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The Objective of Modern Feminism?

Smithereens
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12/29/2015 12:09:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I had some really feminist teachers when I was in high school. One of the more radical ones used to get really worked up about the number of female CEO's in the country, but wouldn't take interest in a discussion about the child slavery crisis. This made me question exactly what feminism nowadays fights for.

The most vocal of the feminists, such as femen, cause giant stirs in disrupting and offending organised events by groups they consider 'oppressive to females.' For example, the Roman Catholic Church. Simultaneously, this church institution has been the major (along with 3 other parties) driving force behind the disruption of child labour. I would have expected the feminist movement be more interested in being the frontline of the voice to push governments into action on matters such as these, but apparently not.

I previously Identified as feminist. However the errant and hypocritical ideals that most feminists seem to spout has driven me to try find another position that consistently applies it's beliefs. I don't know what feminism is here to achieve anymore, but from what I can see, it's simply detracting much needed attention from the important issues. Imagine if every feministic campaign to free the nipple or end pop culture stereotypes instead cried for action to help those suffering injustice in the world. Maybe more awareness would exist about those topics? Idk, I don't trust feminism anymore, and I don't think you should either.
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Yassine
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12/29/2015 3:09:36 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 12:09:06 PM, Smithereens wrote:
I had some really feminist teachers when I was in high school. One of the more radical ones used to get really worked up about the number of female CEO's in the country, but wouldn't take interest in a discussion about the child slavery crisis. This made me question exactly what feminism nowadays fights for.

The most vocal of the feminists, such as femen, cause giant stirs in disrupting and offending organised events by groups they consider 'oppressive to females.' For example, the Roman Catholic Church. Simultaneously, this church institution has been the major (along with 3 other parties) driving force behind the disruption of child labour. I would have expected the feminist movement be more interested in being the frontline of the voice to push governments into action on matters such as these, but apparently not.

I previously Identified as feminist. However the errant and hypocritical ideals that most feminists seem to spout has driven me to try find another position that consistently applies it's beliefs. I don't know what feminism is here to achieve anymore, but from what I can see, it's simply detracting much needed attention from the important issues. Imagine if every feministic campaign to free the nipple or end pop culture stereotypes instead cried for action to help those suffering injustice in the world. Maybe more awareness would exist about those topics? Idk, I don't trust feminism anymore, and I don't think you should either.

- As one member has said, Feminism is made by the bourgeois, for the bourgeois. Modern Feminism is, by design, anti social justice.
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FourTrouble
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12/29/2015 9:59:26 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 12:09:06 PM, Smithereens wrote:
I had some really feminist teachers when I was in high school. One of the more radical ones used to get really worked up about the number of female CEO's in the country, but wouldn't take interest in a discussion about the child slavery crisis. This made me question exactly what feminism nowadays fights for.

I wouldn't equate feminism with your high school teachers. In my experience, they're not usually qualified to speak about feminism.

The most vocal of the feminists, such as femen, cause giant stirs in disrupting and offending organised events by groups they consider 'oppressive to females.' For example, the Roman Catholic Church. Simultaneously, this church institution has been the major (along with 3 other parties) driving force behind the disruption of child labour. I would have expected the feminist movement be more interested in being the frontline of the voice to push governments into action on matters such as these, but apparently not.

The Roman Catholic Church imposes a gender hierarchy that oppresses both men and women. That is a legitimate subject of attack by feminism. The fact that the Church also happens to oppose child slavery doesn't mean opposing the Church is bad. Nor does it mean that you support child slavery. You can oppose an institution even if that institution supports positions you agree with.

I previously Identified as feminist. However the errant and hypocritical ideals that most feminists seem to spout has driven me to try find another position that consistently applies it's beliefs. I don't know what feminism is here to achieve anymore, but from what I can see, it's simply detracting much needed attention from the important issues. Imagine if every feministic campaign to free the nipple or end pop culture stereotypes instead cried for action to help those suffering injustice in the world. Maybe more awareness would exist about those topics? Idk, I don't trust feminism anymore, and I don't think you should either.

