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The Road to Hell is Paved with Stupid

EndarkenedRationalist
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1/26/2016 10:04:35 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
A popular quote states that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It's frequently utilized as a riposte to someone explaining how they only has the best of intentions when committing an action frequently deemed immoral or illegal.

This quote is dumb, but let's assume it's true. Okay, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You're right. Only evil intentions for me from here on.
sadolite
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1/27/2016 3:23:21 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:04:35 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
A popular quote states that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It's frequently utilized as a riposte to someone explaining how they only has the best of intentions when committing an action frequently deemed immoral or illegal.

This quote is dumb, but let's assume it's true. Okay, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You're right. Only evil intentions for me from here on.

See when you have evil intentions you have to think about the unintended consequences as they may affect you or someone you don't want to affect, but when you have good intentions you don't even consider the unintended consequences thus imposing heinous evil on everyone. If you want to hurt tens, hundreds, thousands or even millions of people have good intentions. If you want to hurt an individual have evil intentions.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
EndarkenedRationalist
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1/27/2016 9:33:44 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 3:23:21 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/26/2016 10:04:35 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
A popular quote states that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It's frequently utilized as a riposte to someone explaining how they only has the best of intentions when committing an action frequently deemed immoral or illegal.

This quote is dumb, but let's assume it's true. Okay, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You're right. Only evil intentions for me from here on.

See when you have evil intentions you have to think about the unintended consequences as they may affect you or someone you don't want to affect, but when you have good intentions you don't even consider the unintended consequences thus imposing heinous evil on everyone. If you want to hurt tens, hundreds, thousands or even millions of people have good intentions. If you want to hurt an individual have evil intentions.

If you have evil intentions, you don't care what harm will result from your actions.
PetersSmith
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1/27/2016 2:24:40 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:04:35 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
A popular quote states that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It's frequently utilized as a riposte to someone explaining how they only has the best of intentions when committing an action frequently deemed immoral or illegal.

This quote is dumb, but let's assume it's true. Okay, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You're right. Only evil intentions for me from here on.

The quote is dumb because it's inherently false. We all know it's a "highway", not a "road" to hell.
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sadolite
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1/27/2016 9:57:47 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 9:33:44 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/27/2016 3:23:21 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/26/2016 10:04:35 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
A popular quote states that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It's frequently utilized as a riposte to someone explaining how they only has the best of intentions when committing an action frequently deemed immoral or illegal.

This quote is dumb, but let's assume it's true. Okay, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You're right. Only evil intentions for me from here on.

See when you have evil intentions you have to think about the unintended consequences as they may affect you or someone you don't want to affect, but when you have good intentions you don't even consider the unintended consequences thus imposing heinous evil on everyone. If you want to hurt tens, hundreds, thousands or even millions of people have good intentions. If you want to hurt an individual have evil intentions.

If you have evil intentions, you don't care what harm will result from your actions.

Ya you do, You care about what happens to yourself. People with good intentions will cut their nose off despite their own face. A person with evil intentions almost always has something to gain personally by them. Thus thinks about the unintended consequences that may affect them.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/27/2016 10:01:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 9:57:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:33:44 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/27/2016 3:23:21 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/26/2016 10:04:35 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
A popular quote states that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It's frequently utilized as a riposte to someone explaining how they only has the best of intentions when committing an action frequently deemed immoral or illegal.

This quote is dumb, but let's assume it's true. Okay, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You're right. Only evil intentions for me from here on.

See when you have evil intentions you have to think about the unintended consequences as they may affect you or someone you don't want to affect, but when you have good intentions you don't even consider the unintended consequences thus imposing heinous evil on everyone. If you want to hurt tens, hundreds, thousands or even millions of people have good intentions. If you want to hurt an individual have evil intentions.

If you have evil intentions, you don't care what harm will result from your actions.

Ya you do, You care about what happens to yourself. People with good intentions will cut their nose off despite their own face. A person with evil intentions almost always has something to gain personally by them. Thus thinks about the unintended consequences that may affect them.

People with good intentions will cut off their nose if it benefits them or if it benefits a larger collective. People with evil intentions will do it only if it benefits them. People with good intentions will never commit an evil act, like blowing up a hospital, unless they believe it will save society as a whole (like if a zombie apocalypse started in the hospital). People with evil intentions will blow up a normal hospital full of people just because.
EndarkenedRationalist
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1/27/2016 10:01:31 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 2:24:40 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 1/26/2016 10:04:35 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
A popular quote states that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It's frequently utilized as a riposte to someone explaining how they only has the best of intentions when committing an action frequently deemed immoral or illegal.

This quote is dumb, but let's assume it's true. Okay, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You're right. Only evil intentions for me from here on.

