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A miscellaneous thought with no purpose

FourTrouble
Posts: 12,777
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5/20/2016 7:16:51 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
Just because there's an argument to be made for both sides of an issues doesn't mean both sides are right...

After all, most arguments that appear reasonable actually have no merit...

But still, we must be wary of confirmation bias...

So it's like a catch 22, or something.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/20/2016 7:20:04 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 7:16:51 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Just because there's an argument to be made for both sides of an issues doesn't mean both sides are right...

After all, most arguments that appear reasonable actually have no merit...

But still, we must be wary of confirmation bias...

So it's like a catch 22, or something.
What is confirmation bias?
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,777
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5/20/2016 7:22:58 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 7:20:04 AM, Emmarie wrote:
What is confirmation bias?

It's, like, wen you make the evidence fit your beliefs... like, interpreting things in a way that confirms your beliefs.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/20/2016 7:25:39 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 7:22:58 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
At 5/20/2016 7:20:04 AM, Emmarie wrote:
What is confirmation bias?

It's, like, wen you make the evidence fit your beliefs... like, interpreting things in a way that confirms your beliefs.

There's nothing wrong with that, if evidence backs up your claim. Not all of us aspire to be Lawyers.
tejretics
Posts: 6,094
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5/20/2016 12:16:06 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 7:25:39 AM, Emmarie wrote:
There's nothing wrong with that, if evidence backs up your claim. Not all of us aspire to be Lawyers.

It's more like, believing something first and then interpreting results to be evidence for that belief when it isn't necessarily so.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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5/20/2016 12:46:43 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 7:16:51 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Just because there's an argument to be made for both sides of an issues doesn't mean both sides are right...

After all, most arguments that appear reasonable actually have no merit...

But still, we must be wary of confirmation bias...

So it's like a catch 22, or something.

Thought back at ya.
How great is that word , miscellaneous, ?
Say it with me.
Ready . MISCELLANEOUS. That's a 5 syllables Misc / ell / an / e /ous.
That's a great word right there. It's Hands down, the best forum name .
Hey ! Here's something for you to do. A challenge if you like.
Use the great word miscellaneous, in talk with 3 different people today.
I'm taking up the challenge and have just said it to 2 people. They suspect nothing.
Good game, good game.
MISCELLANEOUS.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/20/2016 3:14:14 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 12:16:06 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/20/2016 7:25:39 AM, Emmarie wrote:
There's nothing wrong with that, if evidence backs up your claim. Not all of us aspire to be Lawyers.

It's more like, believing something first and then interpreting results to be evidence for that belief when it isn't necessarily so.

I disagree. It's more like believing something and finding evidence to back up a claim, and then presenting the facts to be refuted in a debate.

No wonder debates on this website lack so much passion, that no one wants to read then, of vote on them. The members who value winning on technicalities, (many who aspire to become attorneys) think that a debate is only credible if the debaters are arguing facts that are objective as far as there individual thoughts and beliefs are concerned.

The purpose modern debate, from what I can gather, is to make a claim and back it up with evidence or persuasive measures, and weigh it against an opponent who attempts to refute the evidence and/or make counter claims using persuasive measures.
^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^.^
These are the qualities of debates (that are over a year old) that I've read on DDO, that are now lacking.
tejretics
Posts: 6,094
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5/20/2016 3:20:09 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 3:14:14 PM, Emmarie wrote:

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. Confirmation bias isn't a debate term. I'll give you an example. A scientist wants to analyze -- with their own sample -- if same-sex parenting is as good as opposite-sex parenting. A good scientist doesn't have biases; they would operate by creating a procedure and noting observations. But sometimes, a scientist might subconsciously be homophobic, in which case they might interpret the conclusion in the wrong way to suit that belief.

That's exactly what happened with a researcher called Mark Regnerus. He published a study re: same-sex parenting, and took samples of people who had witnessed their parents engaging in a same-sex relationship and found that many of them had turned out bad. But his conclusion: "Same-sex parenting is net harmful." The study wasn't even about same-sex parenting ~ it was about a parent engaging in a brief same-sex relationship. Regnerus -- subconsciously -- didn't consider those factors [indeed, only two subjects of his study had been *raised* by same-sex *parents* and they both turned out fine]. So his representation of the conclusion was subconsciously plagued by preexisting biases.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/20/2016 3:35:30 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 3:20:09 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/20/2016 3:14:14 PM, Emmarie wrote:

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. Confirmation bias isn't a debate term. I'll give you an example. A scientist wants to analyze -- with their own sample -- if same-sex parenting is as good as opposite-sex parenting. A good scientist doesn't have biases; they would operate by creating a procedure and noting observations. But sometimes, a scientist might subconsciously be homophobic, in which case they might interpret the conclusion in the wrong way to suit that belief.