There's no doubt that much North American feminism has drowned in triviality. It focuses almost entirely on collections of silly anecdotes about hurt feelings, when there are much more serious issues that need addressing. But that doesn't mean feminism has failed, or that you shouldn't "trust" it anymore. That misunderstands what feminism is. It's like saying "reading has failed lots of women" -- it misses the point of reading in the first place. At the end of the day, feminism isn't a person or a group of people. It's a tool that people can use to help themselves or others, just as reading is a tool that people use. It isn't always used effectively, indeed it's currently being used ineffectively, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't trust the tool -- it's a matter of changing how you wield it.
RyuuKyuzo
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12/29/2015 10:17:53 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
IMO, modern feminism in the West is an elaborate international sh*t-test (google it). Women don't actually want equality, as evidenced by the enormous spike in one's odds of divorce if the woman takes home an equal or greater salary than her husband.
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Smithereens
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12/29/2015 11:41:34 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 9:59:26 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:09:06 PM, Smithereens wrote:
I had some really feminist teachers when I was in high school. One of the more radical ones used to get really worked up about the number of female CEO's in the country, but wouldn't take interest in a discussion about the child slavery crisis. This made me question exactly what feminism nowadays fights for.

I wouldn't equate feminism with your high school teachers. In my experience, they're not usually qualified to speak about feminism.
The anecdotal evidence is not enough to compel me to believe otherwise. Many of the feminist teachers in my school (re: Literature) were highly educated, intelligent and informed.

The most vocal of the feminists, such as femen, cause giant stirs in disrupting and offending organised events by groups they consider 'oppressive to females.' For example, the Roman Catholic Church. Simultaneously, this church institution has been the major (along with 3 other parties) driving force behind the disruption of child labour. I would have expected the feminist movement be more interested in being the frontline of the voice to push governments into action on matters such as these, but apparently not.

The Roman Catholic Church imposes a gender hierarchy that oppresses both men and women. That is a legitimate subject of attack by feminism. The fact that the Church also happens to oppose child slavery doesn't mean opposing the Church is bad. Nor does it mean that you support child slavery. You can oppose an institution even if that institution supports positions you agree with.

I mean to question where the priority of attacks go. Let's assume there were only two injustices been committed in the world. The first was oppression of men and women by the church. The second is the sexual slavery and exploitation of women in the global slave trade. Feminism can choose to fight one or the other, both of them, or neither of them. Clearly, feminism has chosen to fight the first world problem and ignore the more serious matter. There is a conspicuous absence of feminists fighting slavery. It is telling that the targets of feminist attacks are the ones who combat slavery. It indicates that feminism is not interested in their stated goals of 'equality for all.' So arguing that the catholic oppressor of men and women is a valid target for feminism is flatly incorrect given they clearly aren't fighting them for 'equality for all.' This ideal is a farce.

I previously Identified as feminist. However the errant and hypocritical ideals that most feminists seem to spout has driven me to try find another position that consistently applies it's beliefs. I don't know what feminism is here to achieve anymore, but from what I can see, it's simply detracting much needed attention from the important issues. Imagine if every feministic campaign to free the nipple or end pop culture stereotypes instead cried for action to help those suffering injustice in the world. Maybe more awareness would exist about those topics? Idk, I don't trust feminism anymore, and I don't think you should either.

There's no doubt that much North American feminism has drowned in triviality. It focuses almost entirely on collections of silly anecdotes about hurt feelings, when there are much more serious issues that need addressing. But that doesn't mean feminism has failed, or that you shouldn't "trust" it anymore. That misunderstands what feminism is. It's like saying "reading has failed lots of women" -- it misses the point of reading in the first place. At the end of the day, feminism isn't a person or a group of people. It's a tool that people can use to help themselves or others, just as reading is a tool that people use. It isn't always used effectively, indeed it's currently being used ineffectively, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't trust the tool -- it's a matter of changing how you wield it.

