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Do Women Truly Stand Equal?

MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,104
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7/18/2015 11:38:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is meant to be a deep thought inducing and even self-reflective topic; it is in no way shape or form meant to be demeaning or an attack so please approach the topic with an open mind and respond with thoughtful and respectful dialog.

OK first thing is first and I will use caps lock to make this as clear as possible (sorry, not yelling just emphasizing).

WE ARE TALKING MODERNIZED, "EQUALITY" BASED CULTURES HERE, PLACES SUCH AS THOSE EMPLOYING SHARIA LAW OR OTHER BLATANT OPPRESSION SHOULD NOT BE REFERENCED OR DISCUSSED.

Living in America I am privileged enough to be submerged in a culture that holds equality and freedom well above all else; without these two Rights America would no longer exist except in name. Throughout the history of this great nation, and the development of what we today refer to as "The Western World" or "The Modern World" as a whole (includes all "Western" style nations), we have fought tirelessly to both identify and correct injustices and inequalities throughout the world; and we have made some amazing progress.

We all hear the endless and (in my humble opinion) mind numbing screams and cries these days about how sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. Americans are. These cries are so vigorously backed and magnified by media, lobbyists, individuals looking for excuses, and even people just trying to gain wealth that people not truly knowledgeable with America or its culture have this incorrect vision of America being the most bigoted nation that ever existed; run by a tightly knit circle of AARP card wielding (old), emotionless, bigoted white men sitting around an over-sized marble fireplace in high-back gold lined chairs, smoking $10,000 cigars and pipes, reading the stock ticker, drinking scotch delivered by a butler resembling father time himself, while reading the New York Times and discussing who they should put in the White House next. Truth is, in relation to the rest of the world, America has only existed for a fraction of the blink of an eye (239 years); in this short time, America has led the way in ending slavery, facilitated an environment of equality, implemented Civil Rights to protect minorities, led the women rights movement, showed the world that an omni-cultural and omni-religious nation-state could be highly successful and even lead the world; and that is just the domestic influences. Removing your biases and reviewing objectively, one could argue that America has positively changed the world in this arena.

One of the major changes implemented was Women's Rights and sexual equality to men. These days we see many feminist groups, rallies, entries in parades, TV shows, etc. boasting equality, how women don't "need" men, and even how some women have taken male influence completely out of their lives; then there are those that take it to the extreme. Question posed here is: "Have women truly become equal and begun making their own decisions?"

So let's look at common items (nouns) today that women feel are their own choice, their creation, empowering, etc. The source of the below list is actually first hand; so just in case anyone questions the source, mindset of the poster, understanding of the subject, etc. I want to make it clear this list is straight from the horses mouth. I was at a training session for my profession and recorded it for study. Unfortunately, I was toward the back of the room...and there was a feminism seminar in the large conference center across the hall. It was so loud that my recorder ended up picking up their conference just as clearly as my session. So, I was privileged to both educational seminars for one price; BOGO DEAL!!! LOL. In the session, these are 12 items the speaker noted as proof of "Female empowerment, control of men (Ex: "We designed bikinis to feel good about ourselves, not so men could gawk at us."):

1) Bikinis
2) Thongs
3) Skirts
4) Lingerie
5) Seductive dancing (including the crap at clubs I can only describe as dry humping)
6) Pole dancing (the exercise in mind)
7) Sex toys including the strap-on
8) Revealing clothing
9) Makeup
10) Small waist, large breasts, hips & a$$ body figure
11) Female celebrity's public display of sexuality
12) Increasing female presence in publications and television since the '60s (entertainment sector)

Beyonce crawling around and shaking her goods on stage and in music videos while wearing revealing clothing has nothing to do with female empowerment, that's to keep men interested. Bikinis, made by man for male attention; seductive dance, well you don't do it because you had a bad day; female presence in publications increasing, is this because women like standing around in American Flag printed bikinis eating greasy burgers so Carl's Jr is advertising to the female population? Nope, it's because they are getting the undivided attention of men watching and the men using DVR fast-forwarding through the commercials will stop and play their commercials.