That's exactly what happened with a researcher called Mark Regnerus. He published a study re: same-sex parenting, and took samples of people who had witnessed their parents engaging in a same-sex relationship and found that many of them had turned out bad. But his conclusion: "Same-sex parenting is net harmful." The study wasn't even about same-sex parenting ~ it was about a parent engaging in a brief same-sex relationship. Regnerus -- subconsciously -- didn't consider those factors [indeed, only two subjects of his study had been *raised* by same-sex *parents* and they both turned out fine]. So his representation of the conclusion was subconsciously plagued by preexisting biases.

Ok, and yes I agree with your example of confirmation bias. I apologize for going on the "defensive," I thought this post may have been referring to the content and motivation of debates on DDO. lol :)

Confirmation validation does hold validity in the kinds of topics that you are citing (formal and for official reasons), but not necessarily in novice debates where the object is only to present information and claims to balance against opposition, on a small, independent scale.
Peepette
Posts: 1,242
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5/20/2016 3:59:23 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
I think you may be speaking of the fear of Cognitive Dissonance that creates bias. We always look to affirm our beliefs and will seek facts to that end. It's when these facts don't align is when we become mentally uncomfortable. Our willingness to alter our bias to become more knowledgeable or to switch a stance is the mental difficulty we fear. Some people will adjust their view or belief, others will remain entrenched no matter what evidence is presented.
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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5/21/2016 10:03:41 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 7:20:04 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/20/2016 7:16:51 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Just because there's an argument to be made for both sides of an issues doesn't mean both sides are right...

After all, most arguments that appear reasonable actually have no merit...

But still, we must be wary of confirmation bias...

So it's like a catch 22, or something.
What is confirmation bias?

Use global warming /climate change or what ever they (So called science) is calling it now. You are taught in school that global warming is caused by man. So you look for sources to confirm your confirmation bias and reject all other sources without reading them or giving them any merit using completely unscientific methods such as politics political correctness big oil big money but never address the contradicting evidence.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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5/21/2016 11:23:35 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Confirmation bias is why most foreign propaganda is targeted at academics. Smart people more easily fall into the trap of confirmation bias because of their ability to make better arguments than anyone around them. They spend more time defending their positions against idiots than they do attacking their positions.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/23/2016 2:11:25 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 10:03:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 5/20/2016 7:20:04 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/20/2016 7:16:51 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Just because there's an argument to be made for both sides of an issues doesn't mean both sides are right...

After all, most arguments that appear reasonable actually have no merit...

But still, we must be wary of confirmation bias...

So it's like a catch 22, or something.
What is confirmation bias?

Use global warming /climate change or what ever they (So called science) is calling it now. You are taught in school that global warming is caused by man. So you look for sources to confirm your confirmation bias and reject all other sources without reading them or giving them any merit using completely unscientific methods such as politics political correctness big oil big money but never address the contradicting evidence.

I don't believe in global warming either, but I do believe they are experimenting with weather modification, "global warming" being the excuse, but really it is going to be for population control, when they perfect it. [http://www.weathermodification.com...][http://www.bloomberg.com...]
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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5/23/2016 2:19:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/23/2016 2:11:25 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/21/2016 10:03:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 5/20/2016 7:20:04 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/20/2016 7:16:51 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Just because there's an argument to be made for both sides of an issues doesn't mean both sides are right...

After all, most arguments that appear reasonable actually have no merit...

But still, we must be wary of confirmation bias...

So it's like a catch 22, or something.
What is confirmation bias?

Use global warming /climate change or what ever they (So called science) is calling it now. You are taught in school that global warming is caused by man. So you look for sources to confirm your confirmation bias and reject all other sources without reading them or giving them any merit using completely unscientific methods such as politics political correctness big oil big money but never address the contradicting evidence.

I don't believe in global warming either, but I do believe they are experimenting with weather modification, "global warming" being the excuse, but really it is going to be for population control, when they perfect it. [http://www.weathermodification.com...][http://www.bloomberg.com...]

Everything govt does without exception is about control. It never has and never will be about promoting self reliance and individuality.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/23/2016 2:39:31 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/23/2016 2:19:54 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 5/23/2016 2:11:25 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/21/2016 10:03:41 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 5/20/2016 7:20:04 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/20/2016 7:16:51 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
Just because there's an argument to be made for both sides of an issues doesn't mean both sides are right...

After all, most arguments that appear reasonable actually have no merit...

But still, we must be wary of confirmation bias...

So it's like a catch 22, or something.
What is confirmation bias?

Use global warming /climate change or what ever they (So called science) is calling it now. You are taught in school that global warming is caused by man. So you look for sources to confirm your confirmation bias and reject all other sources without reading them or giving them any merit using completely unscientific methods such as politics political correctness big oil big money but never address the contradicting evidence.

I don't believe in global warming either, but I do believe they are experimenting with weather modification, "global warming" being the excuse, but really it is going to be for population control, when they perfect it. [http://www.weathermodification.com...][http://www.bloomberg.com...]

Everything govt does without exception is about control. It never has and never will be about promoting self reliance and individuality.

Sad but true.