It's very easy to misunderstand what feminism is when they argue that fart rape is a form of sexual harrasment against women https://thewaterpipe.wordpress.com...
It's also easy to misunderstand feminism when they argue that it's okay to break the law if you disagree with it (#freethenipple campaign)
Furthermore, misunderstanding feminism is inevitable when feminism vocally argues against stereotypes for women, but does not vocally object to any other stereotype for any other group.
It's also easy to misunderstand feminism when they claim they represent equality for all, but do nothing to raise awareness about the utter disaster of mental health in males and male suicide rates from depression and social anxiety.
Feminism is judged from what it appears to be. If all it argues for is the special treatment of women in first world countries, then clearly it will be understood that feminism argues for the wealth of women in first world countries.
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bballcrook21
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12/30/2015 12:22:49 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Modern feminism is perpetrated by, as Yassine said, those who face no persecution whatsoever. You can see a clear and developing trend between those who lack rights and freedoms and those who have them in abundance. It seems that these radical feminists want privilege, both social and judicial.

Their arguments are antiquated; their economic ideals that women are somehow discriminated against in the workplace is statistically incorrect, their versions of patriarchy constitute absolutely no male dominance whatsoever, etc.

Some feminists in Canada actually pulled the fire alarm in a building where there was a Men's Rights seminar going on. Sometimes when I discuss feminism, my anger gets the best of me, and in this case, as in all, every single feminist in Western society should be deported to the worst region of the Middle East - then they can finally see what real patriarchy is, not some idiocy like the one they perpetrate here.

I've never understood the wage gap debate - as in, if a woman who is less skilled, less intelligent, less experienced, and has less qualifications overall happens to make less money than a man who is better in that field, that somehow there is some injustice present. Everyone who finds that the wage gap is not a myth is committing a False Cause fallacy - as in, they find that being a male directly correlates to higher pay, rather than intelligence and skill or their ability to do the job better than women.

Don't forget how men are discriminated against though. We get practically no reprdocutive rights, men always die first in any given conflict, men are drafted into war against their will, men have to sign up and give approval to be drafted in war in order for them to vote, men get harsher and longer penalties than women do for the same crimes, men are harassed if they defend themselves physically against an attacking woman, etc. I can keep the list going.

A girl in 5th grade spat on me once, so I grabbed her and threw her halfway down the stairs. Needless to say, they got angry at me, rather than the girl.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
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12/30/2015 12:24:24 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 9:59:26 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:09:06 PM, Smithereens wrote:
I had some really feminist teachers when I was in high school. One of the more radical ones used to get really worked up about the number of female CEO's in the country, but wouldn't take interest in a discussion about the child slavery crisis. This made me question exactly what feminism nowadays fights for.

I wouldn't equate feminism with your high school teachers. In my experience, they're not usually qualified to speak about feminism.

This is an ad hominem- circumstantial. There is no objective qualification for talking about feminism; having the right to speak freely and the ability to speak at all is qualification enough for speaking about feminism.


The most vocal of the feminists, such as femen, cause giant stirs in disrupting and offending organised events by groups they consider 'oppressive to females.' For example, the Roman Catholic Church. Simultaneously, this church institution has been the major (along with 3 other parties) driving force behind the disruption of child labour. I would have expected the feminist movement be more interested in being the frontline of the voice to push governments into action on matters such as these, but apparently not.

The Roman Catholic Church imposes a gender hierarchy that oppresses both men and women. That is a legitimate subject of attack by feminism. The fact that the Church also happens to oppose child slavery doesn't mean opposing the Church is bad. Nor does it mean that you support child slavery. You can oppose an institution even if that institution supports positions you agree with.

I previously Identified as feminist. However the errant and hypocritical ideals that most feminists seem to spout has driven me to try find another position that consistently applies it's beliefs. I don't know what feminism is here to achieve anymore, but from what I can see, it's simply detracting much needed attention from the important issues. Imagine if every feministic campaign to free the nipple or end pop culture stereotypes instead cried for action to help those suffering injustice in the world. Maybe more awareness would exist about those topics? Idk, I don't trust feminism anymore, and I don't think you should either.