So I ask you, are women truly doing things for themselves or are men still "in control" of their lives, dictating every aspect of their existence?
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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7/18/2015 11:44:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
In academic settings women have on average achieved higher grades than their male counterparts. This applies to college, high school, junior high, etc. If anything, a greater amount of money needs to be spent on male education to eliminate this inequality.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,104
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7/19/2015 2:48:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 11:44:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
In academic settings women have on average achieved higher grades than their male counterparts. This applies to college, high school, junior high, etc. If anything, a greater amount of money needs to be spent on male education to eliminate this inequality.

@Vox_Veritas

Let's put this "grades" deal into proper context and provide the full categories, not just generalizations. Here are details from those studies:

1) There were 508 studies consisting of about 590,000 females and 575,00 males ranging from Kindergarten through graduate school from about 30 different nations in a time span of 1914-2011.

2) When presented with exams or standardized tests, males outperform females in all subjects

3) When looking at final grades, females outperform males in all subjects

4) Detailed reviews show that when teachers have the grading responsibility in their hands such as writing essays or giving oral presentations, teachers unanimously show favoritism toward females

5) Detailed reviews show that males, being less social naturally than females, are hurt by modern educational systems which emphasize social behavior and groups while grading individuals on how they function within the group. Since males tend to naturally be more introvert and females more extrovert, this inherently gives advantage to the female population for overall grading.

6) Researchers agree the reason men perform so much better on exams yet females end up with higher overall grades is: "School marks reflect learning in the larger social context of the classroom and require effort and persistence over long periods of time, whereas standardized tests assess basic or specialized academic abilities and aptitudes at one point in time without social influences." -- So one could, through review of findings, infer that females are better socializers and males are better thinkers. One could also infer that if socialization activities were no longer graded in schools, females would be much less successful and have much lower grades in school than males.

So, if your first line is implying that females are smarter than males or more educated than males, the study you are using as your reference actually shows the complete opposite. *Stereotype Warning* It actually shows that women talk more than men while men listen more than women. Thing about stereotypes is they have roots in truth.

As for increasing spending...increase spending on what? What exactly do you want to throw MORE money at and to fix what problem?
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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7/19/2015 9:07:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 11:38:42 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
This is meant to be a deep thought inducing and even self-reflective topic; it is in no way shape or form meant to be demeaning or an attack so please approach the topic with an open mind and respond with thoughtful and respectful dialog.

OK first thing is first and I will use caps lock to make this as clear as possible (sorry, not yelling just emphasizing).

WE ARE TALKING MODERNIZED, "EQUALITY" BASED CULTURES HERE, PLACES SUCH AS THOSE EMPLOYING SHARIA LAW OR OTHER BLATANT OPPRESSION SHOULD NOT BE REFERENCED OR DISCUSSED.

Living in America I am privileged enough to be submerged in a culture that holds equality and freedom well above all else; without these two Rights America would no longer exist except in name. Throughout the history of this great nation, and the development of what we today refer to as "The Western World" or "The Modern World" as a whole (includes all "Western" style nations), we have fought tirelessly to both identify and correct injustices and inequalities throughout the world; and we have made some amazing progress.

We all hear the endless and (in my humble opinion) mind numbing screams and cries these days about how sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. Americans are. These cries are so vigorously backed and magnified by media, lobbyists, individuals looking for excuses, and even people just trying to gain wealth that people not truly knowledgeable with America or its culture have this incorrect vision of America being the most bigoted nation that ever existed; run by a tightly knit circle of AARP card wielding (old), emotionless, bigoted white men sitting around an over-sized marble fireplace in high-back gold lined chairs, smoking $10,000 cigars and pipes, reading the stock ticker, drinking scotch delivered by a butler resembling father time himself, while reading the New York Times and discussing who they should put in the White House next. Truth is, in relation to the rest of the world, America has only existed for a fraction of the blink of an eye (239 years); in this short time, America has led the way in ending slavery, facilitated an environment of equality, implemented Civil Rights to protect minorities, led the women rights movement, showed the world that an omni-cultural and omni-religious nation-state could be highly successful and even lead the world; and that is just the domestic influences. Removing your biases and reviewing objectively, one could argue that America has positively changed the world in this arena.

