastructure in the US and within 9 months 90% of the US population would die from starvation, desease, or crime. Telecommunications with vehicles and such would be rendered useless. Now I know that this is why they wouldn't want to do that, but with two non nuclear missles all that I need the war is over in the first round. Who doesn't want this advantage in the debates?

The problem with such debates is that the tactics are typically immersed in classified material.

Indeed my good sir. Though, there are plently of things you can find in retired CIA agent journels and such.

I may be biased on this, but I would imagine that most unclassified material is exceptionally out of date and wouldn't describe a realistic scenario. The topic you're talking about is exceptionally relevant to how we wage war today, and without access to the classified stuff, you wouldn't really have a good conception of what is going on now. This particular battlefield is evolving at an incredible rate.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
lannan13
Posts: 23,099
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2/25/2015 10:43:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:40:57 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:38:31 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:34:06 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/23/2015 2:38:33 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I see a lot of War debates and I always asked the same series of questions to the person wanting to defend the US. Is electronic Warfare allowed? I know that with me doing Cyberpatriots I have a knowledge on this field, but why does no one allow it? Everytime it's "Oh because I don't know anything about it." Unfortunately I do. I also know that the powergrid is so weak that a single solar flair would destroy the entire electronic infrastructure in the US and within 9 months 90% of the US population would die from starvation, desease, or crime. Telecommunications with vehicles and such would be rendered useless. Now I know that this is why they wouldn't want to do that, but with two non nuclear missles all that I need the war is over in the first round. Who doesn't want this advantage in the debates?

The problem with such debates is that the tactics are typically immersed in classified material.

Indeed my good sir. Though, there are plently of things you can find in retired CIA agent journels and such.

I may be biased on this, but I would imagine that most unclassified material is exceptionally out of date and wouldn't describe a realistic scenario. The topic you're talking about is exceptionally relevant to how we wage war today, and without access to the classified stuff, you wouldn't really have a good conception of what is going on now. This particular battlefield is evolving at an incredible rate.

No, these journals aren't classified at all and they are good reads. Most of it is pretty recent mind you that they're remove 10 15 years, but still.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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2/25/2015 10:44:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I mean, let me put it this way. You're talking about the NSA. Just look at Ft. Meade, the physical location of NSA HQ, and tell me how much you think that agency wants anyone to know anything about it.
http://vladtepesblog.com...

My experience with this topic leads me to conclude that if the NSA is involved at all, that involvement is classified top secret or above.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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2/25/2015 10:45:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:43:05 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:40:57 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:38:31 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:34:06 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/23/2015 2:38:33 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I see a lot of War debates and I always asked the same series of questions to the person wanting to defend the US. Is electronic Warfare allowed? I know that with me doing Cyberpatriots I have a knowledge on this field, but why does no one allow it? Everytime it's "Oh because I don't know anything about it." Unfortunately I do. I also know that the powergrid is so weak that a single solar flair would destroy the entire electronic infrastructure in the US and within 9 months 90% of the US population would die from starvation, desease, or crime. Telecommunications with vehicles and such would be rendered useless. Now I know that this is why they wouldn't want to do that, but with two non nuclear missles all that I need the war is over in the first round. Who doesn't want this advantage in the debates?

The problem with such debates is that the tactics are typically immersed in classified material.

Indeed my good sir. Though, there are plently of things you can find in retired CIA agent journels and such.

I may be biased on this, but I would imagine that most unclassified material is exceptionally out of date and wouldn't describe a realistic scenario. The topic you're talking about is exceptionally relevant to how we wage war today, and without access to the classified stuff, you wouldn't really have a good conception of what is going on now. This particular battlefield is evolving at an incredible rate.

No, these journals aren't classified at all and they are good reads. Most of it is pretty recent mind you that they're remove 10 15 years, but still.

Anything more than 1 or 2 years out of date is anachronistic.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
lannan13
Posts: 23,099
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2/26/2015 5:03:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:45:23 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:43:05 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:40:57 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:38:31 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:34:06 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/23/2015 2:38:33 PM, lannan13 wrote:
I see a lot of War debates and I always asked the same series of questions to the person wanting to defend the US. Is electronic Warfare allowed? I know that with me doing Cyberpatriots I have a knowledge on this field, but why does no one allow it? Everytime it's "Oh because I don't know anything about it." Unfortunately I do. I also know that the powergrid is so weak that a single solar flair would destroy the entire electronic infrastructure in the US and within 9 months 90% of the US population would die from starvation, desease, or crime. Telecommunications with vehicles and such would be rendered useless. Now I know that this is why they wouldn't want to do that, but with two non nuclear missles all that I need the war is over in the first round. Who doesn't want this advantage in the debates?

The problem with such debates is that the tactics are typically immersed in classified material.

Indeed my good sir. Though, there are plently of things you can find in retired CIA agent journels and such.

I may be biased on this, but I would imagine that most unclassified material is exceptionally out of date and wouldn't describe a realistic scenario. The topic you're talking about is exceptionally relevant to how we wage war today, and without access to the classified stuff, you wouldn't really have a good conception of what is going on now. This particular battlefield is evolving at an incredible rate.

No, these journals aren't classified at all and they are good reads. Most of it is pretty recent mind you that they're remove 10 15 years, but still.

Anything more than 1 or 2 years out of date is anachronistic.
Well yes, but when CIA agents come out and say here are problems that the US hasn't fixed and are bad juju then it's an interesting read and still relivant.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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