There's no doubt that much North American feminism has drowned in triviality. It focuses almost entirely on collections of silly anecdotes about hurt feelings, when there are much more serious issues that need addressing. But that doesn't mean feminism has failed, or that you shouldn't "trust" it anymore. That misunderstands what feminism is. It's like saying "reading has failed lots of women" -- it misses the point of reading in the first place. At the end of the day, feminism isn't a person or a group of people. It's a tool that people can use to help themselves or others, just as reading is a tool that people use. It isn't always used effectively, indeed it's currently being used ineffectively, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't trust the tool -- it's a matter of changing how you wield it.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
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12/30/2015 12:26:17 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 10:17:53 PM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
IMO, modern feminism in the West is an elaborate international sh*t-test (google it). Women don't actually want equality, as evidenced by the enormous spike in one's odds of divorce if the woman takes home an equal or greater salary than her husband.

+100000

Imagine if I had a cup that said "Women's tears" - see how many people would get angry at me. Imagine the opposite, and picture all the praise.

Feminism today is just a movement followed by lesbian retard dikes who cut their hair to male levels and color it in a light color. And they all happen to be fat, or at least most of them.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
sadolite
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12/30/2015 12:30:18 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
"The Objective of Modern Feminism?" To make a better samich i hope.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
YYW
Posts: 36,364
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12/31/2015 7:23:39 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 12:09:06 PM, Smithereens wrote:
I had some really feminist teachers when I was in high school. One of the more radical ones used to get really worked up about the number of female CEO's in the country, but wouldn't take interest in a discussion about the child slavery crisis. This made me question exactly what feminism nowadays fights for.

The most vocal of the feminists, such as femen, cause giant stirs in disrupting and offending organised events by groups they consider 'oppressive to females.' For example, the Roman Catholic Church. Simultaneously, this church institution has been the major (along with 3 other parties) driving force behind the disruption of child labour. I would have expected the feminist movement be more interested in being the frontline of the voice to push governments into action on matters such as these, but apparently not.

I previously Identified as feminist. However the errant and hypocritical ideals that most feminists seem to spout has driven me to try find another position that consistently applies it's beliefs. I don't know what feminism is here to achieve anymore, but from what I can see, it's simply detracting much needed attention from the important issues. Imagine if every feministic campaign to free the nipple or end pop culture stereotypes instead cried for action to help those suffering injustice in the world. Maybe more awareness would exist about those topics? Idk, I don't trust feminism anymore, and I don't think you should either.

Feminism is a lot like Islam in that it has a weirdly theological aspect to it (which would be reasonable to expect of Islam, but not really of ideology), and a lot of people who believe totally different things hold themselves out to the world as feminists. What are feminism's goals? How many grains of sand are there on the beach? Every feminist has their own ideal of what feminism "is" --and those ideals differ, so, feminism must be a totally incoherent ideology, right? Well... yes, but not more than any other ideology.

There are some feminists (difference feminists) who get really upset about things like the difference between women's pay and men's pay, but who at the same time ignore details like different things that individual women might want from their jobs that might be affecting (or even causing) those differences.

There are other feminists who talk about the "inherent qualities" of women, and talk about how if only women ruled the world there would be more peace and less violence and we would all get along so much better because unlike men (whose inherent qualities predispose them to violence) women are conflict-resolvers rather than conflict instigators. This kind of feminism doesn't even rise to the level of idiocy, and whenever any person starts talking about inherent qualities of genders (i.e. social constructs), you should probably not do what I do (laugh under your breath and judge whoever was dumb enough to open their mouth on the subject), but you should be very suspicious of these false prophets. These are the theology-heavy feminists, and they're among the crazies.

Then there are your run of the mill garden variety women who just want to have good opportunities for themselves and/or their daughters, who the radicals try to lump under the same umbrella of "feminism" to make their idiotic proposals (i.e. no boys should wear blue and no girls should wear pink, but everyone should wear purple to eliminate the stigma associated with inculturated gender differences) seem less idiotic.

Personally, I'd be careful identifying as a feminist because what you're typically going to get are women who really just love to tell you about how screwed up your idea of feminism is (or mine, or the president's or Ghandi's or anyone else's version of feminism which differs from theirs), and those people are really just insufferable. Like, it is nauseating to listen to them ramble on.