The quote is dumb because it's inherently false. We all know it's a "highway", not a "road" to hell.

Lol.
Buddamoose
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1/28/2016 4:34:45 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Well, I would disagree that it's a bad quote. It's quite true in day to day activity and interactions with others. What is basically boils down to is a few things:

1) That ones intentions in life, matter very little, its the result that matters. It's a hard truth to swallow, but it is really how a majority of people operate, and how majority of things are perceived. By their result, not what was intended.

2) Sadolite, somewhat inarticulately brought this up as well. When somebody has good intentions at the core of what they are doing, they are less likely to factor in unintended consequences. It's because they intend an end result that is good, and being of a noble purpose, we often fool ourselves into thinking that bad things can't happen when we act with good intentions. When, oftentimes in life, because we as people are obviously imperfect, and cannot predict the future, what starts out with good intentions, has horrid consequences that outweigh the original goodly end result.

3) Its also a warning against a "the ends justify the means" mentality. This is untrue and a dire way to operate in life, as most sane people imho, can agree. If you have to do some sh!tty stuff to get a good thing accomplished, that good thing very well might not be worth it.

Basically, its a warning, not against good intentions, but that intentions dont matter, how we are ultimately judged is upon the results of our actions.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
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1/28/2016 4:41:05 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
When it comes to adages, its honestly foolish to take them literally/semi-literally. A majority of adages aren't literal.

Take for example some other adages that are often misused/misunderstood

- Blood is thicker than water

This is used as a way to say that the bond of family is stronger than friendship. When actually. The full adage is, "the blood of the covenant, is thicker than the water of the womb."

Translated as, the relationships we form by choice, will generally be stronger than those that are forced.

"Curiosity killed the car"

An adage that mainly gets used as a word of caution against the innately over-curious and experimental, to be careful. Cool, not a bad message, but the whole phrase is actually,

"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back."

Which completely changes the meaning to one that absolutely says curiosity is a good thing, it may be dangerous, but it is satisfying to explore ones curiosities.

There are a whole lot more, but I think you get the point
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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1/28/2016 10:44:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:01:07 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:57:47 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:33:44 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/27/2016 3:23:21 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 1/26/2016 10:04:35 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
A popular quote states that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It's frequently utilized as a riposte to someone explaining how they only has the best of intentions when committing an action frequently deemed immoral or illegal.

This quote is dumb, but let's assume it's true. Okay, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You're right. Only evil intentions for me from here on.

See when you have evil intentions you have to think about the unintended consequences as they may affect you or someone you don't want to affect, but when you have good intentions you don't even consider the unintended consequences thus imposing heinous evil on everyone. If you want to hurt tens, hundreds, thousands or even millions of people have good intentions. If you want to hurt an individual have evil intentions.

If you have evil intentions, you don't care what harm will result from your actions.

Ya you do, You care about what happens to yourself. People with good intentions will cut their nose off despite their own face. A person with evil intentions almost always has something to gain personally by them. Thus thinks about the unintended consequences that may affect them.

People with good intentions will cut off their nose if it benefits them or if it benefits a larger collective. People with evil intentions will do it only if it benefits them. People with good intentions will never commit an evil act, like blowing up a hospital, unless they believe it will save society as a whole (like if a zombie apocalypse started in the hospital). People with evil intentions will blow up a normal hospital full of people just because.

"People with good intentions will cut off their nose if it benefits them or if it benefits a larger collective. "

Ah yes, the "collective" More people have been slaughtered and murdered to benefit the "collective" than all the wars combined since the beginning of time. But their intentions were good.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/28/2016 10:52:23 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 4:34:45 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
Well, I would disagree that it's a bad quote. It's quite true in day to day activity and interactions with others. What is basically boils down to is a few things:

1) That ones intentions in life, matter very little, its the result that matters. It's a hard truth to swallow, but it is really how a majority of people operate, and how majority of things are perceived. By their result, not what was intended.

2) Sadolite, somewhat inarticulately brought this up as well. When somebody has good intentions at the core of what they are doing, they are less likely to factor in unintended consequences. It's because they intend an end result that is good, and being of a noble purpose, we often fool ourselves into thinking that bad things can't happen when we act with good intentions. When, oftentimes in life, because we as people are obviously imperfect, and cannot predict the future, what starts out with good intentions, has horrid consequences that outweigh the original goodly end result.

It's really as simple as this: it is worse to actively desire and then commit murder than it is to speed through a red light to take your wife in labor to the hospital and accidentally run someone over - an unintended consequence. Both cases are murder, morally speaking, but only one of them is 'evil'

3) Its also a warning against a "the ends justify the means" mentality. This is untrue and a dire way to operate in life, as most sane people imho, can agree. If you have to do some sh!tty stuff to get a good thing accomplished, that good thing very well might not be worth it.

