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RFD - Homeschooling

Lexus
Posts: 169
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12/29/2015 6:24:24 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Resolved: Homeschooling is superior to the public primary school system. For my RFD, I'll go through each point 'till its completion in the debate.

FW: I'm offered no weighing mechanism so I'll just use the standard impact analysis that a lot of debates go through (pros v. cons, since there's no role of the ballot and so on)

Pro
C1. Performance
Pro (through suspect evidence) shows that homeschooled students do better in 'achievement' (whatever that may mean), because there is: higher teacher efficacy and teaching adaptability. Con shows us that the pro's evidence has been skewed, because there is such a small amount of students that are homeschooled in the nation, and because of the white skew - further, that there are more parents in homeschooled homes. I don't buy this to be an actual rebuttal of the points brought - on balance, white achievement is better than no achievement benefits, so you clinging to skewed evidence is really ... useless? Pro's response isn't very good, they just cite a study saying race gaps don't do anything or whatever ... but since the con's rebuttals don't actually have any substance behind them that actively refutes pro's first contention, I have to give it to pro (though the evidence used in the constructive is very shaky, imo).

C2. Safe environment
Lol, what? Basically, homeschools are good because public schools shame smart people and because it provides a good, safe, environment. I buy con's response saying that safety isn't necessarily good, as it doesn't prepare people for the future - preparedness is the purpose of education, homeschooling doesn't meet that purpose if con's response is correct. Pro's response is weak and doesn't contain substance ... they say "just theory" but theory is important. While con did drop the idea of freedom of choice, there's literally no active impact associated with it. This point goes to con.

C3. Familial bonds
Basically, homeschooling provides a means for cultural and religious passing down, and it provides fulfillment for parents. Con's response is weak, just saying that you can pass down differently than just homeschooling (there are many factors, he says). That doesn't even address the majority of the argument. As for religion, just saying 'indoctrination, thanks!' isn't enough to tell me that religion is important. There isn't really an impact to fulfillment for parents or culture/religion being passed down, just that parents value it, so I can't really weigh it. In end, no side gets access to this.

Con
C1. Social development only through public schooling, and making experiences with one another, so on and so on -- entirely good things, he claims. Then pro turns this entire contention with his Moore card saying that parent are the key factor to socialisation, and that being around others in order to be socialised is a myth of the modern era - and then he goes on saying that homeschoolers have unique experiences, with dancing and museums and so on and so on. I totally buy con's response to this, saying that there is no empiric study done that proves what pro is claiming here ... it might be true that pro's study is true, but the study is bunk because its not representative of all of the factors. In end, con gets access to this point.

C2. Economic benefits through teacher hiring (claiming a 5.2% of the GDP, this I buy as a big number and an important number). Pro's response isn't really that persuasive ... yeah, GDP doesn't measure everything, but it is still important. A 5.2% decrease in the economy overall is still a big impact. Salary loss and so on, con argues, is still hidden in that GDP number even if not explicitly said. I don't find pro's response very persuasive, and while I don't agree with con's use of economic models, I have to give this to con.

C3. Moral imperative. I'm not really offered anything of real substance here (in terms of impacts on the resolution). Even if this is weighed as entirely true, that we have a moral imperative to have public education, I'm given no reasons why that's an important to have. I don't even have to talk about pro's responses, because I just don't need to regard this contention at all.

Impacts
Pro: better performance within homeschooling systems.
Con: Social development, economic benefits.

In the end, I believe that having social development and economic benefits are simply bigger impacts than having better performance (however you scale that). I don't think that when we look at the implied 'on balance' clause (see my FW above) we can say that doing good on tests is more important than being a socialised person, nor is it more important than more than 5.2% of the US GDP. For these reasons, I give the win to con.
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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12/29/2015 11:18:32 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
When you adjudicate a debate, you need to ensure that you minimise the impact of your own opinion on the strength of arguments. What you are supposed to be judging is how well the opponent engaged those arguments, not if you think the arguments were good or not. If Con gives a weak and petty argument that really isn't worth the debate, but it's the only argument that Pro cedes as correct, then the resolution is effectively negated. Your RFD deals more with your own position on each sub-issue as opposed to how each debater addressed them.
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Lexus
Posts: 169
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12/29/2015 7:53:18 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
... wat. If I don't buy an argument because it isn't presented well, then I don't have to consider it.
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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12/30/2015 1:06:22 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 7:53:18 PM, Lexus wrote:
... wat. If I don't buy an argument because it isn't presented well, then I don't have to consider it.

Yes you do.
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Lexus
Posts: 169
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12/30/2015 1:12:13 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:06:22 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/29/2015 7:53:18 PM, Lexus wrote:
... wat. If I don't buy an argument because it isn't presented well, then I don't have to consider it.

Yes you do.

maybe by the fascist regime known as the DDO voting standards, but real debate RFDs don't have that insanely useless burden :^)
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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12/30/2015 1:14:21 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:12:13 AM, Lexus wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:06:22 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/29/2015 7:53:18 PM, Lexus wrote:
... wat. If I don't buy an argument because it isn't presented well, then I don't have to consider it.

Yes you do.

maybe by the fascist regime known as the DDO voting standards, but real debate RFDs don't have that insanely useless burden :^)

You're dealing with the 'fascist regime known as the DDO voting standards' here. But even if you weren't, normaly adjudicators for debates aren't allow to dismiss any argument on the account of poor presentation. If the argument is coherent, it needs to be judged objectively. The arguments you were dismissing were all coherent and legible.
Music composition contest: http://www.debate.org...
Lexus
Posts: 169
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12/30/2015 1:17:10 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:14:21 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:12:13 AM, Lexus wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:06:22 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/29/2015 7:53:18 PM, Lexus wrote:
... wat. If I don't buy an argument because it isn't presented well, then I don't have to consider it.

Yes you do.

maybe by the fascist regime known as the DDO voting standards, but real debate RFDs don't have that insanely useless burden :^)

You're dealing with the 'fascist regime known as the DDO voting standards' here. But even if you weren't, normaly adjudicators for debates aren't allow to dismiss any argument on the account of poor presentation. If the argument is coherent, it needs to be judged objectively. The arguments you were dismissing were all coherent and legible.

report my vote?
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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12/30/2015 1:19:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/30/2015 1:17:10 AM, Lexus wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:14:21 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:12:13 AM, Lexus wrote:
At 12/30/2015 1:06:22 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/29/2015 7:53:18 PM, Lexus wrote:
... wat. If I don't buy an argument because it isn't presented well, then I don't have to consider it.

Yes you do.

maybe by the fascist regime known as the DDO voting standards, but real debate RFDs don't have that insanely useless burden :^)

You're dealing with the 'fascist regime known as the DDO voting standards' here. But even if you weren't, normaly adjudicators for debates aren't allow to dismiss any argument on the account of poor presentation. If the argument is coherent, it needs to be judged objectively. The arguments you were dismissing were all coherent and legible.

report my vote?

Why? I just thought it would be more beneficial to tell you in person some specific information about adjudication that you need as a voter.
Music composition contest: http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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12/31/2015 3:05:30 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 11:18:32 AM, Smithereens wrote:
When you adjudicate a debate, you need to ensure that you minimise the impact of your own opinion on the strength of arguments. What you are supposed to be judging is how well the opponent engaged those arguments, not if you think the arguments were good or not. If Con gives a weak and petty argument that really isn't worth the debate, but it's the only argument that Pro cedes as correct, then the resolution is effectively negated. Your RFD deals more with your own position on each sub-issue as opposed to how each debater addressed them.

I would agree with this.
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