One of the major changes implemented was Women's Rights and sexual equality to men. These days we see many feminist groups, rallies, entries in parades, TV shows, etc. boasting equality, how women don't "need" men, and even how some women have taken male influence completely out of their lives; then there are those that take it to the extreme. Question posed here is: "Have women truly become equal and begun making their own decisions?"

So let's look at common items (nouns) today that women feel are their own choice, their creation, empowering, etc. The source of the below list is actually first hand; so just in case anyone questions the source, mindset of the poster, understanding of the subject, etc. I want to make it clear this list is straight from the horses mouth. I was at a training session for my profession and recorded it for study. Unfortunately, I was toward the back of the room...and there was a feminism seminar in the large conference center across the hall. It was so loud that my recorder ended up picking up their conference just as clearly as my session. So, I was privileged to both educational seminars for one price; BOGO DEAL!!! LOL. In the session, these are 12 items the speaker noted as proof of "Female empowerment, control of men (Ex: "We designed bikinis to feel good about ourselves, not so men could gawk at us."):

1) Bikinis
2) Thongs
3) Skirts
4) Lingerie
5) Seductive dancing (including the crap at clubs I can only describe as dry humping)
6) Pole dancing (the exercise in mind)
7) Sex toys including the strap-on
8) Revealing clothing
9) Makeup
10) Small waist, large breasts, hips & a$$ body figure
11) Female celebrity's public display of sexuality
12) Increasing female presence in publications and television since the '60s (entertainment sector)

Beyonce crawling around and shaking her goods on stage and in music videos while wearing revealing clothing has nothing to do with female empowerment, that's to keep men interested. Bikinis, made by man for male attention; seductive dance, well you don't do it because you had a bad day; female presence in publications increasing, is this because women like standing around in American Flag printed bikinis eating greasy burgers so Carl's Jr is advertising to the female population? Nope, it's because they are getting the undivided attention of men watching and the men using DVR fast-forwarding through the commercials will stop and play their commercials.

So I ask you, are women truly doing things for themselves or are men still "in control" of their lives, dictating every aspect of their existence?

As with all men and all women "Under the law only" No one is equal to anyone outside of the law. To think otherwise is to be delusional.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
gabep
Posts: 82
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7/19/2015 11:28:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/18/2015 11:44:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
In academic settings women have on average achieved higher grades than their male counterparts. This applies to college, high school, junior high, etc. If anything, a greater amount of money needs to be spent on male education to eliminate this inequality.

At school, I've noticed that many males believe that it is "uncool" to try.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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7/19/2015 12:21:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 11:28:49 AM, gabep wrote:
At 7/18/2015 11:44:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
In academic settings women have on average achieved higher grades than their male counterparts. This applies to college, high school, junior high, etc. If anything, a greater amount of money needs to be spent on male education to eliminate this inequality.

At school, I've noticed that many males believe that it is "uncool" to try.

That probably contributes greatly to it, unfortunately.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
gabep
Posts: 82
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7/19/2015 5:22:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 12:21:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/19/2015 11:28:49 AM, gabep wrote:
At 7/18/2015 11:44:33 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
In academic settings women have on average achieved higher grades than their male counterparts. This applies to college, high school, junior high, etc. If anything, a greater amount of money needs to be spent on male education to eliminate this inequality.

At school, I've noticed that many males believe that it is "uncool" to try.

That probably contributes greatly to it, unfortunately.

You know there's a problem when "tryhard" is used with a negative connotation.
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,104
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7/19/2015 11:31:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/19/2015 5:22:12 PM, gabep wrote:

: You know there's a problem when "tryhard" is used with a negative connotation.

I agree, unfortunately, everybody wants to run in circles like clowns and screaming about nonsense like racism in schools instead of fixing problems.