That's a matter of opinion.

Basically, its a warning, not against good intentions, but that intentions dont matter, how we are ultimately judged is upon the results of our actions.
Wylted
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1/28/2016 10:54:28 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I think the point is that intentions aren't what matters, not thay you should have evil intentions.
Wylted
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1/28/2016 10:56:37 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 4:41:05 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
When it comes to adages, its honestly foolish to take them literally/semi-literally. A majority of adages aren't literal.

Take for example some other adages that are often misused/misunderstood

- Blood is thicker than water

This is used as a way to say that the bond of family is stronger than friendship. When actually. The full adage is, "the blood of the covenant, is thicker than the water of the womb."

Translated as, the relationships we form by choice, will generally be stronger than those that are forced.

"Curiosity killed the car"

An adage that mainly gets used as a word of caution against the innately over-curious and experimental, to be careful. Cool, not a bad message, but the whole phrase is actually,

"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back."

Which completely changes the meaning to one that absolutely says curiosity is a good thing, it may be dangerous, but it is satisfying to explore ones curiosities.

There are a whole lot more, but I think you get the point

You must be on cracked.com as often as I am.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/28/2016 10:57:49 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 10:54:28 PM, Wylted wrote:
I think the point is that intentions aren't what matters, not thay you should have evil intentions.

The reason that fails is because it's impossible not to have intentions. Even if something unintended happens, it was birthed from something which was intended. If you just say 'fvck intentions,' then you might as well adopt evil ones, since you no longer care about the meaning of your actions.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/28/2016 10:59:31 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 4:41:05 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
When it comes to adages, its honestly foolish to take them literally/semi-literally. A majority of adages aren't literal.

Take for example some other adages that are often misused/misunderstood

- Blood is thicker than water

This is used as a way to say that the bond of family is stronger than friendship. When actually. The full adage is, "the blood of the covenant, is thicker than the water of the womb."

Translated as, the relationships we form by choice, will generally be stronger than those that are forced.

"Curiosity killed the car"

An adage that mainly gets used as a word of caution against the innately over-curious and experimental, to be careful. Cool, not a bad message, but the whole phrase is actually,

"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back."

Which completely changes the meaning to one that absolutely says curiosity is a good thing, it may be dangerous, but it is satisfying to explore ones curiosities.

There are a whole lot more, but I think you get the point

This is an aphorism, not an adage or idiom.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/28/2016 11:02:49 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 10:57:49 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/28/2016 10:54:28 PM, Wylted wrote:
I think the point is that intentions aren't what matters, not thay you should have evil intentions.

The reason that fails is because it's impossible not to have intentions. Even if something unintended happens, it was birthed from something which was intended. If you just say 'fvck intentions,' then you might as well adopt evil ones, since you no longer care about the meaning of your actions.

I guess, but you're digging too deep. It is intended to get people to think about their actions. Giving the heroin addict on the corner has the good intention of providing him money to ear with, but has the negative effect of enabling his problem. The saying isn't that you should stop having good intentions, but you should think about the consequences.
Buddamoose
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1/28/2016 11:04:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
First off, thank you for correcting my mislabeling.

But, Endark, you are honestly being obtuse. It isn't saying we should act without intention. It's saying how we are judged is by the results of our actions, not what we intended when we acted.

Again, results > intentions. As in, you can have good intentions, but still have a bad result. And congrats, if it has a bad result, you're not a good person, even though you had good intentions. Cause again, intentions don't matter, in terms of how we are ultimately judged.

This is how people operate, you may disagree, but it has always been how a majority of people operate, and will continue to operate. Very few people care how nice you are, and what not. All they care about is what you can do.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/28/2016 11:08:35 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 11:04:55 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
First off, thank you for correcting my mislabeling.

But, Endark, you are honestly being obtuse. It isn't saying we should act without intention. It's saying how we are judged is by the results of our actions, not what we intended when we acted.

I'm too a-cute to be obtuse.

But that's not always true, is it? Premeditated murder is punished harsher than 'spontaneous' murder.

Again, results > intentions. As in, you can have good intentions, but still have a bad result. And congrats, if it has a bad result, you're not a good person, even though you had good intentions. Cause again, intentions don't matter, in terms of how we are ultimately judged.

In what sense? Legally? Morally? Who decides what a bad result is? If X kills bystander Y to save A, B, and C, is that bad? He saved 3 people. Who decides?

This is how people operate, you may disagree, but it has always been how a majority of people operate, and will continue to operate. Very few people care how nice you are, and what not. All they care about is what you can do.
Buddamoose
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1/28/2016 11:10:30 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Perfect example ripped straight from the venerable Joh ln Cheese of Cracked.com, paraphrased of course.