That's not to say that women's issues are trivial (they are not). Not to suggest that at all, but the problem is that women who get caught up in ideological debates are often the most rabid (in that they are the most hostile, argumentative, and conflict prone social justice warriors who engage in internet advocacy by polluting twitter, tumblr, and insagram), and the most impotent (in that they literally would rather argue with some troll online than get out and get their hands dirty with actual work).

Really, to even talk about feminism is pretty stupid, in the big picture. It's nice to know about (like, in the same way that knowing how to masturbate is nice to know) and sometimes pleasurable if that's something that gets your rocks off, but what actually matters is not sitting around talking about women's issues... it's getting women out to vote for politicians who are not going to do things like defund Planned Parenthood, and voting out of office those politicians who have literally been engaged in a concerted war on women (i.e. Republicans) since like forever.

But the problem is that (like pretty much every faction on the left) feminists get really compartmentalized. Like, you've got one group of people in one "school of thought" (and I use that term loosely) and another in another who differ in only trivial ways... but they never fvcking talk to each other because they just break out into arguments (i.e. bitch fits) over totally meaningless sh!t, and NEVER mobilize voters.

Ostensibly, the "objective" of modern feminism is to create the kinds of conditions where women's issues are treated seriously in society, but the reality is that feminists (the people who go around proclaiming that they are feminists, at least) are among the nastiest people to argue with, and the most predisposed to some of the nastiest form of argumentation that I have ever seen in any political group. I mean, not even non-feminist Marxists debate that rabidly amongst themselves... and all the in-group fighting over totally irrelevant sh!t (like, the theological components of feminism, or what true feminism is, or what feminism ought to look like in the 21st century, or any of that garbage) at the expense of the stuff that really affects people's lives (like Planned Parenthood).

But that's my two cents... feminists will delight in calling me a sexist bigoted male blah blah blah because they're all into name calling but short on action and impact. Like the textbook example of why modern iterations of feminism are stupid is Andrea Dworkin, and there are so many others. Too much catty in-fighting, too little political action. Too much bitching, too little work. Too much pontificating, too little laboring. Too much prosthelytizing, not enough mobilizing.

So, even though I'm sure that all the feminists are going to say things like "But YYW, you're painting feminism with too broad a brush!" --to which I'm going to respond... actually I'm not, and if you paid attention to what's going on around you, you might realize why you're not getting anywhere despite decades of efforts.

The reality is that feminism has a lot to offer: women should have opportunities, children should not starve, political and economic participation are for everyone, maternal government is good government, etc. But these bigger issues (read: the ones that matter) totally get lost in the nonsense of the in-group fighting, which is why feminism can be pretty much the butt of every politician's joke, and will continue to be for years to come.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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12/31/2015 4:16:13 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/31/2015 7:39:02 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 12/31/2015 7:23:39 AM, YYW wrote:
I swear, whenever you have an opinion, you have a thesis to go with it lol >.<

Well, in this case (feminism), there's a lot to be said about it... coming from an academic background in this kind of stuff... I'm especially likely to weigh in haha

The stories I could tell you about "feminist" grad students....
Tsar of DDO
TBR
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12/31/2015 6:40:37 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 12:09:06 PM, Smithereens wrote:
I had some really feminist teachers when I was in high school. One of the more radical ones used to get really worked up about the number of female CEO's in the country, but wouldn't take interest in a discussion about the child slavery crisis. This made me question exactly what feminism nowadays fights for.

The most vocal of the feminists, such as femen, cause giant stirs in disrupting and offending organised events by groups they consider 'oppressive to females.' For example, the Roman Catholic Church. Simultaneously, this church institution has been the major (along with 3 other parties) driving force behind the disruption of child labour. I would have expected the feminist movement be more interested in being the frontline of the voice to push governments into action on matters such as these, but apparently not.

I previously Identified as feminist. However the errant and hypocritical ideals that most feminists seem to spout has driven me to try find another position that consistently applies it's beliefs. I don't know what feminism is here to achieve anymore, but from what I can see, it's simply detracting much needed attention from the important issues. Imagine if every feministic campaign to free the nipple or end pop culture stereotypes instead cried for action to help those suffering injustice in the world. Maybe more awareness would exist about those topics? Idk, I don't trust feminism anymore, and I don't think you should either.