Imagine you and a loved one are walking down the street. You're loved one collapses of a heart attack, so you call out for help, a doctor, someone who knows CPR, anything that can help. A man comes rushing up,

"Oh thank god, are you a doctor? Do you know CPR?"

And he goes, "no, but I'm nice guy, and I want to hell"

To which you would probably go, "I DONT CARE I NEED A DOCTOR OR SOMEONE THAT KNOWS CPR, FIND SOMEONE"
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
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1/28/2016 11:13:54 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 11:08:35 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

But that's not always true, is it? Premeditated murder is punished harsher than 'spontaneous' murder.

But its still punished, and you're still cobsidered a murderer. This isn't a legal saying, this isn't a moral saying, this is a saying regarding how people operate behaviorally.

Again, results > intentions. As in, you can have good intentions, but still have a bad result. And congrats, if it has a bad result, you're not a good person, even though you had good intentions. Cause again, intentions don't matter, in terms of how we are ultimately judged.

In what sense? Legally? Morally? Who decides what a bad result is? If X kills bystander Y to save A, B, and C, is that bad? He saved 3 people. Who decides?

None of them, its in the sense of how people will perceive you. If you killed Y to save A, B, and C. Many people would probably be like, you saved those three people! How great of you, but there would be those people that would go, "but you killed Y!" People don't operate on an objective/legal thought out basis man. They operate mainly on emotion and irrationality.

This is how people operate, you may disagree, but it has always been how a majority of people operate, and will continue to operate. Very few people care how nice you are, and what not. All they care about is what you can do.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/28/2016 11:17:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 11:13:54 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 1/28/2016 11:08:35 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

But that's not always true, is it? Premeditated murder is punished harsher than 'spontaneous' murder.

But its still punished, and you're still cobsidered a murderer. This isn't a legal saying, this isn't a moral saying, this is a saying regarding how people operate behaviorally.

Again, results > intentions. As in, you can have good intentions, but still have a bad result. And congrats, if it has a bad result, you're not a good person, even though you had good intentions. Cause again, intentions don't matter, in terms of how we are ultimately judged.

In what sense? Legally? Morally? Who decides what a bad result is? If X kills bystander Y to save A, B, and C, is that bad? He saved 3 people. Who decides?

None of them, its in the sense of how people will perceive you. If you killed Y to save A, B, and C. Many people would probably be like, you saved those three people! How great of you, but there would be those people that would go, "but you killed Y!" People don't operate on an objective/legal thought out basis man. They operate mainly on emotion and irrationality.

Which is the phrase itself is irrational.

This is how people operate, you may disagree, but it has always been how a majority of people operate, and will continue to operate. Very few people care how nice you are, and what not. All they care about is what you can do.
Buddamoose
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1/28/2016 11:20:02 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
No, the phrase isn't irrational, its an observation that is applicable to the irrationality of most people.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
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1/28/2016 11:22:19 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
What's a key part of a rational conclusion Endark? Applicability to reality, ergo, practicality. If one creates a truism that requires people to operate at a vastly different level then they have or are currently operating, there's a good chance it isn't practical.

In this sense, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" is a rational observation on how we are judged by others.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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1/28/2016 11:24:42 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Again. It's a tough pill to swallow, that most other people don't care what our intentions are. They don't care how nice we are. They don't care if we're good people at heart. All they care about is what we can do for them, what can we provide to them, what results do our actions have, and the like.

It sucks, but its how the world operates. Should it? Nah a rational person wishes it didnt, but wish in one hand and sh!t in the other, and see which one fills up first.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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1/28/2016 11:27:27 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 11:24:42 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Again. It's a tough pill to swallow, that most other people don't care what our intentions are. They don't care how nice we are. They don't care if we're good people at heart. All they care about is what we can do for them, what can we provide to them, what results do our actions have, and the like.

You sure like adding a bunch of posts without telling me, don't you?

It sucks, but its how the world operates. Should it? Nah a rational person wishes it didnt, but wish in one hand and sh!t in the other, and see which one fills up first.

Why should we accept this status quo? Are we not human? Are we not capable of better? Lead by example. Be the change.
Buddamoose
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1/28/2016 11:29:04 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 11:27:27 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

Why should we accept this status quo? Are we not human? Are we not capable of better? Lead by example. Be the change.

I admire your optimism to say the least
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
EndarkenedRationalist
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1/28/2016 11:30:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 11:29:04 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 1/28/2016 11:27:27 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:

Why should we accept this status quo? Are we not human? Are we not capable of better? Lead by example. Be the change.

I admire your optimism to say the least

Thank you.