Why are you tiring feminism with child labor?
fromantle
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1/1/2016 9:13:52 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
We tend to veiw organisations as we do people and magnify there worst aspects.
Sam Harris the well known atheist made an excellent suggestion in his book 'The Moral Landscape' . He suggested well-being should be our yardstick of moral worth.
Of course we still have to think carefully how to apply it but perhaps it will make us less judgemental of the efforts of others.
Philocat
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1/1/2016 10:59:26 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/29/2015 9:59:26 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 12/29/2015 12:09:06 PM, Smithereens wrote:
I had some really feminist teachers when I was in high school. One of the more radical ones used to get really worked up about the number of female CEO's in the country, but wouldn't take interest in a discussion about the child slavery crisis. This made me question exactly what feminism nowadays fights for.

I wouldn't equate feminism with your high school teachers. In my experience, they're not usually qualified to speak about feminism.

The most vocal of the feminists, such as femen, cause giant stirs in disrupting and offending organised events by groups they consider 'oppressive to females.' For example, the Roman Catholic Church. Simultaneously, this church institution has been the major (along with 3 other parties) driving force behind the disruption of child labour. I would have expected the feminist movement be more interested in being the frontline of the voice to push governments into action on matters such as these, but apparently not.

The Roman Catholic Church imposes a gender hierarchy that oppresses both men and women. That is a legitimate subject of attack by feminism. The fact that the Church also happens to oppose child slavery doesn't mean opposing the Church is bad. Nor does it mean that you support child slavery. You can oppose an institution even if that institution supports positions you agree with.

I'm interested in seeing why you think the RCC 'imposes a gender hierarchy that oppresses both men and women'.


I previously Identified as feminist. However the errant and hypocritical ideals that most feminists seem to spout has driven me to try find another position that consistently applies it's beliefs. I don't know what feminism is here to achieve anymore, but from what I can see, it's simply detracting much needed attention from the important issues. Imagine if every feministic campaign to free the nipple or end pop culture stereotypes instead cried for action to help those suffering injustice in the world. Maybe more awareness would exist about those topics? Idk, I don't trust feminism anymore, and I don't think you should either.

There's no doubt that much North American feminism has drowned in triviality. It focuses almost entirely on collections of silly anecdotes about hurt feelings, when there are much more serious issues that need addressing. But that doesn't mean feminism has failed, or that you shouldn't "trust" it anymore. That misunderstands what feminism is. It's like saying "reading has failed lots of women" -- it misses the point of reading in the first place. At the end of the day, feminism isn't a person or a group of people. It's a tool that people can use to help themselves or others, just as reading is a tool that people use. It isn't always used effectively, indeed it's currently being used ineffectively, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't trust the tool -- it's a matter of changing how you wield it.

But if feminism is a tool to make women equal to men, then surely this tool is redundant in western society?
Smithereens
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1/1/2016 12:14:29 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/1/2016 9:13:52 AM, fromantle wrote:
We tend to veiw organisations as we do people and magnify there worst aspects.
Sam Harris the well known atheist made an excellent suggestion in his book 'The Moral Landscape' . He suggested well-being should be our yardstick of moral worth.
Of course we still have to think carefully how to apply it but perhaps it will make us less judgemental of the efforts of others.

The efforts of 'others' in this instance is to reshape society in a way that is not consistent with the stated beliefs and objective of the advocates for change, and is factually incorrect in most empirical regards. Some social changes ought to be resisted, such as radical islam, radical anarcho-capitalism, radical anti-islam (Trump), radical Christianity for that matter, radical feminism and radical most things.
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fromantle
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1/1/2016 3:00:36 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Many organisations have benefits and disadvanges; the press would be a fine example;
they expose hypocracy but preach a particular political veiw.
Religion comes in this catogory ; much good is achieved by religious people and yet a few are radicalised. I catogorise feminism in the same class; it has emacipated women but also judged other womens groups and condemned those women who want to go their own way.
Let's trust old Sam and look for the well being of others in all our judgements as dealings.
When religious belief or ideology in a group or an individual is reveranced above humanity then there is always a danger of terrorism.